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Well there's been great debate on what constitutes a 'headliner' and I personally consider Eminem and Jay-Z to be a headliner, and the Beastie Boys and Kanye West could also be considered headliners...my point was it would be okay to go a year without any really big names in hip-hop, whether you want to call them a headliner or not.
sigh......this again?
I consider the Superjam to be a headliner for 2011.....does that mean that Bonnaroo does as well?
Break it down to basics and your headliners are the three top acts listed (in 2009 you would list it like Bruce, Phish, Phish). Simple as that.
Well there's been great debate on what constitutes a 'headliner' and I personally consider Eminem and Jay-Z to be a headliner, and the Beastie Boys and Kanye West could also be considered headliners...my point was it would be okay to go a year without any really big names in hip-hop, whether you want to call them a headliner or not.
sigh......this again?
I consider the Superjam to be a headliner for 2011.....does that mean that Bonnaroo does as well?
Break it down to basics and your headliners are the three top acts listed (in 2009 you would list it like Bruce, Phish, Phish). Simple as that.
Not when there are co-headliners...ala MMJ/Arcade Fire or Jay-Z/Stevie...
Post by coanbread751 on Jun 17, 2011 13:12:37 GMT -5
I watched the show because I love music and was upset that I was missing Roo this year so I watched most of the webcast.
I'm not saying at all that Roo should only book bands that I enjoy...I didn't realize that it had become illegal on these boards to post your opinion. That is like going into a "Who do you want at Roo?" thread and telling them that they shouldn't post because Roo is not about who YOU want to see. If someone wants to say that Superfly shouldn't waste their money on Radiohead and should book Muse instead...that's fine because that is THEIR OPINION.
And yes, when I say "better hip hop" I do mean "hip hop that I like". It's my opinion. You guys seem to think that I'm making personal attacks on the people who enjoyed Wiz's show, which simply isn't the case. If it was my decision he wouldn't be on the lineup...but it isn't my decision and it isn't yours either. If we are going to use that kind of logic then we might as well shut down every part of this forum except the logistics area since none of us have any control over how things work out and our opinions are worthless.
I watched the show because I love music and was upset that I was missing Roo this year so I watched most of the webcast.
Fair enough.....I just would have done something else during acts I didn't care about.
I'm not saying at all that Roo should only book bands that I enjoy...I didn't realize that it had become illegal on these boards to post your opinion.
Are you being arrested right now lol? Who said it was illegal? We are having a discussion. No need to feel like you're being attacked. It's literally just back and forth talk.
That is like going into a "Who do you want at Roo?" thread and telling them that they shouldn't post because Roo is not about who YOU want to see.
Who does that? That'd be dumb.
If someone wants to say that Superfly shouldn't waste their money on Radiohead and should book Muse instead...that's fine because that is THEIR OPINION.
They certainly can. If you read my post I stated that other people have done this in the past and that I don't understand why the money/financials side of it is brought in. If you would rather see Muse over Radiohead....cool. But what does the money Roo spends have to do with it? If they don't "waste" their money on an act like Radiohead then they'll likely "waste" it on some other act (or acts) that you may not want to see either.
And yes, when I say "better hip hop" I do mean "hip hop that I like". It's my opinion.
So then say something like "i'd rather see" or "i'd prefer". When you start talking in absolutes like "these guys aren't good, others are better" then you start to make it seem like only the stuff you like is "good" or "better than what we currently have". On the internet, small differences in your word choice can make a post seem different.
You guys seem to think that I'm making personal attacks on the people who enjoyed Wiz's show, which simply isn't the case.
I don't know about others, but I wasn't thinking that. I was more intrigued by the idea of you complaining about a show you knew you wouldn't like but chose to watch on your computer. Seemed silly to me. If you replaced "Wiz" with "Ratatat" or any other artist I would have responded in a similar fashion.
If it was my decision he wouldn't be on the lineup...but it isn't my decision and it isn't yours either. If we are going to use that kind of logic then we might as well shut down every part of this forum except the logistics area since none of us have any control over how things work out and our opinions are worthless.
