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Post by stallion pt. 2 on Sept 13, 2007 16:23:53 GMT -5
In case you haven't already heard. Congress will be holding hearings on Sept. 25 to discuss hip hop lyrics and the degredation of women. The hearings will be called (and I am NOT making this up) “From Imus to Industry: The Business of Stereotypes and Degradation.” Master P is the only artist who has agreed to participate.
So what do y'all think. are hip-hop lyrics such a pressing threat that Congress needs to spend time with hearings? Any of you remember the PMRC "porn rock" hearings in the 80s? Are these congressional hearings on pop music necessary, or are the just a bunch of old fogies trying to stifle an art form they don't understand or like? Please discuss.
I'll start with a quote from Frank Zappa regarding the PMRC hearings that I happen to agree with: "I don't think there's a problem. First of all, I don't think music turns people into social liabilities. Because you hear a lyric - there's no medical proof that a person hearing a lyric is going to act out the lyric. There's also no medical proof that if you hear any collection of vowels and consonants, that the hearing of that collection is going to send you to Hell."
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by bamabelle on Sept 13, 2007 18:44:29 GMT -5
You. Are. Kidding. Me. This S H I T again??? *SIGH* And you'd think they would have learned JUST a little from the PMRC fiasco....oh, I'm sorry I just associated Congress and Learn in the same sentence....how silly of me
Anything to distract the oh-so-easily distractable American Public Sheeps from anything of real substance.....pick the most suspect, completely trival and somewhat controversial (preferably relating to a minority) subject matter of your choice and hold hearings on it to keep anyone from focusing on any issues of REAL import....
"Godzilla, pure 'mother fuckin' filler....keep your eyes off the real killer.....cinema, simulated life, ill drama 4th Reich culture - Americana Chained to the dream they got you searchin' for The thin line between entertainment & war"
Post by steveternal on Sept 13, 2007 21:55:24 GMT -5
No, it's not that really. It's that some people want answers/results after the Imus scandal, and this is an empty, fabricated attempt at pretending to be results.
Post by bamabelle on Sept 13, 2007 22:01:12 GMT -5
Oh puleeze! Like he is the first, last, and only media personality to shoot his mouth off with an offensive tirade......give me a break
If we held Congressional hearings for every offensive remark someone made in the media we'd REALLY have a bottleneck....we'd have no need for fillabuster anymore!
Unfortunatly I know that rap lyrics do affect some people negativly and I think people that totally buy into hip hop culture have less respect for women but at the same time I absolutly support an artist right to say whatever they want. If you dont want your kids to hear certain kinds of messages then be a parent and try to have some influence on what they listen to. And if your an adult and fell the need to act out the gangsta rap lifestyle.... well thats what karma is for, and prison.
It's valid to say that lyrics have an effect on how a person looks at the world Hippies are generally more upbeat than their rapper counter parts. no? Country fans are more optimistic and generally happier than the goth kids. yes?
If you're surrounded by and immersed in a "culture" you BECOME that culture.
Artists reflect their culture and influence it at the same time and should never be censored or even pressured to compromise what they have to say. That's the whole point of art, to say something. If an artist is no longer saying what they want to say, how they want to say it, then what's the point? Just package it up in a blister pack and spoon feed it to us.
Some art isn't meant to be pretty. Paintings that hang above your couch are pretty, a DeKooning (google it if you don't know) that's purpose is to show the chaos inside of a person isn't necessarily living room material. It's ugly for a reason, that's art.
Music is the same way. I love my happy hippie jams but sometimes I don't feel like a happy hippie, that's when I go to the darker industrial side of myself. Phish ain't gonna cut it when I'm seriously pissed off, give me NIN. When sometimes I'm sad I don't want fabulously goofy Keller, give me Tori Amos. Different music for a different purpose.
As far as hip-hop crap goes... it's a culture. Do we white kids get it? not really. (Don't forget that) but then again, we all know that people don't "get" our crazy hippie noise down in Tennessee. It's how people are built that makes them express themselves in "that" way. Believe it or not Fiddy cent has a thought and he wishes to express it and he does... in his own "voice". He is an artist. More power to him. I personally can't relate to getting shot so he doesn't say anything that's relevant to me but I doubt my husbands band speaks to Fiddy's world either. It all boils down to the reality that we don't all have the same expressive language. Just because I don't understand Fiddy doesn't mean it's not deeply meaningful to someone else. All art is valid, if it speaks to someone.
It's not government's job to tell artists how to express themselvs. if government has ANY role in art it is to foster its growth and to promote its worth.
