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Hip Hop is not the problem. Jay-z had one of the best sets I've ever seen in my 5 years at roo and in general one of the best shows I've seen. Also Lupe Fiasco came on year and that was a stellar performance as well.
Eminem, Lil Wayne, and Wiz Khalifa are just horrible performers. As much as I hate commercial music, there are songs that I like by each of those artists...and thats hard for me to admit openly. You can have a good fan base and some good songs but if you don't have a remotely decent live show you should not even be invited to Roo. Up until recent years it seemed like Superfly had a standard for artists they would bring no matter what genre of music, and now they seem to sacrificing that to sell tickets.
I can't comment because I wasn't there, but a lot of people who saw Wiz Khalifa are saying he put on a surprising performance that was one of the best they saw. As for Em and Wayne, it seems split 50/50 or 60/40 - some loved it, some hated it. And both have had their share of reviews discussing how excellent they are live. You seem to be making a blanket statement based off of your own personal preferences, which doesn't really help anyone but you here.
Yeah Wiz killed it. I'm willing to bet this person wasn't at his set because I don't see how, out of all things, you could call out his performance skills. He kept the crowd amped the whole time and delivered every lyric clearly and bounced from track to track seamlessly.
Attention: Your underground cred won't be spoiled by having fun at a Wiz set.
Rap just does not translate as well live. At least Eminem doesn't. I don't care if it was lip synching, back tracking, or whatever...the whole thing with saying a whole line and then letting the "hype man" finish the last word just sounded really choppy and bad. Like...it sounded BADDD.
Post by coanbread751 on Jun 17, 2011 11:26:22 GMT -5
Wiz was quacking awful. All he did was hype the crowd and walk back and forth talking about weed and "TG" the whole time. There was at least 20 different times that he got the crowd to chant "TAYLOR GANG TAYLOR GANG"...."WHO IS GETTING quacked UP IN HERE!?!?!?!?" "WEED WEED WEED WEED"
Also, I disagree with the "mainstream" sentiment...I just ask that we get some decent performers back on the farm. I have seen so many fantastic hip hop shows at roo over the years...Eminem and Wayne just aren't cutting it. I have said it before (and this applies to all genres at Roo) but it seems that Bonnaroo always sets themselves apart from other fests because they book bands/artists that are fantastic live performers that know how to bring it to a festival setting. The past two years has been severely lacking in that department... particularly in the "bigger hip hop acts" category. (NOT INCLUDING JAY Z)
Wiz was quacking awful. All he did was hype the crowd and walk back and forth talking about weed and "TG" the whole time. There was at least 20 different times that he got the crowd to chant "TAYLOR GANG TAYLOR GANG"...."WHO IS GETTING quacked UP IN HERE!?!?!?!?" "WEED WEED WEED WEED"
Wiz was quacking awful. All he did was hype the crowd and walk back and forth talking about weed and "TG" the whole time. There was at least 20 different times that he got the crowd to chant "TAYLOR GANG TAYLOR GANG"...."WHO IS GETTING quacked UP IN HERE!?!?!?!?" "WEED WEED WEED WEED"
Um, were you there? Rappers do this in between songs, but it was not all he did. I went there to get a good spot for Robert Plant, so I was expecting next to nothing from Wiz. I was pleasantly surprised with how good he was live. Yes, he hyped up the crowd, but is that a bad thing? Don't you want the crowd to be into the performance?
I prefer Wu-Tang in smaller doses. When they're all on stage it can get a bit..unwieldy. I prefer Ghost solo, Rae & Ghost, Wu-Massacre, Meth/ Meth & Red, that kind of thing.
I've seen the entire clan twice, and both times it was kind of clumsy. They obviously can rap to their songs, but in terms of hyping the crowd up and stuff, they were constantly stepping on each others toes. It seemed they were cutting each others monologues off as well.
My ideal Wu-set would be the Wu-Massacre guys performing that album plus an array of other Wu songs. I could see those guys and RZA teaming up for a four-man show, which would send me into a frenzy.
