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Post by strumntheguitar on Aug 21, 2007 0:42:07 GMT -5
I'm rather curious as to what would have happened if he hadn't pleaded guilty. Personally, I don't think he should get any lesser of a punishment anymore because he can't help testify against any of the other defendants and he has already contradicted himself between his different pleas. I guess now all we can do is just wait and see what happens...
i dunno. i dont like vick. and i love dogs. but it seems that hes being singled out for being rich and famous. and im sure some would say black. dog fighting goes on in every city in america and is largely overlooked. i lived in lorain, a crappy ghetto suburb of cleveland for 3 weeks and it was a common thing to do. i never participated or watched in any way. i think its disgusting. but it was obvious to anyone in the area that it was happening regularly. the police did it too. granted the police in lorain are all puerto rican gang bangers. its truly a different world in true ghettos. anyhow i just think its crappy that this guy has his whole life destroyed for something that would be ignored or result in probation for the average gang banger doing it. or possibly its crappy that all the normal people doing it arent put in jail too. its gotta be one or the other imo. and its likely that even after he serves his time he may not ever work in the nfl again. once you pay your debt to society by servin your time arent you entitled to work again? and its because a bunch of people with too much time will wage protests if he is taken back by an nfl team. arent there greater things to be worried about?? war, disease, government corrupton, etc.. or even the rampant dog fighting that is going on in every city. instead we crucify one guy and think weve done something positive to make the world a better place. its crazy. oj cut the heads of of 2 people and hes playing golf. michael vick is gonna lose his job, his endorsements, and probably a year or more of his freedom. im not saying that he dosent deserve to do his time and that 1 year isnt apporpriate punishment. just that its different rules for different people. it sad that so many people focus so much attention on something like this when it happens every day, everywhere but because hes famous they crucify him. and what about innocent until proven guilty. this guy has been fucked since the first report hit. could he even get a fair trial anymore? i mean come on there have been friggin demonstrations on the streets about this. and yet we cant get a big enough protest to this illegal war that is killing human beings to make any type of a difference. the priorities of americans never ceases to amaze me. and again im not sticking up for vick. lord knows he has enough money. and i dont like him or the falcons so have at it i guess.
one thing i know for sure. ITS NOT WORLD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! quit talking about it cnn and fox. find something important to cover!!! damn i hate our media and what passes for world news. i think other countries laugh at us for what is considered world news over here. britneys hair and lindsays drugs and vicks dogs, and 6 trapped miners. 14 miners die everyday in china. seriously. 14 a day. this stuff is not world news damnit!!!!!
anyhow rant off. and again. im not supporting vick. and i despise dog fighting. just saying our legal system should have consistent penalties for all who commit a crime. and that the american people should find some more important things to be upset about and protest in the streets.
and for the record i think id rather be a dog thats well taken care of (for the most part, dogs have to be healthy to be fighters) that was used for fighting then a dog born into a disgusting puppy mill and shipped from tiny cage to tiny cage at pet stores. why dont we protest that and accost people who buy puppy mill dogs and support this horrible industry while thousands of homeless animals are put down at shelters? not to mention puppy mill dogs are nuts. they have horrible bloodlines and breeding practices. anyone who buys a dog at a pet store is doing way more damage then vick. get a dog from the shelter. or go to a local breeder and get a quality, non abused dog at half the price of some petstore puppy mill dog and your not supporting that disgusting industry.
ok now rant off. that first one was a false off
and btw im a huge dog lover. i have had dogs my whole life. i cureently have a 110 pound black lab that would lose a fight to the chipmunk that lives in my wood pile. i think anyone who fights dogs has some serious issues with violence and should be stopped. i just dont think one dude should be singled out.
if vick was fighting chickens would there be an uproar? its kinda like enivronmentalists getting all crazy about dolphin safe tuna and mean while the tuna is looking around like wtf? is a tuna not an animal, a life worth saving. its just not as cute so fuck 'em.
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 2:34:48 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
They took down a puppy mill close to here a couple years ago.
Evil old bitch! Hundreds of dogs. Little dogs. Sweet little helpless lap dogs. Disgusting. When it comes to animals I'm one of those "sensitive viewers" it's hard to even think about it. One trip to the pound when I was a kid scarred me for life, (this was not a no-kill shelter) I cried because I couldn't save them all.