You're really taking this too hard man. Nobody said your opinions are worthless. The point of this entire forum is to generate discussion. Don't let it bother you so much when someone disagrees with you or comments on what you posted. We're here to go back and forth, have debates/discussions, share thoughts/opinions.
Personally, I was trying to find out more about the situation and why you felt this way. There's really no need to take it like I'm saying "your opinions don't count....don't post anymore". Just sit back and relax. Just because someone responds to your posts or questions you doesn't mean it's an attack or that your opinion means any less. This is all just discussion about the festival.
Post by Mista Don't Play on Jun 17, 2011 15:31:59 GMT -5
If you guys consider Phish the Friday headliner in 09, then Jay-Z should be considered a headliner as well. I think both sets were unopposed for about half their time. Jay-Z started around 1130 and I don't think any of the late nights were scheduled to start before 1230. I know Phish started at 11, but I don't remember what time the late nights got started.
If you guys consider Phish the Friday headliner in 09, then Jay-Z should be considered a headliner as well. I think both sets were unopposed for about half their time. Jay-Z started around 1130 and I don't think any of the late nights were scheduled to start before 1230. I know Phish started at 11, but I don't remember what time the late nights got started.
Jay-Z was considered a late night act by Bonnaroo. Also, he was listed 4th. That's the difference.
Post by Mista Don't Play on Jun 17, 2011 15:46:18 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure at the time of the initial announcement in 09 Bonnaroo's release said Phish would be playing 2 sets, one a late night on the What stage. Also if you are going by the first three names on the lineup then Beastie Boys would be considered a headliner. Or you could say there was no Friday headliner since no one played unopposed. Its definitely murky when coming to a direct conclusion. I am more likely to consider Jay-Z a headliner than Beasties, but I wouldn't argue with saying either were.
I know this isn't official but it supports the idea that Bonnaroo announced Phish as a late night at the time of the announcement ..http://www.jambase.com/Articles/16533/Bonnaroo-2009-Lineup
I'm pretty sure at the time of the initial announcement in 09 Bonnaroo's release said Phish would be playing 2 sets, one a late night on the What stage. Also if you are going by the first three names on the lineup then Beastie Boys would be considered a headliner. Or you could say there was no Friday headliner since no one played unopposed. Its definitely murky when coming to a direct conclusion. I am more likely to consider Jay-Z a headliner than Beasties, but I wouldn't argue with saying either were.
I know this isn't official but it supports the idea that Bonnaroo announced Phish as a late night at the time of the announcement ..http://www.jambase.com/Articles/16533/Bonnaroo-2009-Lineup
They don't have the news article on Bonnaroo.com anymore but I remember they made a post that specifically said the 2009 headliners were Phish and Bruce. They made a point to say it was the first ever "late night headlining" slot.
The 2009 lineup technically is "Bruce Springsteen - Phish - Phish"
Here are two links from media sites that took their info from Bonnaroo.com and they mention the headliners being Phish and Bruce
Post by RadioSpirit on Jun 17, 2011 15:58:41 GMT -5
I would argue that either the Beastie Boys were the headliner, or there was no Friday headliner. Bonnaroo referred to Phish's Friday show in the same way they did Jay-Z's, a special "Late Night". Bonnaroo stating that Bruce and Phish were the headliners just lends credence to the fact that no single band headlined Friday in 2009. Phish conflicted with multiple other late nights, and did not have the prime spot that Beastie Boys enjoyed. Obviously, even if they considered one Phish show as a headlining gig, and the other not, they were still going to list Phish's sets under one name, you wouldn't see: Bruce Springsteen - Phish - Beastie Boys - Phish (again)
I would argue that either the Beastie Boys were the headliner, or there was no Friday headliner. Bonnaroo referred to Phish's Friday show in the same way they did Jay-Z's, a special "Late Night". Bonnaroo stating that Bruce and Phish were the headliners just lends credence to the fact that no single band headlined Friday in 2009. Phish conflicted with multiple other late nights, and did not have the prime spot that Beastie Boys enjoyed. Obviously, even if they considered one Phish show as a headlining gig, and the other not, they were still going to list Phish's sets under one name, you wouldn't see: Bruce Springsteen - Phish - Beastie Boys - Phish (again)
I'm like 98% sure that Bonnaroo.com used the word "headlining" when talking about Phish's late night meanwhile Jay-Z was included in the list of regular late night acts.