Wiz was quacking awful. All he did was hype the crowd and walk back and forth talking about weed and "TG" the whole time. There was at least 20 different times that he got the crowd to chant "TAYLOR GANG TAYLOR GANG"...."WHO IS GETTING quacked UP IN HERE!?!?!?!?" "WEED WEED WEED WEED"
Um, were you there? Rappers do this in between songs, but it was not all he did. I went there to get a good spot for Robert Plant, so I was expecting next to nothing from Wiz. I was pleasantly surprised with how good he was live. Yes, he hyped up the crowd, but is that a bad thing? Don't you want the crowd to be into the performance?
The past two years has been severely lacking in that department... particularly in the "bigger hip hop acts" category. (NOT INCLUDING JAY Z)
So aside from one of the two headlining hip-hop acts, the past two years have been lacking in terms of headlining hip-hop acts? Got it.
Of course that isn't all he did, but jesus it got old quick. No need to talk to me like I am a child. I understand how hip hop shows work, I have seen quite a few of them, just trying to express an opinion/make a point without sounding like a jerk. All I'm saying is there are other ways to get the audience hyped....you know...like...playing good music/being a good performer (See: Big Boi, Atmosphere, J5, Jay Z, De La Soul and countless other great hip hop acts that have been on the farm.) I know that this is obvious but just because an artists/group has some good songs doesn't mean that they are going to translate well live....I'm sorry if your music fits into that category but please don't try to false hype me by getting me to chant irreverent things and try to sound cool by telling me how high you are And I said nothing about "headliners" (dumb argument on these boards that really needs to end) I'm just talking about....actually just go ahead and throw this part of my argument out because it's just going to end in a pissing contest. My point is that I want better live hip hop...hell, I WANT MORE HIP HOP. I just want it to be good hip hop from good performers.
Well, the first years sold out on strictly jam bands, so yeah, I could see that happening...
Times have changed, in a big way. The festival scene was nascent in 2002, and having the focus on jambands made sense at the time because fans of that genre were already somewhat accustomed to the idea of traveling long distances and camping for shows, plus they already had a good word of mouth infrastructure set up. Now, festivals are more prevalent than ever, and there's no need to dedicate the biggest fests to any one genre. To say nothing of the fact that the proliferation of festivals have resulted in any number of smaller, jam-oriented festivals which would obviate the need for anyone to go to a massive jam fest like Bonnaroo was in 2002.
Neither Kanye, nor the Beastie Boys, nor Jay-Z, nor Lil' Wayne, nor Big Boi were headliners. In fact, the only time a headlining spot has been taken by a "non-rock" act (I'm assuming you'll allow Stevie Wonder in that category) was Eminem this year. 29 out of 30 Bonnaroo headliners have been some form of rock and roll. But yeah, they're really gotten away from it.
I think it's pretty clear that you don't at all.
On the contrary, I've seen more praise about Jay-Z's set on these boards than I have for almost any other act. Hell, plenty of people who went into Bonnaroo 2010 skeptical that a hip-hop act that big would work came away with a newfound appreciation for how a skilled MC can put on a phenomenal show. I'd say there were plenty of "life-changing" experiences that happened during Jay-Z's set, based on the empirical evidence I've seen around here. What exactly are you basing your statements on, other than your own preferences and prejudices?
And by the way, your opinions are only your own here. I hated almost every minute of Tool, thought it was boring, slow and sleep-inducing, so what's "epic" to one may not be to anyone else.
Yes, because those terrible greedy expensive rappers gobble up all the money and there's nothing left for rock and roll! This year, I counted 9 rap acts on the bill, out of how many, 90+? Last year, there were 6. In 2009, there were 6. In 2008, 5. In 2007, 5. In 2006, 6. So in any given year, it's been less than 10% of the bill that's dedicated to hip-hop, and by and large most of those artists don't appear on the top two lines of the lineup, so they likely aren't costing a ton.
Just of curiosity, have you looked up numbers for how typically expensive certain bands are to book? How much do you think, say, The Police cost in 2007? Just wondering.
Actually, it sounds like you've said that in any number of places here.
but I disagree with the sentiment that there needs to be a hip-hop headliner every year.