So yeah, nail Vick's ass to the wall. After he's been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt... of course.
i live in the boonies and there are all sorts of atrocities towards animals up here. the news is filled with stories of starved horses. or the lady with 300 cats and dogs and 9 inches of poo everywhere. and of course those nasty puppy mills. there are just so many things going on that all this attention on vick seems unwarranted. but i realize how our silly society works.
i also had a similar experience at a pound. just felt so bad that i couldnt take all of them. for like 5 years as a child i swore i would never drive because i always cried about dead animals on the side of the road. however i changed my tune around 15.
if they are gonna nail vicks ass to the wall then i hope its a catalyst to crack down on all who do it and nail their asses too. lets match penalties to crimes not punishment matched to a persons position in society or their likability. i think its wrong when oj and other famous or powerful people get away with shit but its equally upsetting when it goes the other way and someone is crucified in the media for doing something that thousands of people do everyday and suffer no consequences at all or a much lighter penalty then what vick is facing.
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 2:55:07 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Post by oatmealschnappz on Aug 21, 2007 2:53:32 GMT -5
I see what you're saying, but I disagree. YES, without a doubt, anyone who engages in that sort cruel and barbaric activity desrves to be punished. ANYONE! Rich or poor. famous or not. It's sick and evil, pure and simple. But anyone who accepts a multi-million dollar job (complete with product endorsements and everything that comes with it), does willingly sacrifice their "average joe" status when it comes to the law....And that goes both ways. Many cops would be all too willing to let Vick slide on tickets or domestic violence or D.U.I. or any number of offenses. That's part of being famous. On the other hand, if someone like Vick accepts the very public role that being a pro quarterback offers, he leaves himself more than open to intense (even exaggerated) scrutiny. Maybe it's not fair but, it's the way it is....And he should've known it. You're right. Dog fighting does happen WAY TOO OFTEN and every single one of these saddistic assmonkeys should be buried nose-deep in concrete and left to rot! But when someone like Vick accepts a ridiculous paycheck and an unnecessarily high placement in society, he also accepts the scrutiny and ridicule that comes with it...especially when he commits an atrocity like this. This sh!t is cruel and inhuman and ANYONE who participates desrves to have the book thrown at them. Super-big stars will always be super-big targets. That's just the way it goes. That's the downside to the fame and fortune. He should've known that. He should've cared enough for his career, if not for the hundreds of innocent animals he's tortured and destroyed, to avoid this unnecessary yet totally predictable outcome. He deserves it, if you ask me. If not for being a vile excuse for a human, then just for being arrogant and stupid. F*CK HIM! He deserves ALOT MORE than what he'll actually get!
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 2:56:06 GMT -5 by oatmealschnappz - Back to Top
well i can see him sigining away certain things as far as media and public scrutiny is concerned. its just a fact of society. a sad one but one none the less. but laws and penalties for breaking laws should not have anythign to do with that at all. laws should be applied to all equally for equal offenses.
and btw i havent really payed much attention to this because it seems a waste of time and energy. but is he even facing time for cruelty to dogs? seems like the stiffer punishment to go after would be in regards to operatibg an illegal gambling ring that is a part of all dog fighting rings.
and hundereds????? again i havent followed it. but hundereds??? it seems like another case of the fact that hes a star means that facts arent important and we can blow it all up with exaggerations in the media and public opinion making it nearly impossible to get anythign resembling a fair trial. i challenge you to find 12 americans that arent dog lovers and havent been swayed by the coverage of this.. but maybe it is hundereds and im just not informed. but that seems unlikley.
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 3:03:34 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Post by oatmealschnappz on Aug 21, 2007 3:04:00 GMT -5
I think that the addition of gambling cahrges are what persuaded him to plead out. It's F*CKED-UP, but that seems to carry heftier charges.
You're totally right. The laws SHOULD apply equally to everyone but, they don't. Being poor makes you easier to arrest. Being famous makes you easier to prosecute. It's not right but, it's life. A person in Vick's place should've had enough sense and survival instinct to know better. The fact that he didn't (or just thought he was untouchable) just makes me less sympathetic.
i agree with you that vicks a moron. i mean the dudes got all the money in the world and he spends his time abusing dogs. what a fuck nut. but most of these athletes arent know for their intelligence or the quality of person they are. if they were i think most would be disliked with a passion.
Post by oatmealschnappz on Aug 21, 2007 3:09:30 GMT -5
dudewhersmyinforoo said:
and hundereds????? again i havent followed it. but hundereds??? it seems like another case of the fact that hes a star means that facts arent important and we can blow it all up with exaggerations in the media and public opinion making it nearly impossible to get anythign resembling a fair trial. i challenge you to find 12 americans that arent dog lovers and havent been swayed by the coverage of this.. but maybe it is hundereds and im just not informed. but that seems unlikley.
