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Post by abefroman1 on Sept 22, 2020 12:46:12 GMT -5
I admit I didn't really follow politics until 2014 but when was RBG supppsed to retire? 2009? 2011? The senate was lost way before the threat of trump began to take shape.
I admit I didn't really follow politics until 2014 but when was RBG supppsed to retire? 2009? 2011? The senate was lost way before the threat of trump began to take shape.
Uh. Sotomayor was confirmed by the Senate in 2009. Kagan in 2010. Any time between 2008-2014 would have been nice.
I admit I didn't really follow politics until 2014 but when was RBG supppsed to retire? 2009? 2011? The senate was lost way before the threat of trump began to take shape.
Anytime between her pancreatic cancer diagnosis in 2009 (Her second cancer diagnosis) (Take a look at the 5-year survival rates for pancreatic cancer for ) and 2014, when it was pretty much a known quantity that the senate would be lost later that year, would have been just fine and dandy
Quick question, jakicker, what are some of your favorite RBG civil rights accomplishments? She's a beloved icon in that field, so you shouldn't need to use google. Writing some sassy dissents and hiring one black clerk in 30+ years?
I don’t entirely understand the attacks on RBG. Should she have called it quits years ago? Probably. Is she to blame for our current predicament? Maybe a little in that she didn’t entirely read the room well but hindsight is 20/20. I place the blame more on the Republican Party putting party above country for the last 40 years much much much more. Like it’s not even close.
I don’t entirely understand the attacks on RBG. Should she have called it quits years ago? Probably. Is she to blame for our current predicament? Maybe a little in that she didn’t entirely read the room well but hindsight is 20/20. I place the blame more on the Republican Party putting party above country for the last 40 years much much much more. Like it’s not even close.
I don’t entirely understand the attacks on RBG. Should she have called it quits years ago? Probably. Is she to blame for our current predicament? Maybe a little in that she didn’t entirely read the room well but hindsight is 20/20. I place the blame more on the Republican Party putting party above country for the last 40 years much much much more. Like it’s not even close.
No one here is defending the republicans
I wasn’t saying anyone was. I just think people might have some misplaced anger towards her. She pushed America towards progress more than most if not all of us will ever get close to. She didn’t predict that America would literally elect a fascist. I’m not gonna get upset about her unwillingness to back off from fighting what she believed in days after she died after giving it a more honest try than 99% of federal employees.
I wasn’t saying anyone was. I just think people might have some misplaced anger towards her. She pushed America towards progress more than most if not all of us will ever get close to. She didn’t predict that America would literally elect a fascist. I’m not gonna get upset about her unwillingness to back off from fighting what she believed in days after she died after giving it a more honest try than 99% of federal employees.
I do not have anger toward her. However, based on the previous 3 decades, it was certainly predictable before the rise of the fascist that the presidency would change parties following two terms of a Democrat president. Between the years 2008-14, her ages were 75-81 with well-publicized serious health problems. I was puzzled by her decision then, and we now find ourselves in a nightmare scenario. It does not take away from who she was as a jurist, but she is not blameless in this nightmare scenario.
I understand why the Republicans are unaffected by being called hypocrites, it is a huge victory for them with prolonged ramifications.
Post by JustKillingTime on Sept 22, 2020 15:27:14 GMT -5
maybe republicans view ramming thru a SC nom before the election and ignoring covid relief bills, police reform bills, election safety bills and almost certainly losing the presidency, the house, and possibly the senate is a fair trade. there will be more elections, but a new SC justice will hold power for 30-40 years.
Idk I'm really just feeling like this is going to play out like Gore v Bush, and it's going to go to a 5-3 court, so all the grandstanding about "quivering our arrows" will mean absolutely nothing because bidens going to lose because they're going to be able to cheat a handful of districts and send it to a stacked court.
Through and through, the Democrats are a capitalist party. Rather than pass M4A, cut military budgets, actually do something which will support the 99% - they'll just be cowards or side with Republicans outright. The Dem establishment wants to get in on the money flow from corporations, Wall St, and the elites too.