I don't think anyone has ever said that there needs to be a hip-hop headliner every year. We've only ever had one, and I can't think of any place on this forum where someone has argued that there NEEDS to be one every year. Usually it's quite the opposite - people seem to have no problem with having the same recycled jambands closing out the fest ever year, yet cower under their afghans at the idea of some brash hippity-hoppers taking the main stage two years in a row.
Jesus man...wasn't trying to start a big internet argument lolz. Let me clarify:
I'm not advocating turing Roo back in time to 2002...I personally don't really like jam bands that much, although I did enjoy Phish in 2009. I was just pointing out that having huge marquee hip-hop names isn't the only way to sell out Bonnaroo.
All I'm saying is that going a year without a hip-hop headliner would be totally cool with a lot of people because it opens up bigger slots for more \m/ ala 2006 and 2007.
And I do love hip-hop. Kanye would be a great headliner but I doubt he'll ever play Bonnaroo again.
Um, were you there? Rappers do this in between songs, but it was not all he did. I went there to get a good spot for Robert Plant, so I was expecting next to nothing from Wiz. I was pleasantly surprised with how good he was live. Yes, he hyped up the crowd, but is that a bad thing? Don't you want the crowd to be into the performance?
So aside from one of the two headlining hip-hop acts, the past two years have been lacking in terms of headlining hip-hop acts? Got it.
Of course that isn't all he did, but jesus it got old quick. No need to talk to me like I am a child. I understand how hip hop shows work, I have seen quite a few of them, just trying to express an opinion/make a point without sounding like a jerk. All I'm saying is there are other ways to get the audience hyped....you know...like...playing good music/being a good performer (See: Big Boi, Atmosphere, J5, Jay Z, De La Soul and countless other great hip hop acts that have been on the farm.) I know that this is obvious but just because an artists/group has some good songs doesn't mean that they are going to translate well live....I'm sorry if your music fits into that category but please don't try to false hype me by getting me to chant irreverent things and try to sound cool by telling me how high you are
If you didn't like the show.....why'd you keep watching?
Of course that isn't all he did, but jesus it got old quick. No need to talk to me like I am a child. I understand how hip hop shows work, I have seen quite a few of them, just trying to express an opinion/make a point without sounding like a jerk. All I'm saying is there are other ways to get the audience hyped....you know...like...playing good music/being a good performer (See: Big Boi, Atmosphere, J5, Jay Z, De La Soul and countless other great hip hop acts that have been on the farm.) I know that this is obvious but just because an artists/group has some good songs doesn't mean that they are going to translate well live....I'm sorry if your music fits into that category but please don't try to false hype me by getting me to chant irreverent things and try to sound cool by telling me how high you are And I said nothing about "headliners" (dumb argument on these boards that really needs to end) I'm just talking about....actually just go ahead and throw this part of my argument out because it's just going to end in a pissing contest. My point is that I want better live hip hop...hell, I WANT MORE HIP HOP. I just want it to be good hip hop from good performers.
Well, I didn't speak to you like a child, so I don't know where you got that from. But when you make a statement about the "past two years" and then exclude the biggest/best act from the past two years, it's kind of silly, no?
And for the record, Big Boi, Atmosphere, and Jay-Z all hyped the crowd at Roo (I didn't see the other Roo sets you mentioned). A J5 concert is like 50% hyping.
No, you didn't say "headliners", you said "bigger hip-hop acts" and then excluded the biggest hip-hop act (and greatest hip-hop performance) they've ever had, which coincidentally came "in the past two years".
Wiz's crowd was into it, singing along, dancing, lighting up, and enjoying his set. I'm sorry you weren't, but as has been mentioned, you weren't forced to be there. No one chained you to the rail and force-fed you a Wiz show.
Wiz is a plus lyricist with a great deal of energy. He was having fun up there (like at the "they're throwing corn on the stage" part) and the fans were having fun with him. Again, I expected this set to be bad, and it wasn't. And also, Wiz isn't a "bigger hip-hop act" so I don't see what Jay-Z/Eminem have to do with a guy playing a mid-afternoon set.
I'm not advocating turing Roo back in time to 2002...I personally don't really like jam bands that much, although I did enjoy Phish in 2009. I was just pointing out that having huge marquee hip-hop names isn't the only way to sell out Bonnaroo.