It's the parents who need to teach their children about these things in the world, if the kids get ahead of what their parents are teaching them the parents have to talk it out and explain it. It's called parenting.
And it even goes beyond art.....it's, once again, all about free speech of ANY kind.....freedom of expression is just another form of communication. Some people use art, music, the written word, the spoken word....it's all about being able to communicate what you think to other people. The right to be heard. The right to say what you feel and express that to the world. It doesn't matter whether other people agree or disagree, once you lose the right to communicate what you want, need, or feel - we as a society lose the ability to freely communicate - and lose a basic tenet - if not THE basic tenet - of a Free society. Once you take away a person's right to speak/communicate freely and begin to censor, you begin to influence every aspect of their life.
If you don't like certain kinds of music, don't listen to it or buy it. If you don't want your kids to listen to it, don't let them. Or, if you can't control them 100% of the time, then tell them you don't approve of it and then if they choose to listen to it anyway, well, that should tell you something about your relationship with your kids...I think there's something bigger going on than them listening to offensive music that needs to be addressed....like what else are they doing that you are telling them NOT to do? Morals and values can be taught by example, but they CANNOT be legislated, and at some point in time, we all have to figure out individually what we believe to be right and wrong.
Our country has many more pressing issues that Congress should be looking at, and I agree that it's just a diversion for the sheeple.
Their basis is 'The Business of Stereotypes and Degradation'. I'm sorry, are we regulating that now? I find that incredibly ironic. Women don't even have a hundred years of voting rights under our belts. That same government is now going to protect us from the evils of hip-hop? How about the evils of high heels or make up or something that actually bothers me.
I also agree about it being art, and that means hands-off. Freedom of speech, so kiss my ass congress. To even act like they can TOUCH free speech is incredibly insulting to me. Wasting time and money doing it is even more offensive.
Of course they are a threat to America as it currently exists ! And what's wrong with that, I'd like to know. I say hats off to some of the best most intelligent hip hop I've heard in years. If ya listen close, there is plenty of truth. And yes, that represents a threat to the paradigm that will be cloaked as overuse of the n word and misogny towards women.
The real story is in WHY they'd wanna restrict any speech. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH YELLING "FIRE!" IN A CROWDED THEATER IF, THERE IS IN FACT, A FIRE IN A CROWDED THEATER !!!
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Sept 25, 2007 17:33:06 GMT -5
Here's an update from Rolling Stone
The Dirty South rolled up on Capitol Hill today, as rappers David Banner (left) and Master P testified before the House Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection in a hearing organized by Rep. Bobb Rush (D-Ill). Master P, who has renounced profanity in his lyrics, apologized to women for his old records: “I was honestly wrong,” he said. Banner, on the other hand — who, we must say, looks excellent in a suit — gave a spirited defense of strong language in hip-hop. “I’m like Stephen King: horror music is what I do,” he said. “If by some stroke of the pen, hip-hop was silenced, the issues would still be present in our communities. Drugs, violence and the criminal element were around long before hip-hop existed.” [Photo: Getty] -- Rolling Stone
I'm glad at least one other artist had the balls to come down for this and defend his art. While I do admire Master P for deciding to ditch profanity (hip-hop's not an easy genre to try something like that), I did feel he was bowing before pressure from this whole debacle to do do.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
"In an effort to further gray the area separating free speech and censorship, Brooklyn assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries is demanding that the New York Comptroller withdraw an $84 million state pension fund invested in Universal Music Group and its parent company Vivendi unless Nas changes the title his new album N!gger."