Was just reading about how many civil rights laws were passed by congress in the 1870s but struck down in the 1880s. And how a lot of what happened in the 1950s and 60s (80 years later...) was just making back ground that was lost decades earlier. Seems relevant.
I was listening to the 5-4 podcast on Qualified Immunity this weekend and this stood out to me as well. In those days, the federal government understood that not only were organizations like the KKK a major issue, but so were the law enforcement agencies. It gave me some *big thoughts* about how much the United States actually has regressed politically in the past 150 years. In the 1860s it was not uncommon for terms like "wage slavery" to be used, etc. Chomsky has said before, and this is definitely something that I need to investigate further, even just out of curiosity, that the American press at that time was essentially the freest press in the history of the world. Now it seems we have one of the most captured, and look where it's gotten us.
It's actually amazing how fucking owned the Democrats have been the last decade. How can anyone have faith in this shit anymore?
You're nearly a laugh but you're really a cry
This is really on one person, though, and that's Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Obama tried to get her to resign, and I think the only critique you have of that is that he worked hard enough to make her life miserable enough to make her quit. A famously stubborn person making an incredibly selfish decision that is going to affect the lives of millions. The fact that people are celebrating her right now makes me sick.
Well, after Republican voters I would put much more fault on the DNC and Clinton's campaign for losing to an insane carnival barker. Although, as I've said, the sad strategic move for RBG was to retire sometime after getting diagnosed with one of the most dangerous cancers. But it's not just that. It's considering the shifting of power which would be a risk well before Trump, etc.
Some folks in this thread seem to treat Trump as unique in this moment. He's not, any Republican would jump at the chance to take over the Supreme Court. Him making the decision is bad but I'm not sure it's all that worse than anyone else in the GOP. The Federalist Society has only grown in influence after all. I think what makes Trump different is his goldfish brain and how easy he is to lead around. Probably worse then W in that aspect? But even then we are just talking about hardcore GOP folks in the Federalist Society getting there way. It's shit all the way down.
Regardless, this moment is the culmination of many failures of a party that is far to caught up in corporate money and fence riding. That's when it's not outright working within the same economic and foreign policy framework as the GOP. At the end of the day people really got to stop pointing out how bad the opposition is and wonder how the fuck the Libs manage to lose out to them over and over. Just screaming VOTE at people is clearly not convincing enough.
The Republican Party is the most dangerous organization to ever exist in the history of the world.
This did not suddenly become the case with Donald Trump. This has been the case since Ronald Reagan, but probably goes back to at least Nixon. Basically, this has been true for most people here's entire lives.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg was appointed in 1993, so that goes for her entire Supreme Court tenure, plus another three or more presidential terms. Her failure to recognize this is an earned stain on an otherwise important and honorable legacy in championing women's rights, labor rights, and so on. It arguably erases all of it.
She felt that no one was capable of replacing her, because she thought she was just that important and talented. That is a hubris that has now damned hundreds millions of people, and, I really hope that I'm being dramatic and wrong, possibly the entire planet. Everything she accomplished will likely be wiped out by her replacement, and that is at least in part her fault.
Stephen Breyer also fucked up and fuck him too. God willing, Biden gets elected and he replaces Breyer with someone at least as liberal as RBG. I have my doubts about that, both the election and the will to appoint someone with non-reactionary values, but it's better than the alternative.
However, RBG absolutely deserves this criticism. To say otherwise strikes me as canonization.