Without a doubt, all dog lovers are being swayed...but if it's true, shouldn't they/we be? When police served the intial warrant on the house (looking for his cousin, not him) they found 76 dogs in cages (dozens showing profound injuries), 3 dog fighting pins (painted balck and hidden in the surrounding woods) and multiple mass graves. Vick was/is either a monster or he allowed monstrous things to take place at his home. Either way, he needs to be held accountable!
and hundereds????? again i havent followed it. but hundereds??? it seems like another case of the fact that hes a star means that facts arent important and we can blow it all up with exaggerations in the media and public opinion making it nearly impossible to get anythign resembling a fair trial. i challenge you to find 12 americans that arent dog lovers and havent been swayed by the coverage of this.. but maybe it is hundereds and im just not informed. but that seems unlikley.
Without a doubt, all dog lovers are being swayed...but if it's true, shouldn't they/we be? When police served the intial warrant on the house (looking for his cousin, not him) they found 76 dogs in cages (dozens showing profound injuries), 3 dog fighting pins (painted balck and hidden in the surrounding woods) and multiple mass graves. Vick was/is either a monster or he allowed monstrous things to take place at his home. Either way, he needs to be held accountable!
wow. ok i was underinformed for sure. i always flip[ the channel when it comes on. i had no idea that it was that large of a thing. so i guess i should take back some of what i said. thats not anywhere near the same thing as people in the ghetto with a couple of pits. so i guess he should be fucked for life. in fact id have to completely argue the other way that abusing that many animals and surely operating an illegal gambling ring should result in a much harsher sentence. i should have known the rich and famous get special treatment not mis-treatment. im sure that if they busted that type of opperation in the ghetto there would be no plea bargaining out of the gambling ring charges. i still hope that this helps put a stop to the small time dogfighting that is overlooked in every major city.
my bad. i should have checked the facts before running my mouth.
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 3:22:16 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
There was just a bust in Cleveland a couple days ago. Don't know the details. I also, turn when this comes on. They'll show you two dogs moaning and shredding and screaming, but they won't give an accurate death count from Iraq-OR Katrina. But attention to this type of societal malady is a good thing. It just belongs on the local news, not the national spotlight.
^^^I can tell you that if that happens - I will not be supporting NFL at all - no way - no how - no nothing (not that I really watch or support all that much anyway)
i seee where stephan marbury form the new york knicks has come out in support of vick and has called dogfighting a sport. what a moron. in sports fighters dont fight to the death. and if you lose or arent built for fighting your not electrocuted, suffocated, or shot. i am really quite horrified at some of the stories about vick. elecrocution of dogs? thats sick. that even goes beyond putting an injured dog down. thats some type of psychopath thing going on.
i finally decided to watch a news report on this and some good points were made. you dont get media coverage, street demonstrations, and public outcry over child sex predators as this does. plenty of professional atheletes have had incidents of beating their wives. where is the outcry over that? why arent these people driven out of the nfl? if james brown had fought dogs would he be worshipped as a legend? but since he only beat women its ok. our society is so damn silly its digusting. but vick is a disgusting human being and i think it sucks that hes not facing 10+ years for his offenses as you or i would if we tortured and killed dogs and participated in an illegal gambling ring. and i think he should be forced to get some pshyciatric(sp?) help too cause hes obvioulsy got some issues with violence. thast seriously some psychpopathic nuts.
i also think its humorous that nearly everyone who calls in or paticipates in these protests are usually middle aged/older women who have probably never spent a penny on anything nfl. and dont watch nfl games. ouch! thats gonna hurt the nfl.
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 22:52:57 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
Post by oatmealschnappz on Aug 21, 2007 23:12:16 GMT -5
dudewhersmyinforoo said:
in sports fighters dont fight to the death. and if you lose or arent built for fighting your not electrocuted, suffocated, or shot..
Don't forget that in actual sports, the participants are both willing and aware of what's going on. I saw a news clip (not of Vick) where these 2 guys are in a dogfighting pen holding 2 pitbulls. They both let go of the animals.....and one of the dogs walks over to the other one, licks it and lays down next to his "opponent". So what happens next? These sick FUKS actually re-harness the dogs and start beating them in order to get them to fight each other! Thank god the clip ended there.
