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I stay out of this thread for the most part, due to my lack of the appropriate appendages. Therefore I am late to the game here. But what a bunch of Moneyball, Billy Bean, New Age malarky. Not that anything I'll say can convince you that the the way that baseball has been measured for the last 100 years has validity...Yet Cabrera is in the ALCS and Mike Trout is sitting at home on his mom's couch crying and watching Moneyball. September does matter more, Cabrera led his team to the playoffs and Trout led his home.
People used to think the Earth was flat a long time ago, too. I guess if you would have lived in those times you would have lauded the validity of out-dated theories in opposition to the idea of a round Earth as well. We know a lot more about the game now than we did 100 years ago, and therefore have developed methods to better analyze players. You can keep living and thinking in 1912 times if you'd like, but I'll go with the Billy Beane "malarky" - as I believe you put it. The guy whose team just won the toughest division in baseball with the 2nd lowest payroll, who had a book and a film made about his innovative thinking, and who made every franchise in the MLB spend millions of dollars in research staffs to change the way they analyze and recruit players in order to keep up with him. Have fun counting RBI on your abacus, though.
As for the very tired "playoffs" argument, I just really don't see how one can clearly see that:
Player A has a massive advantage over Player B in 1/3 of the game, a massive advantage in the second of the three aspects of the game, and they are neutral in the third
yet somehow conclude Player B is more valuable to his team as a byproduct of factors out of his control that surround him. Clearly Player A added more to his team, yet you fault him for the shortcomings of his peers? How is that fair? Trout helped the Angels win more games than Cabrera did for the Tigers, but missed out on the playoffs by technicality. You're diminishing Trout's achievements because his teammates weren't good enough to help the Angels make the playoffs. Is having better teammates a skill? Is playing in a weaker division a skill? Why is Cabrera being rewarded for playing on a better team? Switch Miggy and Trout and the Tigers would have won more games and the Angels less than they did...how exactly is Cabrera more valuable? "Because he helped his team win games when it mattered", right? Does a win in September count more towards the standings than wins in May, June, July and August? (the 4 consecutive months that Trout helped his team win games - which still "counted" just as much as the September games - more than Cabrera)
1. Ichiro Suzuki - RF 2. Alex Rodriguez - SS 3. Barry Bonds - LF 4. Albert Pujols - 1B 5. Manny Ramirez - DH 6. Miguel Cabrera - 3B 7. Joe Mauer - C 8. Jim Edmonds - CF 9. Chase Utley - 2B
SP1- Pedro Martinez SP2- Randy Johnson SP3- Roy Halladay SP4- Justin Verlander SP5- Curt Schilling Closer - Mariano Rivera
So we're using a DH? And I'm assuming this is taking place in an alternate universe where our teams would play each other and therefore fielding matters.
1. Ichiro Suzuki - RF 2. Derek Jeter - SS 3. Carlos Beltran - CF 4. Albert Puhols - 1B 5. Barry Bonds - DH 6. Miguel Cabrera - 3B 7. Manny Ramirez - LF 8. Mike Piazza - C 9. Jeff Kent - 2B
Sp - Randy Johnson Sp - Roy Halladay Sp - Johan Santana Sp - Pedro Martinez Sp - CC Sabathia Closer* - Billy Wagner
*Look, I think everyone picks Mariano for closer, so I'm not picking him for this just to get some different names out there, but he's really my pick also.
Post by Alberto Balsalm on Oct 13, 2012 11:12:06 GMT -5
How can you possibly leave Alex Rodriguez off the all 2000's roster? (Especially when you can put him at 2 different positions)
499 HRs since 2000 (most of anyone in that timespan over Pujols by 25) and 200 steals while batting .298/.392/.564
I was strongly considering Beltran in CF bt Edmonds just outhit him by way too high of a margin to make up for Beltran's advantage in speed. Beltran statistically is the better defender too but I don't really trust defensive sabermetrics that strongly. I'd still take Edmonds in the field with how much range he covered and all the spectacular plays he made. There is also a case to be made for Beltran's clutchness as well, I believe he has something like a career 1.30 OPS in the postseason. Definitely a close one.
