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there is no way that you can compare the 80,000 people that will show up for the dead and wsp, or even radiohead and dave, to the mainstream asshats that tool, the police, the white stripes or van halen would bring in.
Sooooo....if I was drawn to Bonnaroo so I would have a chance to see the White Stripes and the Police (among others), does that mean I'm an asshat?
it might ya dont seem like an asshat though. i know nascar people that arent rednecks. i know wwf wrestling fans that arent morons. its not a hard and fast rule. but the new lineup has definitely brought in some asshats that had never heard of roo before the radio bands showed up. they arent all asshats. but a much larger percentage of them are imo. present company excluded of course
Last Edit: Aug 8, 2007 17:35:45 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
oh, you mean like tool? and how everybody freaked that tool would ruin roo with their metal music and their metal fans? and how the police fans would ruin roo with their leg warmers and pink polo shirts and white don johnson sport coats? oh wait, they worked out pretty good. wern't there threads on this board about this same kind of sterotyping of tool and the police? as far as i know, i think the 1st time- 15- year- old- burner and the 50- year- old- veteran and the 20- something- metal- head got along just fine at roo '07. people who truely dig music (and go to roo) are there for the same reason you are. the music yo! ;D
No I never once thought Tool or The Police would ruin Bonnaroo. Both of those bands have pretty different fan bases but I know a lot of Tool fans can appreciate The Police and vice versa.
I just think VH has a little more divided fan base. For example, people who claim VH sucked with David Lee Roth, and those who think they sucked with Sammy Hagar. Personally, I like VH either way because I appreciate Eddie Van Halen and could care less about who is singing what, though Roth did make for some interesting lyrics in his day. And talk about the spandex, but let me not digress
I just think VH is one of those bands that is so largely popular and has such a diverse fan base that they would be best suited to playing their own tour versus a large festival, unless it was a festival that doesn't have camping or something.
I can already see I've been smited for saying that I just think VH has more potential issues than Tool and The Police. But I guess basically I think VH has obtained a different sort of success that puts them in a different category.
Just my 2 cents And I agree with the person who said U2 is the only potential big name that would headline, but I think Bono's agenda lies elsewhere. Just to clarify so I don't get smited even more, I love U2 and Bono, but heart lies in global issues. While I think he would appreciate a festival like Roo that brings so many different people together, unless it was somehow going to further his global goals, I don't see it happening.
Anyway, before I end up with negative karma beyond all reason, I am going to stop Don't want to start another war about who should play what and where, because I would go to Roo regardless.
word. i just didn't want the whole "those band's fans will ruin roo" thing to get started all over again. i love me some EARLY vh, but would not like to see them at roo. i will pay for somewhere else. and for the record, the smite was not from this guy. here is some karma for the balance!
Sigh. You know....I just love live music. All kinds. OK, so country isn't at the TOP of my list, but hey, if that's all that's going on that day....I'll take it over nothing. I have NEVER gone a day in my life that I didn't listen to some sort of music, at least that I was concious and can remember.....
I also pretty much like most people....I mean, you have to be a REALLY nasty, evil person or have done something really nasty or evil to me or someone I know before I automatically don't like you. Rarely make snap judgements based on stereotypes....can't say NEVER cause I'm human
Point being.....I had heard that the "Hippie Festival" up in Manchester attracted a "bad crowd" that I "didn't want to get caught up in by association...." Yeah, it's pretty conservative around here. I knew better, but could never convince anyone to go with me. This year I said "Fuck 'em" and decided even if I had to go alone I would go. Ended up I didn't have to, then I found Inforoo and all you great peeps and knew everything was going to be beyond cool! And it was the most AWESOME experience ever....yeah a few black spots on the sun here and there, but overall killer! ;D
Now I hear all this intolerance and exclusivity.....I didn't hear ANY of this before 'Roo....and not much AT 'Roo. Maybe I wasn't looking/going to the right shows/places? I mean, I understand wanting to keep 'Roo as something special, and to not "ruin" it or let it become another Woodstock or Lolly or Coach....but turning it into a snobby "hippie fest" that won't tolerate any other kind of music or any other kind of fan....that's not right either. That just makes you as bad as the asshat conservative bible thumpers that look down their noses at you for your lifestyle.....There will always be room for all music and all fans....new festivals pop up every day...got an email for something today, sure it's been posted on the Which thread and I just never noticed it before....just don't "ruin" Bonnaroo by excluding too much as you accuse Superfly of "ruining" it by opening it up too much.....