You are right, Keith. Alot of other heinous sh!t that celebrities(and others) pull is (relatively) over looked and that is f*cked up! While I love his music, Brown was a pretty bad guy from EVERYTHING I've ever heard. It's not fair and it's totally arbitrary that one person is "forgiven" and another is made an example out of. If you're a sick f*cking criminal, that should supercede how well you throw a ball or how much you give to charity or how great the music you've written is or whatever! It's truly sad that it just doesn't work that way. As far as Brown vs Vick goes, I have to defend James (somewhat). He may have been a wife-beating assface but, at least he wasn't torturing and killing hundreds of women. I know that that is a thin line to draw but, there is definitely still a line there. Also, due to changing behavioral patterns or increased media scrutiny or a massive ego or whatever, James at least was responsible for years and years of cultural contributions (civil rights, music, etc...) before he started acting like a douchenozzle. (or at least before we found out about it.) Vick has just thrown a ball around for a few years while throwing-up "red flags" on an almost daily basis. This guy is a saddistic thug and NOTHING more! I long for the day that he's just the answer to a trivia question. May he die chewed-up, laying in a puddle of blood in a sh!t filled cage!
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2007 23:15:10 GMT -5 by oatmealschnappz - Back to Top
well i hate to say it because im always saying it. but this is a law enforcement issue. dog fighting could be stopped but its not a priority. cops dont enforce these laws because it costs money to investigate and jail dog fighters. they make money by siezing property in this crazy war on drugs. if they would just leave harmless people alone and spend their time enforcing our laws against dangerous and violent people then maybe violent psychopaths involved in dog fighting would be stopped. maybe child predators would be stopped. maybe illegal immigrants wouldnt be draining our communities funds. etc... but they just dont care about anything that dosent make money for them to pay their salaries. so that means countless man hours wasted on traffic stops and illegal searches. i love how we have these rights as americans. but only until a dog that can be trained to do anything and has the esitmated intelligence of a 4 year old says that your rights no longer apply. its so fucking crazy. why dont we all fight against cops enslaving dogs to do their dirty work and doing the most dangerous parts of their jobs for them? once again is that dog a willing and knowing participant when he goes in after a violent criminal with a gun or a knife or is he just playing a game that hes played for food or his toy a thousand times before. is subjecting a dog to that kind of danger any better then the dangers of fighting? those dogs dont know that they are violating the constitutional rights of americans when they do what they are trained to do. oh well im not goona go off on my police rant again. but seriously why dont we pressure our police to stop things like this in every major city in the country? is it only important if a celebrity does it? not that it would matter anyhow. why is it ok for them to endanger dogs so they dont have to do their jobs? police everywhere a crooked bastards in my estimation, but in the ghetto its insane what passes for police officers. they are hardcore gangbangers doing all sorts of criminal shit. i dont see ghetto cops giving two sh!ts about dogfighting. in fact if you call the police about dog fighting in , for lack of a better word, ghetto area they wont even take a report. they will tell you to call animal control and they may or may not check it out in the next few months.
well i hate to say it because im always saying it. but this is a law enforcement issue. dog fighting could be stopped but its not a priority. cops dont enforce these laws because it costs money to investigate and jail dog fighters. they make money by siezing property in this crazy war on drugs. if they would just leave harmless people alone and spend their time enforcing our laws against dangerous and violent people then maybe violent psychopaths involved in dog fighting would be stopped. maybe child predators would be stopped. maybe illegal immigrants wouldnt be draining our communities funds. etc... but they just dont care about anything that dosent make money for them to pay their salaries. so that means countless man hours wasted on traffic stops and illegal searches. i love how we have these rights as americans. but only until a dog that can be trained to do anything and has the esitmated intelligence of a 4 year old says that your rights no longer apply. its so f**king crazy. why dont we all fight against cops enslaving dogs to do their dirty work and doing the most dangerous parts of their jobs for them? once again is that dog a willing and knowing participant when he goes in after a violent criminal with a gun or a knife or is he just playing a game that hes played for food or his toy a thousand times before. is subjecting a dog to that kind of danger any better then the dangers of fighting? those dogs dont know that they are violating the constitutional rights of americans when they do what they are trained to do. oh well im not goona go off on my police rant again. but seriously why dont we pressure our police to stop things like this in every major city in the country? is it only important if a celebrity does it? not that it would matter anyhow. why is it ok for them to endanger dogs so they dont have to do their jobs? police everywhere a crooked bastards in my estimation, but in the ghetto its insane what passes for police officers. they are hardcore gangbangers doing all sorts of criminal nuts. i dont see ghetto cops giving two sh!ts about dogfighting. in fact if you call the police about dog fighting in , for lack of a better word, ghetto area they wont even take a report. they will tell you to call animal control and they may or may not check it out in the next few months.
