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Post by Alberto Balsalm on Nov 14, 2012 11:27:26 GMT -5
Davey and Melvin got Manager of the Year. Thought it might go to Showalter in the AL but Melvin is a good choice too. If there was any year for co-winners this would be it though, they both did a fantastic job.
Who ya'll got in the Cy Young tonight? Verlander and Kershaw should win 'em, I have a feeling weenieey will get it in the NL because of his 'story' though
Mar 14 Sheepdogs/Fitz & The Tantrums/City & Colour (Austin)
Mar 15 Jim James (Austin)
Apr 26 Jim James (Boston)
May 4 Clutch & The Sword (Portland ME)
Jun 8 DMB (Hartford)
Jun 21 Jim James (Northampton MA)
Jul 27-28 Newport Folk
Oct 25-27 MOEMS
I'm in class right now and my laptop just died so I have to wait til I get home to prove Flanz wrong but this is exactly how I was going to start my post. LOLwinz, come on Flanz.
Sorry guys, I guess the fact that weenieey won 19 games on a putrid team with the worst bullpen in baseball means nothing, seeing how he went the distance 5 times.
I don't think record decides anything, but you don't disregard it entirely.
Alberto, save me your sabermetrics nonsense, I know what you're going to say. weenieey deserves it by what he did on the field, plain and simple.
Sorry guys, I guess the fact that weenieey won 19 games on a putrid team with the worst bullpen in baseball means nothing, seeing how he went the distance 5 times.
I don't think record decides anything, but you don't disregard it entirely.
Alberto, save me your sabermetrics nonsense, I know what you're going to say. weenieey deserves it by what he did on the field, plain and simple.
5 CGs is a very meaningful statistic. More so than Ws.
Generaly I'm anti-Alberto's "there's only one person deserving of anything" ideology
The Mets scored 4.61 runs per weenieey start. The Dodgers scored 3.94 runs per Kershaw’s start. In fact, the "putrid" Mets scored more runs than the Dodgers on the whole. As to your 5 complete games point, weenieey had 6 more innings total than Kershaw. I think it’s safe to say that’s pretty negligible when they both threw ~230 innings.
The Mets scored 4.61 runs per weenieey start. The Dodgers scored 3.94 runs per Kershaw’s start. In fact, the "putrid" Mets scored more runs than the Dodgers on the whole. As to your 5 complete games point, weenieey had 6 more innings total than Kershaw. I think it’s safe to say that’s pretty negligible when they both threw ~230 innings.
Damnit Glenn you're using up all my arguments before I can get off my phone
The Mets scored 4.61 runs per weenieey start. The Dodgers scored 3.94 runs per Kershaw’s start. In fact, the "putrid" Mets scored more runs than the Dodgers on the whole. As to your 5 complete games point, weenieey had 6 more innings total than Kershaw. I think it’s safe to say that’s pretty negligible when they both threw ~230 innings.
So the argument is.....what, exactly? That the two of them are about the same for everything except ERA (.2 difference), so Kershaw should win?
The Mets scored 4.61 runs per weenieey start. The Dodgers scored 3.94 runs per Kershaw’s start. In fact, the "putrid" Mets scored more runs than the Dodgers on the whole. As to your 5 complete games point, weenieey had 6 more innings total than Kershaw. I think it’s safe to say that’s pretty negligible when they both threw ~230 innings.
So the argument is.....what, exactly? That the two of them are about the same for everything except ERA (.2 difference), so Kershaw should win?
My argument is that your argument that weenieey should win because of his superior record is a bad argument. To be honest I don’t really care who wins. They’re so close in a lot of areas that I don’t think it’s a big deal either way. I personally never said Kershaw should win btw.
My argument is that your argument that weenieey should win because of his superior record is a bad argument. To be honest I don’t really care who wins. They’re so close in a lot of areas that I don’t think it’s a big deal either way. I personally never said Kershaw should win btw.
Gron, c'mon buddy, I just said that shouldn't decide it, but it should factor in.
And I know, but you jumped on Alberto's bandwagon that said Kershaw, so I assumed.
Oh, and where does "RA weenieey pitched since APRIL with a torn abdominal muscle" factor into this? I think that carries weight as well.
Post by Zappatical on Nov 14, 2012 12:52:03 GMT -5
Horn I was going to link you to a Youtube video of Torii Hunter making a fantastic catch but it turns out it was Gary Matthews Jr. Torii Hunter can catch too, don't worry.
If anything I think it’s unfair that it’s seemingly between these two guys. Gio is just as deserving IMO. Hell, I feel like Hamels should even be considered. I just don’t think there was one pitcher that clearly stood out over the next 4-5 in the NL this year.
Horn I was going to link you to a Youtube video of Torii Hunter making a fantastic catch but it turns out it was Gary Matthews Jr. Torii Hunter can catch too, don't worry.
That Gary Matthews Jr. catch is probably one of the five best catches from the last decade. So insane. I think the Angels OF in general probably has the other four over that time frame, too
If anything I think it’s unfair that it’s seemingly between these two guys. Gio is just as deserving IMO. Hell, I feel like Hamels should even be considered. I just don’t think there was one pitcher that clearly stood out over the next 4-5 in the NL this year.