I think the whole argument of whose fans are asshats and ruining 'Roo and whose fans are good people is off base. I've seen Deadheads who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. The last time I saw The Grateful Dead was in Orlando, just before Jerry died, there were riots caused by a bunch of asshat(I think I like that word) GD fans. In 2005 at 'Roo my neighbors were pricks. This year I camped next to some Tool fans that were exceptionally cool people.
The people I have a problem with are the ones that aren't even there for the music. They're just there to ingest as many intoxicants as possible and to ogle the nearly naked(and the naked ) hippie chicks. Really they should just go to Burning Man or something and leave Bonnaroo for music fans.
And just for the record I don't think the Police were a misstep, they just failed to deliver a great show. Sting's fault not Superfly's.
Sigh. You know....I just love live music. All kinds. OK, so country isn't at the TOP of my list, but hey, if that's all that's going on that day....I'll take it over nothing. I have NEVER gone a day in my life that I didn't listen to some sort of music, at least that I was concious and can remember.....
I also pretty much like most people....I mean, you have to be a REALLY nasty, evil person or have done something really nasty or evil to me or someone I know before I automatically don't like you. Rarely make snap judgements based on stereotypes....can't say NEVER cause I'm human
Point being.....I had heard that the "Hippie Festival" up in Manchester attracted a "bad crowd" that I "didn't want to get caught up in by association...." Yeah, it's pretty conservative around here. I knew better, but could never convince anyone to go with me. This year I said "Fuck 'em" and decided even if I had to go alone I would go. Ended up I didn't have to, then I found Inforoo and all you great peeps and knew everything was going to be beyond cool! And it was the most AWESOME experience ever....yeah a few black spots on the sun here and there, but overall killer! ;D
Now I hear all this intolerance and exclusivity.....I didn't hear ANY of this before 'Roo....and not much AT 'Roo. Maybe I wasn't looking/going to the right shows/places? I mean, I understand wanting to keep 'Roo as something special, and to not "ruin" it or let it become another Woodstock or Lolly or Coach....but turning it into a snobby "hippie fest" that won't tolerate any other kind of music or any other kind of fan....that's not right either. That just makes you as bad as the asshat conservative bible thumpers that look down their noses at you for your lifestyle.....There will always be room for all music and all fans....new festivals pop up every day...got an email for something today, sure it's been posted on the Which thread and I just never noticed it before....just don't "ruin" Bonnaroo by excluding too much as you accuse Superfly of "ruining" it by opening it up too much.....
it sounds like it REALLY is YOUR roo. and we're all just able to go. have you ever seen that south park where cartman gets his own amusement park? long story short. he thinks it's so great that he is the only one allowed in. then he needs $$ to make the park run so he lets some "cool" people in at first. he still needs more $$. he ends up letting in "everyone" in so he can pay for it. and at the end he hates it because all these "asshats" are in his park that he wanted all to himself. if you complain about roo so much, maybe you should go and get your own amusement park cartman.
it sounds like it REALLY is YOUR roo. and we're all just able to go. have you ever seen that south park where cartman gets his own amusement park? long story short. he thinks it's so great that he is the only one allowed in. then he needs $$ to make the park run so he lets some "cool" people in at first. he still needs more $$. he ends up letting in "everyone" in so he can pay for it. and at the end he hates it because all these "asshats" are in his park that he wanted all to himself. if you complain about roo so much, maybe you should go and get your own amusement park cartman.
smite away.
well its a bit different. it would be more like taking a bad ass park with a bunch of bad ass rides and then changing them to janky superman and mickey mouse rides that arent nearly as much fun but cost 3 times as much. and then charge outrageous vending prices and crazy vending rules so that its not feasable for a small time festie vendor to do their thing. its not hand made art, pipes and clothes anymore its the professional vendors that buy bulk from malaysia and sell crappy stuff at inflated prices. the small guys have been priced out. its all about the profits. its a bit different then what you described. but if i had my own park you bet your ass it would be sweet. and no smites from me. here have an exalt.
it sounds like it REALLY is YOUR roo. and we're all just able to go. have you ever seen that south park where cartman gets his own amusement park? long story short. he thinks it's so great that he is the only one allowed in. then he needs $$ to make the park run so he lets some "cool" people in at first. he still needs more $$. he ends up letting in "everyone" in so he can pay for it. and at the end he hates it because all these "asshats" are in his park that he wanted all to himself. if you complain about roo so much, maybe you should go and get your own amusement park cartman.