All I'm saying is that going a year without a hip-hop headliner would be totally cool with a lot of people because it opens up bigger slots for more \m/ ala 2006 and 2007.
And I do love hip-hop. Kanye would be a great headliner but I doubt he'll ever play Bonnaroo again.
Did you even read any of Jugg's post? If you did, you'd see his point about how there has only been one hip hop headliner so for you to say they should go a year without one is just silly.
Post by theshining on Jun 17, 2011 12:36:51 GMT -5
Bonnaroo is not getting rid of any genres in the coming years. I would say that just the opposite is true, that they will just keep adding artists from unique subgenres or as of now under represented genres.
That being said, hasn't the division of headline/ stage late night hip hop acts been more or less cleaned out by now?
I remember a big thread of people wanting Odd Future added to the Roo 11 lineup. Look at the Coachella reviews......basically they walk around on stage unrehearsed spouting off about weed and bitches with some muddy background beats, repeat, repeat. NO THANKS
Childish Gambino. I gave him 3 or 4 songs until I couldn't take anymore. I do give him props because he was actually rapping with a live mic and not lip syncing.
Let's hug it out and rage Tribe together next year.
My god that would be amazing. (Seen the trailer for the new ATCQ documentary? Looks great).
Look guys, I understand all of your points. I was not forced to be there (in fact I wasn't there I watched it on the webcast from home...although if I would have been there I would have stayed because there is no way that would have been as bad as the Mumford and Sons crowd). I have no problem with Wiz being there in fact. He just isn't for me. There are always shows that you have no interest in seeing but someone else does...and that is fine. My argument is simply that IN MY OPINION they should spend their money on better hip hop then what they have been giving us lately. That is all. Will they listen to me...of course not because I have no say in the matter and they obviously know what they are doing.
This is a forum to discuss Bonnaroo, a festival that we all love and have strong opinions about. I'm just throwing out my thoughts on where they should be focusing their money when it comes to hip hop acts. I'm not trying to tell you that you didn't have a great time at the Wiz show....I just don't understand how that type of show = a good time for you. I'm not saying you are dumb for enjoying it.....I just don't understand it.
I remember a big thread of people wanting Odd Future added to the Roo 11 lineup. Look at the Coachella reviews......basically they walk around on stage unrehearsed spouting off about weed and bitches with some muddy background beats, repeat, repeat. NO THANKS
They know their shows suck and are working to make them better. Tyler has mentioned as much on his twitter. Same thing with MGMT when they first started (they realized their stage show wasn't great). They are thrust into the limelight while they are being buzzed about but they aren't really ready.
Give it some times and OF will likely have a better concert performance. Plus, I read mixed reviews about their Coachella show. Lots of people enjoy the energy and excitement they bring to the stage, even if it doesn't sound that amazing.
Also, there are tons of other acts at roo.....so why should it bother you if one slot is taken up by a rap group you dislike? Just go see other shows during them.
Let's hug it out and rage Tribe together next year.
My god that would be amazing. (Seen the trailer for the new ATCQ documentary? Looks great).
Look guys, I understand all of your points. I was not forced to be there (in fact I wasn't there I watched it on the webcast from home...although if I would have been there I would have stayed because there is no way that would have been as bad as the Mumford and Sons crowd). I have no problem with Wiz being there in fact. He just isn't for me. There are always shows that you have no interest in seeing but someone else does...and that is fine. My argument is simply that IN MY OPINION they should spend their money on better hip hop then what they have been giving us lately. That is all. Will they listen to me...of course not because I have no say in the matter and they obviously know what they are doing.
This is a forum to discuss Bonnaroo, a festival that we all love and have strong opinions about. I'm just throwing out my thoughts on where they should be focusing their money when it comes to hip hop acts. I'm not trying to tell you that you didn't have a great time at the Wiz show....I just don't understand how that type of show = a good time for you. I'm not saying you are dumb for enjoying it.....I just don't understand it.
From the sounds of it, by "better acts" you mean older, 90's-era acts. I (and I would assume everyone else here) would have no issue with that. Would I have preferred Rakim to Chiddy Bang? Absolutely. But is Rakim going to come and play the Chiddy Bang mid-afternoon set for what Chiddy plays it for? Of course not.