Since I was twenty-one in 1889, I have in theory followed the voting plan strongly advocated by Sidney Lens in The Nation of August 4, i.e., voting for a third party even when its chances were hopeless, if the main parties were unsatisfactory; or, in absence of a third choice, voting for the lesser of two evils. My action, however, had to be limited by the candidates' attitude toward Negroes. Of my adult life, I have spent twenty-three years living and teaching in the South, where my voting choice was not asked. I was disfranchised by law or administration. In the North I lived in all thirty-two years, covering eight Presidential elections. In 1912 I wanted to support Theodore Roosevelt, but his Bull Moose convention dodged the Negro problem and I tried to help elect Wilson as a liberal Southerner. Under Wilson came the worst attempt at Jim Crow legislation and discrimination in civil service that we had experienced since the Civil War. In 1916 I took Hughes as the lesser of two evils. He promised Negroes nothing and kept his word. In 1920, I supported Harding because of his promise to liberate Haiti. In 1924, I voted for La Follette, although I knew he could not be elected. In 1928, Negroes faced absolute dilemma. Neither Hoover nor Smith wanted the Negro vote and both publicly insulted us. I voted for Norman Thomas and the Socialists, although the Socialists had attempted to Jim Crow Negro members in the South. In 1932 I voted for Franklin Roosevelt, since Hoover was unthinkable and Roosevelt's attitude toward workers most realistic. I was again in the South from 1934 until 1944. Technically I could vote, but the election in which I could vote was a farce. The real election was the White Primary.
Retired "for age" in 1944, I returned to the North and found a party to my liking. In 1948, I voted the Progressive ticket for Henry Wallace and in 1952 for Vincent Hallinan.
In 1956, I shall not go to the polls. I have not registered. I believe that democracy has so far disappeared in the United States that no "two evils" exist. There is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I can do or say. There is no third party. On the Presidential ballot in a few states (seventeen in 1952), a "Socialist" Party will appear. Few will hear its appeal because it will have almost no opportunity to take part in the campaign and explain its platform. If a voter organizes or advocates a real third-party movement, he may be accused of seeking to overthrow this government by "force and violence." Anything he advocates by way of significant reform will be called "Communist" and will of necessity be Communist in the sense that it must advocate such things as government ownership of the means of production; government in business; the limitation of private profit; social medicine, government housing and federal aid to education; the total abolition of race bias; and the welfare state. These things are on every Communist program; these things are the aim of socialism. Any American who advocates them today, no matter how sincerely, stands in danger of losing his job, surrendering his social status and perhaps landing in jail. The witnesses against him may be liars or insane or criminals. These witnesses need give no proof for their charges and may not even be known or appear in person. They may be in the pay of the United States Government. A.D.A.'s and "Liberals" are not third parties; they seek to act as tails to kites. But since the kites are self-propelled and radar-controlled, tails are quite superfluous and rather silly.
The present Administration is carrying on the greatest preparation for war in the history of mankind. Stevenson promises to maintain or increase this effort. The weight of our taxation is unbearable and rests mainly and deliberately on the poor. This Administration is dominated and directed by wealth and for the accumulation of wealth. It runs smoothly like a well-organized industry and should do so because industry runs it for the benefit of industry. Corporate wealth profits as never before in history. We turn over the national resources to private profit and have few funds left for education, health or housing. Our crime, especially juvenile crime, is increasing. Its increase is perfectly logical; for a generation we have been teaching our youth to kill, destroy, steal and rape in war; what can we expect in peace? We let men take wealth which is not theirs; if the seizure is "legal" we call it high profits and the profiteers help decide what is legal. If the theft is "illegal" the thief can fight it out in court, with excellent chances to win if he receives the accolade of the right newspapers. Gambling in home, church and on the stock market is increasing and all prices are rising. It costs three times his salary to elect a Senator and many millions to elect a President. This money comes from the very corporations which today are the government. This in a real democracy would be enough to turn the party responsible out of power. Yet this we cannot do.
The "other" party has surrendered all party differences in foreign affairs, and foreign affairs are our most important affairs today and take most of our taxes. Even in domestic affairs how does Stevenson differ from Eisenhower? He uses better English than Dulles, thank God! He has a sly humor, where Eisenhower has none. Beyond this Stevenson stands on the race question in the South not far from where his godfather Adlai stood sixty-three years ago, which reconciles him to the South. He has no clear policy on war or preparation for war; on water and flood control; on reduction of taxation; on the welfare state. He wavers on civil rights and his party blocked civil rights in the Senate until Douglas of Illinois admitted that the Democratic Senate would and could stop even the right of Senators to vote. Douglas had a right to complain. Three million voters sent him to the Senate to speak for them. His voice was drowned and his vote nullified by Eastland, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who was elected by 151,000 voters. This is the democracy in the United States which we peddle abroad.
