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Post by kikosanchez on Nov 28, 2012 21:45:10 GMT -5
Here's an added bonus that comes with Gruden which may be quite unique for this one-time situation - who else do you think could make Hunter, Patterson, and Bray all return for one more year? All 3 have basically said they're waiting to decide till they know who the next coach will be. Which means if it's Dooley Jr, all 3 will likely bolt. If it's Gruden, I bet at least 2 of them would stay. If Bray doesn't stay, we do have a couple of nice 80-83 recruited QBs coming in. Worley definitely doesn't do it for me though.
And Louisville got invited to the ACC. I imagine UConn and Cincy aren't far behind. The Big East must die. I hear what's left might just become a basketball priority conference for Catholic schools - since that'll be all that's left by that point.
Not sure, maybe one of you can explain it, but why is UT so set on Gruden as your HC? He is not a college football coach, why do you think he would want coach UT? There are some NFL HC jobs gonna be available this year and I think he would go there before he stepped down into the SEC. Just my two cents. Good luck with whom ever you get, but I do not think it will be Gruden.
LD, I guess I will say this now, 2013 ACC Champs: Louisville. and yes, Bama would have destroyed OSU in the NC game. OSU could have beaten ND, but not Bama. and yes, I say Bama, because they will beat UGA this week.
EDIT: above prediction depends on if Charlie Stong coaches at Louisville or Auburn next year.
Louisville isn't going to win the acc(unless fsu and Clemson leave). they are an upgrade from maryland though.
When I first wrote that, I was being more funny than truth, but after looking at the conference I totally believe Louisville could take the Costal conference.
Against Alabama? Yeah, probably. But it wouldn't be against Alabama.
True, it may have not been Bama, if both OSU and ND were undefeated, but with one loss Bama is still better than OSU and ND. I say that and I hate Bama. I think the sanctions brought OSU together as a group. They had the "we are one" attitude, "us against the world". If they were not on probation, then I do not think they would have went undefeated. No way to prove this, but I believe them not being able to play post season, brought them closer as a group. and yes OSU could beat ND. When do we get a playoff?
Not sure, maybe one of you can explain it, but why is UT so set on Gruden as your HC? He is not a college football coach, why do you think he would want coach UT? There are some NFL HC jobs gonna be available this year and I think he would go there before he stepped down into the SEC. Just my two cents. Good luck with whom ever you get, but I do not think it will be Gruden.
I am not one of the Grudenites, but I have heard the argument enough.
1) He's famous. 2) Due to his fame, he will recruit at will. 3) He has a Super Bowl ring. 4) He has a .558ish winning percentage in the pros which is better than Saban and Spurrier, so he is a better coach than them. 5) Since he is NFL, he will bring top shelf assistants.
Those are the biggest ones I keep hearing. As you alluded to, this all goes off the delusion that a coach in demand will skip probably multiple pro offers to coach at a college because that is where his first job was and his wife was a cheerleader there. There are numerous other options that are way more realistic, but don't get any discussion because everyone's head is so full with Gruden dreams.
Not sure, maybe one of you can explain it, but why is UT so set on Gruden as your HC? He is not a college football coach, why do you think he would want coach UT? There are some NFL HC jobs gonna be available this year and I think he would go there before he stepped down into the SEC. Just my two cents. Good luck with whom ever you get, but I do not think it will be Gruden.
I am not one of the Grudenites, but I have heard the argument enough.
1) He's famous. 2) Due to his fame, he will recruit at will. 3) He has a Super Bowl ring. 4) He has a .558ish winning percentage in the pros which is better than Saban and Spurrier, so he is a better coach than them. 5) Since he is NFL, he will bring top shelf assistants.
Those are the biggest ones I keep hearing. As you alluded to, this all goes off the delusion that a coach in demand will skip probably multiple pro offers to coach at a college because that is where his first job was and his wife was a cheerleader there. There are numerous other options that are way more realistic, but don't get any discussion because everyone's head is so full with Gruden dreams.