I considered Jeff Kent at 2B as well as he was definitely better offensively than Chase but I think Utley's defense and baserunning make up for it. Kent definitely has durability on Utley too, this one could certainly go either way. Also this might be going too in-depth but Jeff Kent was a huge dickhead and was a close to a T.O.-like locker room cancer as you can get in baseball.
Piazza is an interesting pick though, didn't really consider him (my next pick was Pudge). Although he was one of the best slugging catchers of all-time, he had no arm and actually Mauer is arguably the more productive offensive catcher, despite not having as much power. Plus Mauer has been elite defensively.
Are you a Mets fan Flanzo? I forgot. (Not trying to be an ass, Piazza is a decent pick I just forgot who you root for. Would help explain the Johan and Wagner picks too)
All around nice picks though. After Pedro, Randy and Halladay I had a hard time with the last 2 SP slots. You can make a case for a TON of guys. CC was the next one on my list and Johan was right behind him with a handful of other guys in consideration after them. Schilling had the best xFIP (3.18) and by far the best K:BB ratio (an insanely impressive 6.04, the next highest was Pedro with 4.63) so I couldn't leave him off. You could argue that Verlander hasn't proven it enough but I don't think anyone questions that he's the real deal and that when it's all said and done his career numbers will be pretty comparable with the rest of these guys in the discussion.
If you take Allen Craig off the Cardinals, they don't make the playoffs.
I don't know why I forgot to post it here, but my bold prediction that I made on both Facebook and Twitter as well as another forum that I post on before the postseason started was:
"My bold playoff prediction: If the Cardinals win the World Series again, Allen Craig will be the MVP. You heard it here first"
He was a three time all star, caught four no hitters, good defensive catcher (though he didn't throw that many basestealers out), captain of the team which won two World Series. Hit almost 200 homers in his career.
Yeah Pudge and Piazza are good too. I would pick Varitek though.
If you take Allen Craig off the Cardinals, they don't make the playoffs.
I don't know why I forgot to post it here, but my bold prediction that I made on both Facebook and Twitter as well as another forum that I post on before the postseason started was:
"My bold playoff prediction: If the Cardinals win the World Series again, Allen Craig will be the MVP. You heard it here first"
Come on Allen. Make me look smart.
I just don't see how the Cards don't win it again with their ridiculous postseason comebacks continuing. I'd say TLR sold his soul to the devil last year, but I don't know how you sell something to yourself.
At the beginning of the playoffs there were four teams where I felt it would've been cool to see win the World Series. It's already down to zero now. The Tigers and Giants are fine but they probably have like 5 Championship Series appearances between them the last few years. Boring boring boring.
He was a three time all star, caught four no hitters, good defensive catcher (though he didn't throw that many basestealers out), captain of the team which won two World Series. Hit almost 200 homers in his career.
Yeah Pudge and Piazza are good too. I would pick Varitek though.
I don't think most people realize how good Mauer has been in his career.
Mauer is better across the board offensively by a pretty wide margin and was a slightly better defensive catcher than Varitek because of his arm. Varitek had some clutch moments, but Mauer is nearly twice as productive.
And we all know All-Star selections are just popularity contests (Though Mauer already has 5 of these to Varitek's 3 as well)
Post by Alberto Balsalm on Oct 14, 2012 0:24:38 GMT -5
Wow. For as much as I hate the Yankees, Jeter has always been the one guy I actually like. He is like the ideal ballplayer and person. I really do feel bad for him. Don't feel bad for the Yankees at all though.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Oct 14, 2012 13:24:57 GMT -5
My original comment was kinda dumb, but I honestly believe if more than a handful of Yankee fans had actually stuck out the game Saturday a little crowd support could have put them over the top. It was pathetic how few people stayed (or could afford tickets in the first place).