Negroes hope to muster 400,000 votes in 1956. Where will they cast them? What have the Republicans done to enforce the education decision of the Supreme Court? What they advertised as fair employment was exactly nothing, and Nixon was just the man to explain it. What has the Administration done to rescue Negro workers, the most impoverished group in the nation, half of whom receive less than half the median wage of the nation, while the nation sends billions abroad to protect oil investments and help employ slave labor in the Union of South Africa and the Rhodesias? Very well, and will the party of Talmadge, Eastland and Ellender do better than the Republicans if the Negroes return them to office?
I have no advice for others in this election. Are you voting Democratic? Well and good; all I ask is why? Are you voting for Eisenhower and his smooth team of bright ghost writers? Again, why? Will your helpless vote either way support or restore democracy to America?
Is the refusal to vote in this phony election a counsel of despair? No, it is dogged hope. It is hope that if twenty-five million voters refrain from voting in 1956 because of their own accord and not because of a sly wink from Khrushchev, this might make the American people ask how much longer this dumb farce can proceed without even a whimper of protest. Yet if we protest, off the nation goes to Russia and China. Fifty-five American ministers and philanthropists are asking the Soviet Union "to face manfully the doubts and promptings of their conscience." Can not these do-gooders face their own consciences? Can they not see that American culture is rotting away: our honesty, our human sympathy; our literature, save what we import from abroad? Our only "review" of literature has wisely dropped "literature" from its name. Our manners are gone and the one thing we want is to be rich--to show off. Success is measured by income. University education is for income, not culture, and is partially supported by private industry. We are not training poets or musicians, but atomic engineers. Business is built on successful lying called advertising. We want money in vast amount, no matter how we get it. So we have it, and what then?
Is the answer the election of 1956? We can make a sick man President and set him to a job which would strain a man in robust health. So he dies, and what do we get to lead us? With Stevenson and Nixon, with Eisenhower and Eastland, we remain in the same mess. I will be no party to it and that will make little difference. You will take large part and bravely march to the polls, and that also will make no difference. Stop running Russia and giving Chinese advice when we cannot rule ourselves decently. Stop yelling about a democracy we do not have. Democracy is dead in the United States. Yet there is still nothing to replace real democracy. Drop the chains, then, that bind our brains. Drive the money-changers from the seats of the Cabinet and the halls of Congress. Call back some faint spirit of Jefferson and Lincoln,and when again we can hold a fair election on real issues, let's vote, and not till then. Is this impossible? Then democracy in America is impossible.
Post by abefroman1 on Sept 23, 2020 8:40:39 GMT -5
No wonder they put all those laws in place to put people tearing down statues in prison for 10 years. They know how many riots there will be when they pull this shit. I'm going to be sick.
Post by OzzyOzwald on Sept 23, 2020 11:45:43 GMT -5
A little late to the discourse, but RBG (yes, and Breyer) should have retired during Obama's first term. She was asked to step down early in his second term, she refused, and instead the democratic party turned her into a fashion icon. I'm not going to tell anyone who to have as their heroes (mine are all imperfect too.) She won some landmark victories for women's rights, she also relied on incredibly racist judicial precedents specifically with regards to indigenous communities, had like 2 black clerks over the course of her career, and recently has issued some horrible environmental rulings. Ultimately, if liberals continue to view the court as some apolitical body in which Justices aren't political figures who should act like it, they will continue to get owned there. (Also sorry if this has all been litigated I only caught up on the last page.)
None of what I’ve read makes any sense at all. Situational rules or the law can’t be so fucked up to allow an indictment for a cop who shot errantly but not for a cop who fucked up across the board and killed an innocent person. Is that not errant shooting too? Wrong place? Wrong person? Sorry for the fuckup and loss of life? Ok, no major harm no foul. Taylor’s life did not matter to justice anyway. Shit is out of whack.
2024: The Floozies, Phyphr, Disco Biscuits, Cimafunk, WSMFP, The Killers, Cory Wong, Dumpstaphunk, Bomba Estereo, Molly & Golden Hwy, Big Freedia, Payton/Nth Power, A.P&TFN, Mule