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I'm a 7 year Bonnaroo vet and can't see myself returning to the farm with lineups like these.
This seems to be the veteran consensus.
We're clearly on generation 3 of Bonnaroo now. Not much before 2007 lineup wise was enough to get me to drive 13 hours just like the past 2 years. Only difference now is that there are about 30 different fest I can choose from within a 4 hour drive.
We're clearly on generation 3 of Bonnaroo now. Not much before 2007 lineup wise was enough to get me to drive 13 hours just like the past 2 years. Only difference now is that there are about 30 different fest I can choose from within a 4 hour drive.
It's an astute observation that we are on generation 3. Gen 1 = jamband fans, Gen 2 = people who enjoy a wide variety of music, both newer and older artists, Gen 3 = EDM.
I know Gen 3 is technically more diverse than that, as was Gen 1. Gen 1 had your bands easily categorized as jambands (Panic, Dave, Trey, Umphreys, Particle, STS9, etc.), but also bands that were precursors to jambands (The Dead, ABB, Steve Winwood, etc.), and acts that aren't technically jambands but exist in the "scene" (Jurassic 5, The Roots, Ween, Cut Chemist, Wilco, anything funky, anything bluegrass, etc).
Similar to how we can call Gen 1, or the first 3-4 years of Bonnaroo, a jamband festival, despite the appearance of a myriad of other genres, I'm comfortable calling Gen 3 an EDM festival. EDM seems to be the big draw but with EDM-adjacent acts, hip-hop/R&B, pop acts, etc. also drawing crowds.
I had no issue transitioning from Gen 1 to Gen 2. My music journey followed Bonnaroo's pretty similarly, progressing both backwards and forwards from jambands, further delving into the older artists that influence the jambands I loved, and pushing forward to whatever was next, because there had to be more to life than analyzing the 12 minute type 2 jam following the last chorus in a song about a man-gerbil that sold doses to a cop, right?
Like most of us here I am cursed/blessed with a deep love for a variety of genres, and I personally had no difficulty enjoying many of the artists from the first big wave of EDM several years ago. I was excited to see electronic music finally catching on in the United States, and genuinely enjoyed Bassnectar, deadmau5, Skrillex, Pretty Lights, etc. But over the past 3 years EDM, which wasn't really pushing any musical boundaries to begin with, has become more and more blandified and safe, to the point where it sounds just as generic and lifeless as the corporate pop music I hated so much as a teenager in the early to mid nineties. And to make matters worse the DJs who play this mashed potato sandwich with mayo and white bread music will not shut the fuck up.
As such, I will not be able to make the transition from gen 2 to gen 3. Some might call this a function of my age, as I'm 35 now, and maybe they are right, but I don't think so. I truly think most of what is called EDM these days is just bad music. I think it's bad for the people who love it and listen to it. Music should always push you, it should stretch and expand your mind, it should challenge you and the way you view art, the mind, consciousness, life itself, and it should do so while being highly entertaining. I don't think Yellow Claw ticks these boxes.
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 12, 2017 12:23:04 GMT -5
I saw two shows that you'd call EDM this weekend out of 20 or so shows. One stage of five is dedicated to EDM now. There has been EDM at Bonnaroo for years. It used to be better EDM, but the concept of having DJs perform at Bonnaroo is nothing new.
Post by Roo'adelphia on Jun 12, 2017 12:36:38 GMT -5
Dont forget Glass Animals and Cage the Elephant are considered "rockstars" nowadays. Im sure the folks at those shows had a really fun time, just not for me. Bonnaroo isnt exclusively EDM, but they wouldnt of sold 20-30K out of 60-70K tickets this year if it was left off the lineup. And with all these kids taking stories of The Other Stage back home, the EDM presence will only continue to expand.
I saw two shows that you'd call EDM this weekend out of 20 or so shows. One stage of five is dedicated to EDM now. There has been EDM at Bonnaroo for years. It used to be better EDM, but the concept of having DJs perform at Bonnaroo is nothing new.
Agreed on DJs at Roo is nothing new, hell the first Bonnaroo had Cut Chemist and Z-Trip. But it's clear that trash EDM is the draw now.
I love electronic music, I'm not one of these "where the guitars?????" people. In fact I find most contemporary rock or indie acts to be mind numbingly boring. I just don't like the electronic music Roo booked this year because it was boring trash except for CvS.