If only Bonnaroo.com didn't remove the old news articles. google is being a biznatch as well.
Edit: SUCCESS!
I found a news site that copied and pasted the original article from Bonnaroo.com. The news article posted on their site was to announce the headliner dates for 2009:
Phish will be performing on the Friday and Sunday of the festival weekend. The Friday show will be a special late night performance and the Sunday show will close out the weekend. Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band will be performing on Saturday. Look for more details coming soon!
There was no mention at all about Beasties.
This was from Bonnaroo.com. In an article that announced when the headliners would play. I remember this so vividly because in 2009 I used the same article to point out who Roo labeled as the headliners.
Post by RadioSpirit on Jun 17, 2011 16:15:09 GMT -5
Glad you finally found that because I've been searching like crazy for that specific article as well. But I guess it just goes to show the futility of this argument, because I read that as proving exactly what I just said about Phish's Friday show being a "special late night performance" not a headlining performance like their Sunday showed that closed out the weekend.
Basically, people will look at how they will. I personally think that there was no Friday night "headliner" and that 2009's headliners were Bruce and Phish.
Others will interpret it differently, and that's fine, it really doesn't have any real significance.
Glad you finally found that because I've been searching like crazy for that specific article as well. But I guess it just goes to show the futility of this argument, because I read that as proving exactly what I just said about Phish's Friday show being a "special late night performance" not a headlining performance like their Sunday showed that closed out the weekend.
But it was an article that announced when the headliners would play. It was specifically about what headliners would play what night (because there was a lot of debate over when Bruce would play and if Phish would get two nights in a row). If Beastie Boys were headliners then they would have been mentioned in that article.
And you are right....this doesn't really matter. It just annoys me.
But it was an article that announced when the headliners would play. It was specifically about what headliners would play what night (because there was a lot of debate over when Bruce would play and if Phish would get two nights in a row). If Beastie Boys were headliners then they would have been mentioned in that article.
And you are right....this doesn't really matter. It just annoys me.
Well, I agree with you that The Beastie Boys weren't headliners, I don't think anyone headlined Friday Night. I agree that the article was announcing when the headliners (Bruce and Phish) would play, saying Bruce had the Saturday spot and Phish had the Sunday spot, while their second set would be a Special Late Night performance. Bruce and Phish were the headliners, and they were announcing their set times, including Phish's non-headlining set. The main thing to me is that the majority of Phish's "Friday" set took place Saturday morning, and the majority of it was opposed by acts playing all three of the tents. That's completely unlike any other headliner set in the history of Bonnaroo. To me the headliner is the act that plays the What Stage at the prime spot that evening while completely unopposed (Excluding the cafes). Phish didn't meet any of this criteria. My only argument about the Beastie Boys is that they come closer to actually fitting the technical definition, in that they played durng the headliner's normal time and on the main stage, but they were opposed by a Which Stage Act. So I really think that there was no tradition headliner in Friday 2009.
It's true this doesn't matter, but honestly, if it wasn't for stupid, meaningless arguments, the Troo Music Lounge would not exist.
I just want to say, I'm watching Lil' Wayne's "Unplugged" show right now, and if he had rolled out this set up, with the great band he's got, and played this style show, there would have been zero complaints. I know that's neither here nor there, but...
I recorded that the other day. Hoping to getting around to watching sometime this weekend.
I just want to say, I'm watching Lil' Wayne's "Unplugged" show right now, and if he had rolled out this set up, with the great band he's got, and played this style show, there would have been zero complaints. I know that's neither here nor there, but...
