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Substance is rapping about black children killed by cops because of the color of their skin... and how it hasn't changed since the riots in LA.
Substance is rapping about black men being in prison for possessing pot while white men like Bill Maher just lit up a joint on HBO live on air a week ago. (Bill Maher fan here)
Substance is telling young people "18 years, 18 years... she got one of your kids, got you for 18 years"
Substance is rapping "here come some conservative Baptists... claiming I'm overreacting like them black kids in Chiraq..."
It's not rapping "I bet me and Ray J would be friends. If we ain't love the same b----. Yeah, he might have hit it first. Only problem is I'm rich"
That's not to say a fun album is bad... it just lacks any social message which I think THE GREATEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME... *might* need to have.
I'm sorry but this is bullshit. So, the only way a black rapper can have substance is to talk about racial injustice?
Rapping about relationships, faith, mental instability, and family isn't substance for a black rapper?
What's the compare/contrast between substance and quality?
What if I talk about social issues but I do a really shitty job of it?
Kanye's work on the album is his rap, though. He rarely even produces anymore according to John Legend recently. So if his contribution to the album is his rap... not the beats, the samples, and mixes, etc... that is all we really have to judge him on if you want to say you made THE GREATEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME. I keep putting that in caps because that is why I am judging him more harshly than others. Jay-Z made Magna Carta and that was also a fun rap album and I give him no criticism because he didn't declare it the best of the best. It was just a fun album to listen to...
I didn't realize Kanye's fans did not accept criticism (especially since I am a huge Kanye fan).
Kanye's work on the album is his rap, though. He rarely even produces anymore according to John Legend recently. So if his contribution to the album is his rap... not the beats, the samples, and mixes, etc... that is all we really have to judge him on if you want to say you made THE GREATEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME. I keep putting that in caps because that is why I am judging him more harshly than others. Jay-Z made Magna Carta and that was also a fun rap album and I give him no criticism because he didn't declare it the best of the best. It was just a fun album to listen to...
I didn't realize Kanye's fans did not accept criticism (especially since I am a huge Kanye fan).
I'm a Kanye fan who thinks the most recent version of Kanye needs to stop tweeting and stop doing and saying dumb shit and start making better music. I'll criticize the fuck out of Kanye, but your criticisms are trash.
Is it? We both just said the same thing... his rap was weak on the new album.
What's the compare/contrast between substance and quality?
What if I talk about social issues but I do a really shitty job of it?
Kanye's work on the album is his rap, though. He rarely even produces anymore according to John Legend recently. So if his contribution to the album is his rap... not the beats, the samples, and mixes, etc... that is all we really have to judge him on if you want to say you made THE GREATEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME. I keep putting that in caps because that is why I am judging him more harshly than others. Jay-Z made Magna Carta and that was also a fun rap album and I give him no criticism because he didn't declare it the best of the best. It was just a fun album to listen to...
I didn't realize Kanye's fans did not accept criticism (especially since I am a huge Kanye fan).
Yeah, there are totally valid criticisms of TLOP. The lyrics are dumb. At least 1/3rd of the songs might be unfinished.
But Kanye definitely still produces his own albums. He collaborates with other producers, but the sound all funnels through him.
Edit: And lyrics alone do not determine if an album has substance or not. And I'm not even sure substance matters. In fact, discussing substance kinda makes me hate substance.
Kanye's work on the album is his rap, though. He rarely even produces anymore according to John Legend recently. So if his contribution to the album is his rap... not the beats, the samples, and mixes, etc... that is all we really have to judge him on if you want to say you made THE GREATEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME. I keep putting that in caps because that is why I am judging him more harshly than others. Jay-Z made Magna Carta and that was also a fun rap album and I give him no criticism because he didn't declare it the best of the best. It was just a fun album to listen to...
I didn't realize Kanye's fans did not accept criticism (especially since I am a huge Kanye fan).
Yeah, there are totally valid criticisms of TLOP. The lyrics are dumb. At least 1/3rd of the songs might be unfinished.
But Kanye definitely still produces his own albums. He collaborates with other producers, but the sound all funnels through him.
I hope this is the case... I still love the new album, too. I was listening to it this morning for the umpteenth time. It likely will even get my vote of the month unless Animal Collective tops it.
Post by Fozzie Bear on Feb 25, 2016 11:00:43 GMT -5
I'm going to interrupt this convo real quick by saying I'm likely voting for another black musician whose album is fucking great, yet barely any of you is talking about it. Lots of substance, too! If that's your thing.
I'm going to interrupt this convo real quick by saying I'm likely voting for another black musician whose album is fucking great, yet barely any of you is talking about it. Lots of substance, too! If that's your thing.