So we need to pull pension funding for an entire media conglomerate because of another hip-hop record? The war on words continues while the ideas behind those words remain alive and well.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by iridethecannibus on Oct 27, 2007 11:01:00 GMT -5
the war on hip hop is second in futility and stupidity only to the war on drugs. I have somewhat of an interesting persective on this, given my musical tastes... as some of you may or may not know, i am a big hip-hop fan. I am also a big "alternative fan," a HUGE "old school rockin' out" fan, and a moderate country fan. Growing up with many different families, schools, and states, has given me a diverse, challenging, and blessed upbringing. Both of my parents were too young to be hippies, coming of age in late 70s, and trying most trippy druqs they could find. Because of their experiences and influences, i was raised hearing mostly Tom Petty, The Doors, Pink Floyd, Chicago, CCR, Hank williams jr., acdc, rolling stones, and a huge variety of that devil rock'nroll. As an adult, my dad has had a second coming of age musically speaking, and has discoved the joy/FUN in hip-hop. Some things in hip hop are harsh, many things are not meant to be taken seriously. Eminem for example... i know a lot of people who have serious beef with this artist, but if you actually take the time to listen to his abulms a few times, you'll probably be surprised by a few things. One, a lot of what he says is funny, when you learn to take it as a joke. People watch SNL and laugh about all sorts of things that would be deemed unacceptable if they were laughing at something serious. Secondly, Eminem says MULTIPLE times that "he's just playin". Ok, that was a bit of a tangent, let me go back. first, i'm going to post some HIGHLY OFFENSIVE (ish) lyrics, so we can all look at how bad they really are and evaluate the motives behind them to determine how dangerous they really are. Now, keep in mind the freedom of Jackass, The Tom Green SHow, and other offensive highly rated shows. I have more to say on this issue but i can't get all my thoughts together clearly while i'm at work trying to do ten other things. Please bare with me though, and don't be upset (at me) for the nature of the following lyrics.
Fuck what a story I never knew I.. Motherfucker comes out I never knew I.. and sells a couple of million records I never knew I.. And these motherfuckers hit the ceiling I never knew I..
[Eminem] I don't do black music, I don't do white music I make fight music, for high school kids I put lives at risk when I drive like this {*tires screech*} I put wives at risk with a knife like this (AHHH!!) Shit, you probably think I'm in your tape deck now I'm in the back seat of your truck, with duct tape stretched out Ducked the fuck way down, waitin to straight jump out put it over your mouth, and grab you by the face, what now? Oh - you want me to watch my mouth, how? Take my fuckin eyeballs out, and turn em around? Look - I'll burn your fuckin house down, circle around and hit the hydrant, so you can't put your burning furniture out (Oh my God! Oh my God!) I'm sorry, there must be a mix-up You want me to fix up lyrics while the President gets his dick sucked? {*ewwww*} Fuck that, take drugs, rape sluts Make fun of gay clubs, men who wear make-up Get aware, wake up, get a sense of humor Quit tryin to censor music, this is for your kid's amusement (The kids!) But don't blame me when lil' Eric jumps off of the terrace You shoulda been watchin him - apparently you ain't parents
Chorus: Eminem
Cause I never knew I, knew I would get this big I never knew I, knew I'd affect this kid I never knew I'd, get him to slit his wrist I never knew I'd, get him to hit this bitch I never knew I, knew I would get this big I never knew I, knew I'd affect this kid I never knew I'd, get him to slit his wrist I never knew I'd, get him to hit this bitch
[Eminem] So who's bringin the guns in this country? (Hmm?) I couldn't sneak a plastic pellet gun through customs over in London And last week, I seen a Schwarzaneggar movie where he's shootin all sorts of these motherfuckers with a uzi I sees three little kids, up in the front row, screamin "Go," with their 17-year-old Uncle I'm like, "Guidance - ain't they got the same moms and dads who got mad when I asked if they liked violence?" And told me that my tape taught 'em to swear What about the make-up you allow your 12-year-old daughter to wear? (Hmm?) So tell me that your son doesn't know any cuss words when his bus driver's screamin at him, fuckin him up worse ("Go sit the fuck down, you little fuckin prick!") And fuck was the first word I ever learned up in the third grade, flippin the gym teacher the bird (Look!) So read up, about how I used to get beat up peed on, be on free lunch, and change school every 3 months My life's like kinda what my wife's like (what?) Fucked up after I beat her fuckin ass every night, Ike So how much easier would life be if 19 million motherfuckers grew to be just like me?
Chorus
[Eminem] I never knew I.. knew I'd.. have a new house or a new car A couple years ago I was more poorer than you are I don't got that bad of a mouth, do I? Fuck shit ass bitch cunt, shooby-de-doo-wop (what?) Skibbedy-be-bop, a-Christopher Reeves Sonny Bono, skis horses and hittin some trees (HEY!) How many retards'll listen to me and run up in the school shootin when they're pissed at a teach-er, her, him, is it you is it them? "Wasn't me, Slim Shady said to do it again!" Damn! How much damage can you do with a pen? Man I'm just as fucked up as you woulda been if you woulda been, in my shoes, who woulda thought Slim Shady would be somethin that you woulda bought that woulda made you get a gun and shoot at a cop I just said it - I ain't know if you'd do it or not
*SIGH* And you'd think they would have learned JUST a little from the PMRC fiasco....oh, I'm sorry I just associated Congress and Learn in the same sentence....how silly of me 