I recorded that the other day. Hoping to getting around to watching sometime this weekend.
They have been playing it on MTV2 pretty regularly.
Thanks
In the spirit of this thread, I'd like to place my vote for 3 6 Mafia for LN Which Stage 2012. They're from Tennessee and won an Academy Award, they seem like a natural fit! I'm always kind of surprised every year to see their absence on the lineup. Bonus points to AC if the show features Lil Wyte.
This was my first year at Bonnaroo so I can't really speak on past years.
I did however see Jay-z and Eminem both in Detroit last year and can say Jay-z puts on an AMAZING show. Em on the other hand.... I much rather have seen Jay again this year, or Kanye... but I'm sure he will never be back to Roo.
There aren't that many hip hop acts that are THAT popular who I'd want to see be big headliners other than those 2.
Anyone who was at the J. Cole show Thursday knows he put on a great show, maybe someday he can be a big enough name to perform on the what stage... *fingers crossed.*
I think Kid Cudi would have been much better than Wiz, saw Cudi live in October and is a one of the better performers I've seen in Hip Hop.
That's the depressing thing about Hip Hop though, the best artists in Hip Hop just aren't very well known.
Maybe next year we could get Jay/Kanye for Watch the Throne, would be EPIC.
I just want to say, I'm watching Lil' Wayne's "Unplugged" show right now, and if he had rolled out this set up, with the great band he's got, and played this style show, there would have been zero complaints. I know that's neither here nor there, but...
I was so disappointed with Wayne's set. I'm not a huge Wayne fan by any means but he does have some great tracks. That show appealed to much to the casual radio listener. We left halfway through it was so awful. Didn't even get to see him do 6'7".
This is the same reason I was disappointed with the Eminem set though, wheres Criminal? Wheres I just Don't Give a? Instead half the set was spent promoting Recovery and how big a deal it is he's back again. He did the SAME exact set when I saw him in Detroit. Such a disappointment.
I just want to say, I'm watching Lil' Wayne's "Unplugged" show right now, and if he had rolled out this set up, with the great band he's got, and played this style show, there would have been zero complaints. I know that's neither here nor there, but...
I was so disappointed with Wayne's set. I'm not a huge Wayne fan by any means but he does have some great tracks. That show appealed to much to the casual radio listener. We left halfway through it was so awful. Didn't even get to see him do 6'7".
This is the same reason I was disappointed with the Eminem set though, wheres Criminal? Wheres I just Don't Give a? Instead half the set was spent promoting Recovery and how big a deal it is he's back again. He did the SAME exact set when I saw him in Detroit. Such a disappointment.
Very good point. I was hoping for a lot more than just the hits. There were a few, but not really much. Eminem played my favorite of his songs, Sing for the Moment, and then cut out after 1 verse. That was heart-breaking.
I think Kid Cudi would have been much better than Wiz, saw Cudi live in October and is a one of the better performers I've seen in Hip Hop.
Really? I saw him at Roo in 2010 and he was absolutely horrible. This is coming from someone who really liked his first album a lot. I don't like Wiz's music at all and was shocked to see him on What. He put on a great show though and was so much more energetic than Cudi.
I'll never forgive myself for leaving Flaming Lips early...
I think Kid Cudi would have been much better than Wiz, saw Cudi live in October and is a one of the better performers I've seen in Hip Hop.
Really? I saw him at Roo in 2010 and he was absolutely horrible. This is coming from someone who really liked his first album a lot. I don't like Wiz's music at all and was shocked to see him on What. He put on a great show though and was so much more energetic than Cudi.
I'll never forgive myself for leaving Flaming Lips early...
I've heard this, my friend saw he was awful last year @ roo. He went to jail the night before for cocaine possession and was at a low in his life. My friend saw him with my in October and saw him before roo and said he killed it both times but he almost lost a fan cause of Roo. So maybe that was just a bad night for him.