I don't know if I agree with this generation of EDM being trash. Obviously plenty of it is as was evidenced by some of the sets at Bonnaroo this weekend. But with a pretty easy swap out here or there, they could have gotten better Dub, Trap and even House DJ's than what ended up playing. Also, the new era is also fostering the move back to live and merging back with Jam in a lot of instances. Where you used to get that with acts like EOTO, Digital Tape Machine or maybe Conspirator or Greenhouse Lounge, tons of the better EDM acts are doing it now. Break Science Live, Pretty Lights with Alvin Ford Jr., Borham Lee, Chris Carnes, etc., GRiZ (usually with Muzzy Bear), Gramatik with Gibbz, Russ Liquid Experiment, etc. are examples of much better acts musically than typical Borgore/Getter stuff they booked more of this year and ones who either incorporate live instrumentation or additional musicians. Shit, even Big Gigantic (who I'm pretty tired of but is still fun to see live) had Trey Anastasio Band's Natalie Cressman on Trombone and Jennifer Hartswick on Trumpet and some of the vocals. In parts where the brass was featured, that sounded much better than typical Big G.
So I guess it gets down to the booking. If Bonnaroo is looking toward EDM as a main component of what they're doing, then they will market the POP stuff to the masses. Most of the more experienced festival kids will ignore those sets and pick and choose something else. Look at Electric Forest. The jam sets there are as big as anything.
Post by Roo'adelphia on Jun 12, 2017 13:05:17 GMT -5
The Other Stage is going to make it so easy to just fly shitty EDM artist in to plug in their flash drive and play for 1.5 hours. They dont even need a tour setup or screens now.
The Other Stage is going to make it so easy to just fly shitty EDM artist in to plug in their flash drive and play for 1.5 hours. They dont even need a tour setup or screens now.
You are right. We have that here for Voodoo and there is Perry stage at Lolla. If maybe 30-35% of the ticket buyers want that, they are going to have to give it to them. Except for overly loud shit like evidently Major Lazer, it confines at least most of the DJs (obvious exceptions are bigger acts like Bassnectar @ Which or Deadmau5 @ What) and their fans to a specific area that feeds them what they want anyway.
I saw two shows that you'd call EDM this weekend out of 20 or so shows. One stage of five is dedicated to EDM now. There has been EDM at Bonnaroo for years. It used to be better EDM, but the concept of having DJs perform at Bonnaroo is nothing new.
Agreed on DJs at Roo is nothing new, hell the first Bonnaroo had Cut Chemist and Z-Trip. But it's clear that trash EDM is the draw now.
I love electronic music, I'm not one of these "where the guitars?????" people. In fact I find most contemporary rock or indie acts to be mind numbingly boring. I just don't like the electronic music Roo booked this year because it was boring trash except for CvS.
Yeah. I agree. It's been said a million times, but if they would just do something like 2015 EDM-wise again, those lineups would be way more appealing. I don't think sales would suffer for it, either. Acts like Odesza and Fly Lo are big draws and don't suck.
I don't know if I agree with this generation of EDM being trash.
This generation of EDM is not trash, it's actually quite the opposite. That's why it's so mind boggling for this festival to almost exclusively book bottom of the barrel, no-name acts when this genre is so strong right now.
I don't know if I agree with this generation of EDM being trash.
This generation of EDM is not trash, it's actually quite the opposite. That's why it's so mind boggling for this festival to almost exclusively book bottom of the barrel, no-name acts when this genre is so strong right now.
let Dirtybird curate The Other and shit would be tight. everybody would love it.
Post by Vector Viking on Jun 13, 2017 0:18:10 GMT -5
LCD didn't ruin Bonnaroo. Bonnaroo was ruined long before anyone thought of rebooking LCD Soundsystem to ruin Bonnaroo. If you REALLY want to know the truth, the straight dope, the inside track;
I did it. I ruined Bonnaroo. Me. Single-handedly.
How, you ask? Well, wouldn't you like to know! You'll just have to post a shoiteloade of polls asking how I did it and posting your ideas about how I ruined Bonnaroo all by myself. One of you is bound to get it right one day, and maybe I'll tell you. Maybe I'll be too busy ruining Coachella to tell you about how you're finally not wrong about how I ruined Bonnaroo. It'll probably take you guys so long that I will have already thoroughly ruined Coachella and moved on to ruining Glastonbury for everyone. It definitely wasn't LCD Soundsystem that ruined Bonnaroo, or that would have happened the year BEANNNZ got tossed out of Bonnaroo for being BEANNNZ at LCD at Bonnaroo. Since that didn't work at all, I had to take it upon myself to ruin it for everyone. Neener.