See, I think Cueto should be in consideration over Gio. Gio's #'s were really good, but the only thing he lead the league in......was wins! Guess that rules him out.
Alberto, save me your sabermetrics nonsense, I know what you're going to say. weenieey deserves it by what he did on the field, plain and simple.
First off lol @ the willful ignorance of "Sabermetric nonsense". Whether you follow them or not it's pretty silly to cast it off as nonsense. Regardless, you don't even need to delve too deep into the sabermetrics to see that Kershaw was clearly the better pitcher this year. Funny that you bring up what they did on the field this year, let's take a look at what THEY actually did on the field this year as pitchers.
Outside of the last two, none of those are even saber stats. And Kershaw is still clearly the better pitcher. Kershaw was better at striking batters out, and weenieey gave up more baserunners, way more home runs, and more runs. Even the almighty ERA favors Kershaw, as well as the more telling saber ERA stats. The only thing weenieey did better was go less than 1 out deeper into games than Kershaw, and walk about 1 batter less every 2 starts. And despite this Kershaw's WHIP is still lower.
So that's what they did on the field. Pretty clear Kershaw was a better pitcher.
But weenieey had more WINZ Ricky Nolasco had 12 wins this year and Cliff Lee had 6 wins and Nolasco was on the "worse team". Nolasco was the better pitcher, right?
And like glennron said, you say "worse team", yet weenieey got more run support than Kershaw all year. This is the main contributor to weenieey's advantage in wins, clearly, since Kershaw obviously outperformed him on the field as seen above. The award goes to the best pitcher, not a good pitcher with a better offense and other things that a pitcher can't control that helps a team win games. And the better pitcher was Kershaw, plain and simple.
Also horn I don't get how you can be anti-"one person deserves the award". With all the information we have access to these days, and considering the fact that no two players will ever have an identical season, there will ALWAYS be a best player who deserves the award. I don't see how you can argue that.
If anything I think it’s unfair that it’s seemingly between these two guys. Gio is just as deserving IMO. Hell, I feel like Hamels should even be considered. I just don’t think there was one pitcher that clearly stood out over the next 4-5 in the NL this year.
See, I think Cueto should be in consideration over Gio. Gio's #'s were really good, but the only thing he lead the league in......was wins! Guess that rules him out.
Yeah I forgot to mention Cueto. That's kind of my point though. There's a solid handful of guys that had similarly great seasons to the point where I don't think anyone should really be upset if their guy doesn't win.
Alberto, save me your sabermetrics nonsense, I know what you're going to say. weenieey deserves it by what he did on the field, plain and simple.
First off lol @ the willful ignorance of "Sabermetric nonsense". Whether you follow them or not it's pretty silly to cast it off as nonsense. Regardless, you don't even need to delve too deep into the sabermetrics to see that Kershaw was clearly the better pitcher this year. Funny that you bring up what they did on the field this year, let's take a look at what THEY actually did on the field this year as pitchers.
Outside of the last two, none of those are even saber stats. And Kershaw is still clearly the better pitcher. Kershaw was better at striking batters out, and weenieey gave up more baserunners, way more home runs, and more runs. Even the almighty ERA favors Kershaw, as well as the more telling saber ERA stats. The only thing weenieey did better was go about 1 out deeper into games than Kershaw, and walk about 1 batter less every 2 starts. Yet Kershaw's WHIP is still lower.
So that's what they did on the field. Pretty clear Kershaw was a better pitcher.
But weenieey had more WINZ Ricky Nolasco had 12 wins this year and Cliff Lee had 6 wins and Nolasco was on the "worse team". Nolasco was the better pitcher, right?
And like glennron said, you say "worse team", yet weenieey got more run support than Kershaw all year. This is the main contributor to weenieey's advantage in wins, clearly, since Kershaw obviously outperformed him on the field as seen above. The award goes to the best pitcher, not a good pitcher with a better offense and other things that a pitcher can't control that helps a team win games. And the better pitcher was Kershaw, plain and simple.
Also horn I don't get how you can be anti-"one person deserves the award". With all the information we have access to these days, and considering the fact that no two players will ever have an identical season, there will ALWAYS be a best player who deserves the award. I don't see how you can argue that.
I can cherry-pick stats that RA was better in also, you know.
K/9, quality starts, K/BB ratio and all the season total marks (which DO matter, it's a marathon not a sprint and season totals count for something).
RA pitched with a torn muscle the entire season.
RA had a much worse bullpen (as important as run support).
It's not clear-cut. The arrogance you use when you post in this thread is really frustrating, you're not like this in any other threads. You're a stat-head, for NFL I'm the same way. I know every advanced metric for the NFL, but I don't use just stats. And before you tell me baseball is an individual sport and stats mean more, I know that already. My point is, you can't just look at stats, it's not human nature to sit and stare at a sheet of paper and go "okay, I made my decision."
You may want the voters to take out the "other stuff," but we both know that isn't likely to happen.
Even if it was, I still say RA wins it since the differences in stats are negligible in most cases and weenieey was hurt ALL YEAR.
Ricky Nolasco had 12 wins this year and Cliff Lee had 6 wins and Nolasco was on the "worse team". Nolasco was the better pitcher, right? 