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Post by steveternal on Jul 2, 2007 22:14:47 GMT -5
For the record, a "pardon" is different from what Libby got. A pardon completely exonerates the guilty, while (as stated in the article), Bush just knocked off the prison term; Libby still has a stiff fine and 2 years probation.
With that said, I'm a conservative and I'm outraged by this. The thing that most gets my goat about Bush and his administration is how they don't budge an inch on their convictions and issues. I know they think it shows courage and fortitude, but really it makes them come off as totally uncaring and disrespectful of anyone who disagrees with them.
Treason is apparently a Republican value (or at least a Bush family value.) Bush Sr. pardons 6 treasonous felons from Iran-Contra. And now Bush Jr. exonerates another treasonous ally.
And this on the same day that Bush's court just made it harder to get truly unreasonable federal prison sentences reviewed.
What a great system. Treat those who fight for our country like sh*t and reward traitors. And just in time for the 4th of July!
Hey Strum. I'm mostly lurking in the shadows. Kind of in the post Roo doldrums. I drop by everyday but only post when the mood hits. Of course being a political junkie I couldn't pass this up.
You are correct, Happy. Bush commuted the sentence so Libby serves no time but is still a felon and must pay the fine (or have his cronies pay it.) I couldn't think of that word (commute) so I said exonerated. Thanks for the clarification. Still an outrage though.
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 3, 2007 8:03:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I hate seeing comparisons between friends and political figures. minor possession that really does no harm to anyone except maybe yourself and you get a fine. Huge felony in the coorporate world and you get a fine plus probation. and altho $250,000 would take several several years for someone like me to pay off, it'll take 5 minutes for them.
Post by spookymonster on Jul 3, 2007 8:21:37 GMT -5
Another sad chapter in this sordid tale:
By receiving a commuted sentence instead of a pardon, Libby can continue to invoke the 5th amendment, and therefore cannot be 'forced' to testify against Don W and Capo de Tuti Capo Cheney (the pardon would've given him amnesty from any incriminating testimony).
Yea he just comute the sentence instead of pardoning him. Anyone should have been able to see this coming. Some of the last jabs from a dying administration.
But the crap part is every president does it. We need a change in politics not just a change in politicians.
Anyone else out there believe that commuting the prison sentence of one who could testify against you is RAQUETEERING ?
Time to drop the RICO statutes on this Traitor.
OH wait, that would take a Democrat(or group of them) with balls-or at least some integrity. What are the candidates saying ? Better yet, what are they doing ?
Or maybe it would take a Republican(or group of them) not just to say they are disgusted, but to act in the country's behalf, and stand behind impeachment of this treasonous snake.
Libby couldn't do ONE DAY, but Plame's career was ruined, life was put in jeapardy, all over her husband telling the TRUTH about the "threat" in Iraq. >:(Disgusting tastes better than this.
Just another thing to file in "The Bush Administration is Above the Law" folder.
I'm done with the party system, Republican and Democrat. We've reached a point where it is no longer constructive and restricts the possibilities of our country and government. I, personally, am tired of the constant pissing contest.
What goes around comes around, and these jerkbags will get what's coming to them. And I can't wait to watch.
You're right, snooch, disgusting DOES taste better than this.
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
As a convicted felon, is he no longer allowed to vote? That would be some small bit of karma, I suppose...
Libby knows voting is a ruse.
Who's gonna be any different that has enough dough to stand against what this represents for those in power or those with the corporate connections to seek it ?
Get Libby naked, on a dog leash, with electrical probes on his boys. Then we let him vote(confess).
Post by cory's beard on Jul 3, 2007 11:28:37 GMT -5
Even if Libby still has the fine and the end of his career, it's still the principle behind this that irritates me. It even irritated me when Clinton did it.
I would support a constitutional amendment to abolish the presidential pardon and other similar powers. Why have a jury decide someone's fate and a judge decide someone's sentence if the executive branch can effectively turn around and override it?
This "check of power" is not needed, as it puts too much power in the hand of the executive branch.
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 3, 2007 11:33:58 GMT -5
explicitkarma said:
Even if Libby still has the fine and the end of his career, it's still the principle behind this that irritates me. It even irritated me when Clinton did it.
I would support a constitutional amendment to abolish the presidential pardon and other similar powers. Why have a jury decide someone's fate and a judge decide someone's sentence if the executive branch can effectively turn around and override it?
This "check of power" is not needed, as it puts too much power in the hand of the executive branch.
At first I was hesitant to agree to this, but then after thinking I believe it is a valid point. Since there are multiple people on a jury and not just one, it is hard for any one single member to persuade the entire jury to an unreasonable verdict. Presidential pardons are more like favors it seems...
The Constitution and Bill of Rights are slowly becoming outdated, it almost seems nowadays. Who knows what the best solution is...
*i like coconuts, you can break them open they smell like ladies lyin in the sun** *Hell I don't even know where I am** *for now I must sit here and ponder the yonder: The herbivores did well cause their food didn't never run** *We listen, if it feels good We shake** *You made a big impression for a girl of your size, Now I can't get by without you and your big brown eyes.**
alyroo
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo Princess of Blinkytown and moonpie expert
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Even if Libby still has the fine and the end of his career, it's still the principle behind this that irritates me. It even irritated me when Clinton did it.
I just have to point out that while both were convicted of perjury and obstructing justice the circumstances could not be more different. Not to excuse him but Clinton lied about a personal matter. Marital affairs are not even illegal. Libby lied about a conspiracy to espose a CIA agent, a capital offense. This exposure not only ruined an agents career but exposed a CIA company which potentially exposed thousands of other agents and destroyed a multi-million dollar, multi-year operation.
Both were wrong but any comparisons beyond the technical charge is ludicrous.
But the President has never been held to account in his life. Why should he think anyone would start now?
Until we as a people get fed up and do something about it, things will only get worse. Welcome to Idiot America!
HEADED TO BONNAROO!!!!