I don't know if I agree with this generation of EDM being trash.
This generation of EDM is not trash, it's actually quite the opposite. That's why it's so mind boggling for this festival to almost exclusively book bottom of the barrel, no-name acts when this genre is so strong right now.
Agreed on DJs at Roo is nothing new, hell the first Bonnaroo had Cut Chemist and Z-Trip. But it's clear that trash EDM is the draw now.
I love electronic music, I'm not one of these "where the guitars?????" people. In fact I find most contemporary rock or indie acts to be mind numbingly boring. I just don't like the electronic music Roo booked this year because it was boring trash except for CvS.
Yeah. I agree. It's been said a million times, but if they would just do something like 2015 EDM-wise again, those lineups would be way more appealing. I don't think sales would suffer for it, either. Acts like Odesza and Fly Lo are big draws and don't suck.
Exactly this, and another reason why I can't understand how Bonnaroo operates these days. Like 3post1jack1, I actually find a large portion of my listening these days is electronic music. I'm not against EDM, far from it. I'm against booking solely garbage acts.
There is so much good electronic music out there right now. Bonnaroo could easily book both popular/cheesy artists to help drive some sales while simultaneously booking quality electronic artists.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Coachella books plenty of trash EDM to satiate the kids, but they also bring the heat for people with taste.
This is just one more example of Bonnaroo not knowing how to lead, and simply following others, resulting in a derivative festival.
I don't really care that they've gone so heavily EDM. It's not my thing but that's fine. The festival isn't meant to exclusively cater to my tastes. If they want to book 20% of their music on a stage dedicated to one genre, fine.
My problem was that the other 80% of the festival doesn't necessarily hit a lot of buttons for me either anymore. I had a much better time than expected this year but that doesn't mean that the lineup couldn't have been much better. The lineup was virtually devoid of jam, metal and world music. Aside from two of the headliners, there was virtually no nod to the "legacy" style acts that helped to build the foundation that the modern music scene has been built on. Hip hop seemed underrepresented as well. Instead we got a heavy dose of acts that play every city's alt rock music festival.
Again, not saying that they booked "bad" acts but it was not a very inspired lineup. Ultimately, it's that neglect that has hurt the festival's reputation than one act or the increased focus on EDM.
I don't really care that they've gone so heavily EDM. It's not my thing but that's fine. The festival isn't meant to exclusively cater to my tastes. If they want to book 20% of their music on a stage dedicated to one genre, fine.
My problem was that the other 80% of the festival doesn't necessarily hit a lot of buttons for me either anymore. I had a much better time than expected this year but that doesn't mean that the lineup couldn't have been much better. The lineup was virtually devoid of jam, metal and world music. Aside from two of the headliners, there was virtually no nod to the "legacy" style acts that helped to build the foundation that the modern music scene has been built on. Hip hop seemed underrepresented as well. Instead we got a heavy dose of acts that play every city's alt rock music festival.
Again, not saying that they booked "bad" acts but it was not a very inspired lineup. Ultimately, it's that neglect that has hurt the festival's reputation than one act or the increased focus on EDM.
This is how I felt about the year previously, as I remember riding the ferris wheel late with abrakapokus about how they had gotten their LN/edm/electronic music flowing for like 3 good years and then consummately destroyed it with Kalliope's choices and choosing not to diversify the barn's dj's. I had a raucous year of good music in 2016 without hitting all the buttons I wanted and without PJ and LCD on the top of the line I might have not gone.
I want to say why the 65k is interesting, my reflex is to wonder what next years will be, esp. if they choose the same booking/lineup route. Will they grab the repeat customers they need? Statistically is it anomalous because of U2 literally not playing any other festival? Or is it a divergence in musical taste that, younger people are much more attached to?
I see this very heavily in the hip-hop scene. Even at a Freddie Gibbs show, people weren't vibing with all the other trap type rappers unless they brought rhymes. This is an audience with what I would say was a former key demographic for these festivals - (but they might all head to the second day at the Meadows instead of burning in the sun of TN). So where do we start seeing a split in audience excitement? We know how hard is to "rate" artists because people have different viewpoints, but will quality HAVE to come back in to shuttle in repeat customers? These are much more interesting questions of musical taste and festival-choreography imo.