I would love a throwback Roo hip-hop lineup, but the fact is that this festival's crowd is getting younger and younger and those acts won't resonate with a lot of them. I know on here that is not the case, but people on here generally have better taste in music than 19 year old college freshmen who think Waka Flocka Flame is an elite rapper.
I'm not advocating turing Roo back in time to 2002...I personally don't really like jam bands that much, although I did enjoy Phish in 2009. I was just pointing out that having huge marquee hip-hop names isn't the only way to sell out Bonnaroo.
All I'm saying is that going a year without a hip-hop headliner would be totally cool with a lot of people because it opens up bigger slots for more \m/ ala 2006 and 2007.
And I do love hip-hop. Kanye would be a great headliner but I doubt he'll ever play Bonnaroo again.
Did you even read any of Jugg's post? If you did, you'd see his point about how there has only been one hip hop headliner so for you to say they should go a year without one is just silly.
Well there's been great debate on what constitutes a 'headliner' and I personally consider Eminem and Jay-Z to be a headliner, and the Beastie Boys and Kanye West could also be considered headliners...my point was it would be okay to go a year without any really big names in hip-hop, whether you want to call them a headliner or not.
Post by coanbread751 on Jun 17, 2011 12:49:15 GMT -5
Not necessarily...I just want acts that have proven themselves to be good live. I have seen a lot of throw back shows that were absolutely horrific. I just want good performers. If Wiz was a better performer than I would welcome him back with open arms.....similar to what Mokeys said about MGMT in 08. They were big and got put on the lineup simply because of hype...and then stunk up the place. I just want acts that are proven to be good live performers.
Look guys, I understand all of your points. I was not forced to be there (in fact I wasn't there I watched it on the webcast from home...although if I would have been there I would have stayed because there is no way that would have been as bad as the Mumford and Sons crowd). I have no problem with Wiz being there in fact. He just isn't for me. There are always shows that you have no interest in seeing but someone else does...and that is fine.
lol
So you're complaining about an artist you don't like and his show that you didn't want to watch to begin with but chose to anyway....and you weren't there live which definitely has an impact on how into the show you can be?
When there are artists I know I don't like and shows I know I don't want to see.....I just ignore them. There are tons of bands I had no real interest in at Roo this year so I just avoided them. If i'm at home and there's a webcast of an artist/show I dislike.....why would I watch it?
I understand if there's an act on before the act you want to see......but what's your excuse? You watched it from your home so you actively chose to view something you dislike.
Just seems silly to me
My argument is simply that IN MY OPINION they should spend their money on better hip hop then what they have been giving us lately. That is all. Will they listen to me...of course not because I have no say in the matter and they obviously know what they are doing.
The Knux, Big Boi, J. Cole, and Childish Gambino all got rave reviews for their shows. There was a lot of happy people who watched their sets. Do you dislike all of those acts?
Seems like you're using "better hip hop" in place of "hip hop i'd personally like more".
This is a forum to discuss Bonnaroo, a festival that we all love and have strong opinions about. I'm just throwing out my thoughts on where they should be focusing their money when it comes to hip hop acts. I'm not trying to tell you that you didn't have a great time at the Wiz show....I just don't understand how that type of show = a good time for you. I'm not saying you are dumb for enjoying it.....I just don't understand it.
People always bring up the argument that Roo "shouldn't spend their money on this" or are worried about what Bonnaroo is wasting money on. I don't see why anyone who isn't on the board of directors should really be so worried about where their money goes.
I don't understand how certain people have a good time at certain shows either......but i'm not going to try and say that those people should be denied that show. To me, what you're saying is something along the lines of "Your good time isn't the same as my good time....so we shouldn't book the guys that you had a good time at anymore."
Post by opieleptic on Jun 17, 2011 12:53:44 GMT -5
Why did Lil Wayne not have several special guests with him? I've always heard he brings some calvary with him and from what I've heard, he didn't bring anyone.
7/2 - Lotus, MiMoSa, The New Deal, The Glitch Mob 7/3 - Red Rocks and Blue II w/ Umphrey's Mcgee and Easy Star All Stars 7/4 - Umphrey's Mcgee Boulder, CO