ya know - I don't even really have the time to get into a whole defense of your entire post on this - suffice it to say that I know in Mississippi - law enforcement is doing what they can to stop the dog fighting - these people are criminals - they think like a criminal and act like criminals - there are also lots of legal mubo jumbo that the officers have to go through just to obtain a fucking search warrent to go on someone's property to investigate if there are fighting dogs there.
as for the animal control officers - back up a littlle dude - don't generalize and try to act like they are all the same - they are NOT - believe me I KNOW this - Boz goes down in some of the most ghetto areas you have ever seen when he gets a call out - he does what he does because of his love for animals - not because he gets paid well to do it - but he does not differentiate between calls based on what area of town they come from.
Until you have actually been in their shoes or can show me some proof (statistics - reports, etc.) that law enforcement is too busy busting people for minor pot and/or drug charges to fight the dog fighting business - then you need to think before you post a tirade against them - they work for very little pay - get shot at on a regular basis - are treated like shit - but if your house gets broken into - your car is stolen - you are mugged - or some member of your family is in trouble - the police are the first people that are called - yet you do nothing but dog them out and bitch and complain about them every chance you get.
I like reading most of your posts - alot of them are very enlightening but I am really tired of having you dog out the police on a constant and continual basis.
well i never said anything bad about animal control people. i have tons of respect for them. its a tough job. and they dont make enough to be out there dealing with dangerous animals and even more dangerous people. most do it because they love animals and want to help. i think its sad that if somone calls the police about a crime being commited. especially one that involves the mistreatment of animals, it isnt responded to. like i said they refer you to animal control and around here they are underpayed, understaffed and overworked. so most of the reports go uninvestigated. and even if they do respond the next day or the next week it usually goes nowhere. now if the police responded to it when the report was made and the fights were happening they could get these people. if these people are criminals that think and act like criminals then why is boz going out there? the police need to do their jobs and enforce our laws. as for warrants and whatnot they dont need that sh!t for this war on drugs. i wonder whay that is. maybe its a financial decision. cant dogs smell dogfighting??
well im not gonna track down the stats. but if you feel like it take alook at how many people are arrested for victimless drug crimes in america and then look at how many arrests are made for dog fighting. take a look at how much of the budget goes to this war on drugs and then look at how much goes towards crimes that have victims and really need attention. ive had my car broken into. i never got anythign back. they never helped. my moms garage was broken into and no help from law enforcement there. my house burned down and the only thing that the cops did for me was give me a bunch of nuts for a bag of pot and some shrooms in a dresser drawer. the fact of the matter is that most of the polices budget is geared towards making money off of traffic stops, searches, and seizure of property in the war on drugs. its just the way it is. how about a war on crime? how many funding programs are there for dog fighting? and yet theyve got homeland security task forces pulling over everyone on the highway and searching them with dogs for having a license plate light out. it happened to me. a friggin homeland security task force spending the whole day just pulling over people for minor infractions and searching them with dogs. they arent serving and protecting anything but themselves and their paychecks.
and again how about cops putting dogs in extreme danger to do parts of their jobs they dont want to. maybe we should start using dogs in mines to make sure they are safe. maybe they can haul mine carts. maybe we could send them in to see if downed powerlines are still live. the cops dont do the job they werre intended to do. they just shake people down for money until something horrible happens, that probably could have been prevented with a little policing, and then they respond to it in a half assed way that rarely accomplishes anything other then maybe finding a body. its all around. its obvious to see. i dont understand how it can be missed. maybe if the cops were protecting and serving the public they would be more respected. but when ya spend 95 percent of your time and funding on harrasing citizens your not gonna get much respect.
Last Edit: Aug 22, 2007 21:21:41 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
that raises a good question. will vick go to real prison? will he be seperated for general population. if the fact that hes a star gets him in solitary hes gonna have a REAL long stay in prison without company. i also read that the state prosecutor is planning on going ahed and pressing charges in addition to the federal charges. and they carry a heavier penalty. if he gets the maximum he could get up to 15 years. i doubt it will happen. he is rich and famous afterall.
Last Edit: Aug 22, 2007 20:56:10 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top