I don't really care that they've gone so heavily EDM. It's not my thing but that's fine. The festival isn't meant to exclusively cater to my tastes. If they want to book 20% of their music on a stage dedicated to one genre, fine.
My problem was that the other 80% of the festival doesn't necessarily hit a lot of buttons for me either anymore. I had a much better time than expected this year but that doesn't mean that the lineup couldn't have been much better. The lineup was virtually devoid of jam, metal and world music. Aside from two of the headliners, there was virtually no nod to the "legacy" style acts that helped to build the foundation that the modern music scene has been built on. Hip hop seemed underrepresented as well. Instead we got a heavy dose of acts that play every city's alt rock music festival.
Again, not saying that they booked "bad" acts but it was not a very inspired lineup. Ultimately, it's that neglect that has hurt the festival's reputation than one act or the increased focus on EDM.
This is how I felt about the year previously, as I remember riding the ferris wheel late with abrakapokus about how they had gotten their LN/edm/electronic music flowing for like 3 good years and then consummately destroyed it with Kalliope's choices and choosing not to diversify the barn's dj's. I had a raucous year of good music in 2016 without hitting all the buttons I wanted and without PJ and LCD on the top of the line I might have not gone.
I want to say why the 65k is interesting, my reflex is to wonder what next years will be, esp. if they choose the same booking/lineup route. Will they grab the repeat customers they need? Statistically is it anomalous because of U2 literally not playing any other festival? Or is it a divergence in musical taste that, younger people are much more attached to?
I see this very heavily in the hip-hop scene. Even at a Freddie Gibbs show, people weren't vibing with all the other trap type rappers unless they brought rhymes. This is an audience with what I would say was a former key demographic for these festivals - (but they might all head to the second day at the Meadows instead of burning in the sun of TN). So where do we start seeing a split in audience excitement? We know how hard is to "rate" artists because people have different viewpoints, but will quality HAVE to come back in to shuttle in repeat customers? These are much more interesting questions of musical taste and festival-choreography imo.
Pure speculation, but I would bet U2 wasn't the biggest reason Bonnaroo "bounced back" to 65k tickets this year. I think it was The Weeknd and Chance at the top of the bill followed by a significant emphasis on EDM. Again, we don't have the demographic statistics, but most of the reviews I've read comment on the youthfulness of the crowd this year. Far be it from me to put all young people in a box, but I'd wager they are more interested in contemporary popular music than a 1980's post-post-punk act. Not to mention U2 has toured heavily this summer, playing stadiums that anybody can get a ticket for. I'd imagine many Roo newcomers this year viewed U2 playing Roo similarly to how I would view Lady Gaga playing Roo, as a great opportunity to see a big artist that I'm not passionate enough about to buy a ticket specifically for.
Obviously Bonnaroo would like to sell more tickets. So how do they get another 10-20k to the farm?
First, don't screw up what you did "right" with the undercard. Keep The Other and load it up with EDM. Book one or two "big name" trash EDM acts to play Which: DJ Snake, The Chainsmokers, etc. Book some big name hip-hop/R&B acts, the kind that can pack out a field: Future, Gambino, Migos.
Second, reevaluate your headliners based on your demographics. I doubt we see a headliner older than Foo Fighters next year. Also they must have a popular hip-hop/R&B/pop headliner if they hope to sell tickets. Katy Perry would be an excellent booking for an out-of-left-field choice, Beyonce would be an incredible booking if she continues to play festivals after Coachella next year. There is a lot of untapped headliner potential for large festivals in the pop music world, and I think both the youths and jaded festival vets would be stoked to see pop stars come in and shake things up a bit. Also, book Jay-Z or Drake. I think shifting the headliners a bit in this way will sell another 5-10k tickets.
Third, and maybe this is biased or self-serving, but I think to tap back into the jaded festival vet demographic and sell that next 5-10k tickets you gotta do what we are always crying about around here: book some interesting and/or unexpected undercard artists. Bring in Alice in Chains and put them in a LN tent. Have Boyz II Men on Which during the sunset. Have UB40 open a stage one day so we can lay in the sun during "Red Red Wine" and think "damn this is bizarre, Bonnaroo is back". Book two punk acts. Book one or two metal acts. Book one or two IDMish acts. Book a Wesley Willis coverband in the Christmas Barn.