I will add that he has become a forbidden fruit over the years, as he is always associated with vacancies but no one ever gets him. People always want what no one can have...
And Louisville got invited to the ACC. I imagine UConn and Cincy aren't far behind. The Big East must die. I hear what's left might just become a basketball priority conference for Catholic schools - since that'll be all that's left by that point.
What the f*ck is your deal against the Big East?
Edit: Sorry, Kiko, I quoted the wrong post (if you even saw it)
I will add that he has become a forbidden fruit over the years, as he is always associated with vacancies but no one ever gets him. People always want what no one can have...
Good point. There is always the assumption that, if enough people want it, it must be awesome.
I thought of a couple more things on the drive to work. Once again, not saying I agree with these, just trying to point out some of the reasoning here.
1) As Sang and Airline like to point out, UT has not really been relevant on the SEC for more than a few years now. Given the history of the program, the fanbase is not okay with this continuing. With a lesser name coach, there is the idea that it will still take them several years to rebuild the program to prominence whereas Gruden will be able to do it much faster. 2) Most UT fans won't admit it directly, but they have a ton of Bama envy. Bama wasn't doing well before Saban, and now, they are a football juggernaut. Saban came from the pros directly beforehand, and that is where Gruden's last job was, so Gruden will be able to build us up to juggernaut status. 3) People are still pissed about Kiffin because people still see him as a program savior in terms of coaching despite the violations he left us with and his stellar season at USC this year. Where was Kiffin's last job before UT? NFL. Once again, ex-NFL=success. 4) On the flip side to this, a lot of people right now blame Dooley for running the program further into the ground as coach. Dooley came from a smaller school, so many have a bias against any name from a small school because ex-smaller school=horrible failure regardless of differences in coaching style, experience and record at that school. 5) Lastly, UT fans are just not good at coaching searches. Kiffin was seen as an automatic slam dunk. Dooley was seen as a last ditch effort because we got left in a sh*tty spot by Kiffin. Aside from that, we don't have much experience with coaching changes. Majors coached from 1977 to 1992. Fulmer went from 1992 to 2008. Meaning, this is only the 4th coaching change at UT in my lifetime. There's not a frame of reference for many around here, so lofty expectations can be totally rationalized because we got an ex-NFL head coach the last time we did a legit coaching search after all.
2) Most UT fans won't admit it directly, but they have a ton of Bama envy. Bama wasn't doing well before Saban, and now, they are a football juggernaut. Saban came from the pros directly beforehand, and that is where Gruden's last job was, so Gruden will be able to build us up to juggernaut status.
I totally agree with this. Also UT fans see our recent trajectory mirroring Bama's in the late '90s/early 2000s. Lackluster coaches who made the team a doormat in the conference for almost a decade, followed by a big-name slam dunk hire to bring the team back to prominence (though even Mike Shula posted a ten win season). Unfortunately, John Gruden does not = Nick Saban as a surefire remedy to what ails us.
4) On the flip side to this, a lot of people right now blame Dooley for running the program further into the ground as coach. Dooley came from a smaller school, so many have a bias against any name from a small school because ex-smaller school=horrible failure regardless of differences in coaching style, experience and record at that school.
If Gruden doesn't work out and we can't get another big name like Gary Patterson, I would hope this bias wouldn't rule out Sonny Dykes; the guy has done a stellar job as Dooley's replacement at LA Tech. They gave A&M all they wanted earlier this season. But you're right, UT fans would scoff at hiring another LA Tech coach.
Louisville isn't going to win the acc(unless fsu and Clemson leave). they are an upgrade from maryland though.
When I first wrote that, I was being more funny than truth, but after looking at the conference I totally believe Louisville could take the Costal conference.
well yea, the coastal is horrible right now. but I guess they will be put in the atlantic to replace Maryland. so now the top 3 teams will all be in that division. also my new computer capitalizes some things for me and it's really weird.
Against Alabama? Yeah, probably. But it wouldn't be against Alabama.
As a Buckeye honk, BUT a Buckeye realist....