I'm going to interrupt this convo real quick by saying I'm likely voting for another black musician whose album is fucking great, yet barely any of you is talking about it. Lots of substance, too! If that's your thing.
Woahhhhh, I just realized Ryan Lewis seriously looks like Ryan Howard from the Office
I was in a regional corporate music retailer recently (one of the few left) and they had a pre-recorded message alerting everyone about the upcoming release from Macklemore and Ray Lewis.
Woahhhhh, I just realized Ryan Lewis seriously looks like Ryan Howard from the Office
I was in a regional corporate music retailer recently (one of the few left) and they had a pre-recorded message alerting everyone about the upcoming release from Macklemore and Ray Lewis.
Good to see the pride of my hometown branching outside of football... You think he could hit a quarterback, wait until you see him hit a high note!!
I know it's the popular opinion to think that Macklemore has no artistic integrity/value, but Same Love is about as well intentioned a song as you can get. I kind of realized this after the excerpt in Shea Serrano's Rap Yearbook. I'd highly recommend the read.
That being said, everyone should listen to this Moodyman. Just wanted to jump on that hype train.
It's well intentioned, sure, but it's not a straight white guy's job to sing about LGBT issues because he once thought he was gay for liking art class.
It's well intentioned, sure, but it's not a straight white guy's job to sing about LGBT issues because he once thought he was gay for liking art class.
Right, I get that. I'm just not sure there are many artists in a genre that's gotten a bad reputation as being homophobic that would do it. Sure, he's probably the guy that can most easily make that song, but there's still something to say about a guy who's making a pro-gay song in a medium that's typically anti-gay. That's all I'm saying.
As a straight, white male who grew up with two parents in a middle to upper middle class family, I understand I had a lot of white privilege in my life. I recognize discrimination, racism, bigotry, and misogyny in our world as best as I can since I do not have to live it.
With that being said, I also recognize that it is not the job of progressives like myself to solve all the problems in the world for other people. But are we really getting to the point now where we are hating on people who utilize their platform to stand up to injustice and at least point it out to the world?
As a straight, white male who grew up with two parents in a middle to upper middle class family, I understand I had a lot of white privilege in my life. I recognize discrimination, racism, bigotry, and misogyny in our world as best as I can since I do not have to live it.
With that being said, I also recognize that it is not the job of progressives like myself to solve all the problems in the world for other people. But are we really getting to the point now where we are hating on people who utilize their platform to stand up to injustice and at least point it out to the world?
My issue isn't that he did it, it's that the song is hailed as some kind of accomplishment for it, and that he makes money off of it.
Having a positive message is great, and I will never begrudge him for that, but when Janelle Monae's "Q.U.E.E.N." was a single around the same time and is more progressive, more authentic, and a better song, it's hard to like the bad haircut white guy who's made millions essentially off of the struggles of others. If he donated some of the proceeds to LGBT activism, he'd have a whole lot more of my appreciation and sympathy.
As a straight, white male who grew up with two parents in a middle to upper middle class family, I understand I had a lot of white privilege in my life. I recognize discrimination, racism, bigotry, and misogyny in our world as best as I can since I do not have to live it.
With that being said, I also recognize that it is not the job of progressives like myself to solve all the problems in the world for other people. But are we really getting to the point now where we are hating on people who utilize their platform to stand up to injustice and at least point it out to the world?
My issue isn't that he did it, it's that the song is hailed as some kind of accomplishment for it, and that he makes money off of it.
Having a positive message is great, and I will never begrudge him for that, but when Janelle Monae's "Q.U.E.E.N." was a single around the same time and is more progressive, more authentic, and a better song, it's hard to like the bad haircut white guy who's made millions essentially off of the struggles of others. If he donated some of the proceeds to LGBT activism, he'd have a whole lot more of my appreciation and sympathy.
Exactly. I'm certainly not seething with rage at the guy, but back in 2012 there were several LGBT rappers releasinggreatsongs that got nowhere near the amount of recognition that Macklemore was getting. It's hard not to look back and think about how cool it would've been if they broke out into the mainstream, too.
You guys don't get it, ham-fisted "substance" trumps originality and creativity every time.
A truly great artist can have all three.
I think a lot of people in this thread seem to think I meant substance is ONLY social issues... that's not the case. Substance is originality and creativity. It can be writing about something important today (a social issue) or about your own life... or something vague that requires the listener to draw their own story. It can be about anything as long as it's something new or pulls some type of emotion from the listener. It's not required to be a social issue.
I just don't come away with much from Kanye's new album other than just having a good time... which is fine. I am now going to retire from talking about Kanye in this thread and return to the topic at hand... Fozzie Bear , thanks for the recommendation. I loved Moodymann's album, too.