Look at me giving this shit away for free. I should be a music festival consultant.
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 16, 2017 14:18:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure if the festival had more young people than past years or not. I saw plenty of older people. What did strike me coming in was how many families I saw together in the tollbooths. Like, kids that might have been in their late teens coming with their parents. I think U2 and RHCP are two of the best possible bands they could have booked to draw families like that. They're two of a small handful of bands that bridge that gap. Other ones I can think of are probably Foo Fighters, Waters, the Stones.. maybe Jay-Z, Fleetwood, Eagles, Pearl Jam on a lesser level. Those are like the opposite of LCD. I don't think hardly anyone under 20 or over 40 cares about LCD.
No offense but when people say PTM was THE set of the weekend, I can't help but have my doubts. The headlining groups have been fine for my tastes. I've seen most of the big names I want anyways so I'm usually more interested in the undercard. I think they will take a step back and steer it more towards Lolla/ACL.
No offense but when people say PTM was THE set of the weekend, I can't help but have my doubts. The headlining groups have been fine for my tastes. I've seen most of the big names I want anyways so I'm usually more interested in the undercard. I think they will take a step back and steer it more towards Lolla/ACL.
This. I know I've been a PTM hater recently, but I know they can play some great shows. But if that's the best show at roo, that's not a good sign.
No offense but when people say PTM was THE set of the weekend, I can't help but have my doubts. The headlining groups have been fine for my tastes. I've seen most of the big names I want anyways so I'm usually more interested in the undercard. I think they will take a step back and steer it more towards Lolla/ACL.
This. I know I've been a PTM hater recently, but I know they can play some great shows. But if that's the best show at roo, that's not a good sign.
I was on the outside of the tent and exhausted so I didn't have much of a connection emotionally to the set but the crowd in the tent was going bonkers. I can see that enthusiasm helping to define the weekend for them. (I'm only a casual fan so I don't really have any skin in the argument - is the live stream still hosted somewhere?)
This. I know I've been a PTM hater recently, but I know they can play some great shows. But if that's the best show at roo, that's not a good sign.
I was on the outside of the tent and exhausted so I didn't have much of a connection emotionally to the set but the crowd in the tent was going bonkers. I can see that enthusiasm helping to define the weekend for them. (I'm only a casual fan so I don't really have any skin in the argument - is the live stream still hosted somewhere?)
I'm just a hater. PTM was definitely one of my favorite shows from roo 09. I liked PTM and roo a lot more back then. I didn't even go this year.
Post by piggy pablo on Jun 16, 2017 15:09:19 GMT -5
Portugal the Man were just a lot of fun. They played some covers, were one of the few sets with guests, had some cool lasers (I'm a sucker for lasers) and other visual aspects to their show, and just overall rocked and played a great set. They treated the set like it was special, and that made it so. It was everything you want from a late night Bonnaroo set, unlike a certain similar band that played last year.
There's nothing weird to me that people thought it was one of the better sets of the weekend, and it's not like every other show was bad. All those people saw U2 also, who are a killer live act by any estimation. I for one also saw Turkuaz, Kidjo, The xx, Lorde, Car Seat Headrest.. Those sets were all phenomenal. I just happened to really appreciate Portugal. I don't think it should be used to make any pronouncements on the overall quality of the festival.
I was on the outside of the tent and exhausted so I didn't have much of a connection emotionally to the set but the crowd in the tent was going bonkers. I can see that enthusiasm helping to define the weekend for them. (I'm only a casual fan so I don't really have any skin in the argument - is the live stream still hosted somewhere?)
I'm just a hater. PTM was definitely one of my favorite shows from roo 09. I liked PTM and roo a lot more back then. I didn't even go this year.
That roo show in 09 was amazing. I went in not knowing who they were, got front row on rail and was blown away with their jams and talent as musicians. Why do you hate PTM now tho? I can understand if it's them being a more pop group now.
Might be considered a scrub, who cares lol, but I was only at PTM for about 15 minutes and wasn't feeling it from underneath the This Tent sign, if I had been in the crowd I could have definitely gotten into it but wasn't feeling like fighting the crowds. Walked over to the Other with my friends and that's were I discovered easily one of my favorite surprise acts, Claude VonStroke. Totally blown away, not even a big edm fan personally, but gah dang I could rage to that and have been listening nonstop since.