1) ND... would be a close game. OSU has a tendency to give up the big play, which would hurt them against any team in the BCS Championship game. The biggest issue with ND is their D front 7, not sure our OLine would match up.
2) Bama... we lose by 14
3) UGA... 3-7 point game. Our D is better than people think, and UGA doesn't have that scary big play maker that worries you every time they touch the ball.
The Ohio State Buckeyes, are probably two years away from being a serious threat. Braxton is a running back playing QB. He's regressed as a passer since moving up to college. We lack killer speed on the outside, and the O-Line isn't quite where Urb wants it to be.
The Defense is good. They are losing some talent on the line, but have some young guys to fill those slots. Shazier is a young Jarvis Jones... guy is going to be a stud.
Bonnaroo 2008-2013
0ct 11 Pearl Jam
Oct 12 Pearl Jam
March 16 Arcade Fire
April 29 Arcade Fire
Sept 4 Wilco
Sept 9 The Hold Steady
Oct 16 Pearl Jam
Oct 17 Gaslight Anthem
And Louisville got invited to the ACC. I imagine UConn and Cincy aren't far behind. The Big East must die. I hear what's left might just become a basketball priority conference for Catholic schools - since that'll be all that's left by that point.
What the f*ck is your deal against the Big East?
Edit: Sorry, Kiko, I quoted the wrong post (if you even saw it)
The Big East is like an old dog that's had its best days far behind it, and been in pain and suffering too long. Take it to the vet, get it temporarily better. Feed it some good food, but it won't do much in the end. Needs to be taken behind the woodshed, and then you mourn the loss and reflect the good times. Then you wake up to a new era and a new dog.
If Gruden doesn't work out and we can't get another big name like Gary Patterson, I would hope this bias wouldn't rule out Sonny Dykes; the guy has done a stellar job as Dooley's replacement at LA Tech. They gave A&M all they wanted earlier this season. But you're right, UT fans would scoff at hiring another LA Tech coach.
No way would he hire Sonny Dykes. People will be pissed enough they didn't hire Gruden. You add to that that the guy they hire is from La Tech again, and Hart will get his house burned down regardless of how well Dykes has done at La Tech.
As far as your lower level coaches, the names I kept hearing brought up are MacIntyre with San Jose St, Jones with Cincy and Northern Illinois's coach (whose name I can't remember right now) Anybody know anything about these guys?
If Gruden doesn't work out and we can't get another big name like Gary Patterson, I would hope this bias wouldn't rule out Sonny Dykes; the guy has done a stellar job as Dooley's replacement at LA Tech. They gave A&M all they wanted earlier this season. But you're right, UT fans would scoff at hiring another LA Tech coach.
No way would he hire Sonny Dykes. People will be pissed enough they didn't hire Gruden. You add to that that the guy they hire is from La Tech again, and Hart will get his house burned down regardless of how well Dykes has done at La Tech.
My point exactly. Hart passing on a potentially great hire because he isn't "sellable" is a real concern...
Post by kikosanchez on Nov 29, 2012 17:13:43 GMT -5
Imo, I don't think UT fans are against hiring smaller conference coaches, they just want him to have a great record/made a great turnaround at the program where he's at. For a long time, people have called for Boise's coach and Patterson. In basketball, we wanted VCU and Butler's coaches. We ended up with Cuonzo who made a great turnaround at Missouri St and people were pretty happy with that hire because of the turnaround and the fact that he's part of the "Gene Keady Coaching Tree". The difference is that Dooley hadn't done much at all at La Tech. He went 5-7, 8-5, and 4-8.
Post by kikosanchez on Nov 29, 2012 17:16:34 GMT -5
It does look like Mr Dykes has turned around Tech quite well. Still, with just 3 years of coaching experience at La Tech, he should still be pretty low on our dream list, yet fairly middle of the pack for our realistic list.
Post by Dave Maynar on Nov 29, 2012 19:22:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I have been working for two weeks on teaching co-workers the difference between the fantasy list (Gruden, Stoops, etc.) and the realistic list (anyone we actually have a chance of getting). I seriously had to explain to someone why the idea of Chip Kelly coming to UT was insane.
Yeah Dave that is what I figured about Gruden. UT needs to get off the "NFL" coach thing. Saban envy? He was only an NFL coach for a year or two. He is not an NFL coach. Lane Kiffin, not an NFL coach. As for Gruden, does he really have that great of a record as an NFL coach? He won a Super Bowl with Tony Dungy's team, and he beat "his" team to do it. Either way, UT needs to find a good coach, not a big name(which will always have the "will he be leaving for the NFL this year?", these distractions can kill a team and do nothing to better the program) and let him rebuild your team and this time, get a coach that looks like he could kick your ass. I mean if Dooley was my coach and he started yelling at me and telling me what to do, the whole time I would be thinking, "Man, I could kick his ass if I wanted to." He does not have that intimidating look. Him yelling at me would make me laugh more than scare me. I would recommend finding a "head-coach" in waiting and steal him. I would say Charlie Strong, but him being a Gator, I doubt he would coach UT. But who ever it is, he should be defensive minded and SEC knowledgeable.
Post by Dave Maynar on Nov 30, 2012 4:54:06 GMT -5
Bansheebeat, too bad for you that Charlie Strong is one of the names that comes up again and again for the UT and Arkansas jobs. As Scrog said, Strong is a Gator, but he is also an Arkansas native which might work in his favor in getting that job or at least might make him more interested in it.
Scrog, Gruden's career mark is 100-85. I agree that it would be nice to get someone who isn't going to have rumors about him quitting every year crop up until several seasons in rather than 20 minutes after he takes the job. Hart said about 50 times during the press conference that he wants someone with head coaching experience (and a record of winning), so I think we are more realistically looking at bringing a head coach up from a smaller school rather than an OC or DC from a larger school. Chavis is a big long shot because he has stated before that he is not really interested in being a head coach.
Did not know Chavis did not want to be a HC. He still should be considered. Just because someone does not have HC experience, he should not be taken off the list, but if that is what your AD wants, well good luck with that. What HC experience did Phil have before he took over many years ago. Maybe UT needs to work on replacing Hart. I see he came from Bama, you are right UT does have Bama envy.
Post by Dave Maynar on Nov 30, 2012 6:19:37 GMT -5
Hart worked at FSU too if you needed more reason to dislike him. ;D
I think what Hart said about head coaching is to placate the fan base to a certain extent since one of the knocks on Dooley was that he did not have much experience as a head coach before he got the job here. Once again, I think some people around here are making too many blanket generalizations about who is and isn't a good candidate for the position. I don't really care where he has come from or how much experience he has or whatever. I just want somebody who is going to win. The guy who is apparently currently owning us in recruiting in-state had zero head coaching experience before getting the job at Vanderbilt.
Also, here is the headline on the town's main newspaper's website this morning. "Report: Gruden has Tennessee contract in hand; staff pay a holdup" Lord help us.
Edit: Sorry, Kiko, I quoted the wrong post (if you even saw it)
The Big East is like an old dog that's had its best days far behind it, and been in pain and suffering too long. Take it to the vet, get it temporarily better. Feed it some good food, but it won't do much in the end. Needs to be taken behind the woodshed, and then you mourn the loss and reflect the good times. Then you wake up to a new era and a new dog.
Or in this case, four 16 team superconferences.
Too bad the entire world doesn't revolve around college football, or else this might carry some weight.
The Big East is like an old dog that's had its best days far behind it, and been in pain and suffering too long. Take it to the vet, get it temporarily better. Feed it some good food, but it won't do much in the end. Needs to be taken behind the woodshed, and then you mourn the loss and reflect the good times. Then you wake up to a new era and a new dog.
Or in this case, four 16 team superconferences.
Too bad the entire world doesn't revolve around college football, or else this might carry some weight.
the big east is dead in every sport. and yea the world does revolve around college football.