smite away.
well its a bit different. it would be more like taking a bad ass park with a bunch of bad ass rides and then changing them to janky superman and mickey mouse rides that arent nearly as much fun but cost 3 times as much. and then charge outrageous vending prices and crazy vending rules so that its not feasable for a small time festie vendor to do their thing. its not hand made art, pipes and clothes anymore its the professional vendors that buy bulk from malaysia and sell crappy stuff at inflated prices. the small guys have been priced out. its all about the profits. its a bit different then what you described. but if i had my own park you bet your ass it would be sweet. and no smites from me. here have an exalt.
Different strokes for different folks. I for one think the lineup this year was far superior to any past years lineup.
I also think the crowd that All Good pulls every year is much more annoying and full of "asshats" than anything I experienced at Bonnaroo.
But then again, I'm definitely going to assure you that I'm probably one of the "asshats" at Bonnaroo this year that killed your buzz.
Post by strumntheguitar on Aug 9, 2007 7:48:37 GMT -5
Well, I've given up on leaving this thread to VH talk so I guess I might as well chime in again...
Has anyone ever given thought to the possibility that maybe the more diverse lineups aren't the reason for diverse crowds? Here's how I've seen it happen, maybe it won't make sense to you or you won't agree with it, but it makes perfect sense in my head...
When Roo began in 2002, I never heard about it. I never heard anyone mention it until 2003. I asked people about it, trying to get a feel for what it really is like and nobody I knew could tell me anything. I wouldn't have gone in these early years anyways, because I'm a young whippersnapper and wouldn't have even been 18 yet at the time. I first wanted to go in 2005, sort of as a high school graduation present to myself. I started asking friends and somehow in 2005 everybody knew about it by then, and I did not need any explaining like was needed before 2005. Now, I never went in these early years but from what I can tell the style of music really didn't change much between 2002-2005. But somehow, more people knew about it and were attracted to it. Naturally, people find out about something sweet and they tell their friends about it who in turn tell their friends. With the larger groups of people attending, naturally the more diverse the crowd will be. So, is it really the diverse music that's bringing "nonhippies" to Bonnaroo? I don't think so. I think it's just the result of the festival starting to spread and more people are hearing about it. Every band can have it's stereotype followers. The Dead can attract only dirty hippies who are spun out of their heads on 5 different drugs at once, Dave would only attract the popped collar fratties who play beer pong whenever Dave isn't on stage, Tool will bring all the arseholes, and the White Stripes might bring out the mainstream radio followers who don't really know shit about music. The list goes on and on. I think rather than these bands bringing them to the festival, instead a certain crowd's presence might be more prevalent and noticed while their stereotypical band is performing. I have a friend who is obsessed with Tool. He might be considered a stereotypical Tool fan too, on some days (maybe most days...). He's been to Bonnaroo since 2003. He was ecstatic when he found out Tool was playing this year, but he had chosen to be a true Bonnarooster way before Tool was ever even in the works of consideration.
Just some food for thought, it might not make any sense but like I said... it seemed logical in my head before I tried to put it into words. I just think that some people are oblivious to the fact that maybe the performers aren't responsible for a more diverse crowd, rather just the natural growth of the festival is.
I think your point is arguably true; I can certainly see that the more word of mouth spreads, the more people will come, and the more people that come, the more different the people will be. . . I think the problem comes from the fact that the more "mainstream" bands they attract, the less it becomes about word of mouth and the more they depend on radio and advertising to draw people in. It seems to me that a big part of the argument that is being made is that Roo is becoming too much about getting more and more people in (through whatever type of music happens to be popular/whatever type of music will draw a bigger crowd) without any real interest in creating a better festival atmosphere.
It makes sense to me. Maybe that's because we're sharing a brain, but maybe you've got a point.
The diversity of the crowd attending Bonnaroo is a result of the natural evolution of the festival. The word has gotten out. Anyone who expected something as increadible as Roo to remain a secret probably still trades cassette tapes of Phish shows.
I happen to love the ever changing diverse lineup. I listen to a diverse array of music. I may have been to dozens of Phish shows, but I've also seen everyone from Nine Inch Nails to the Village People to Pearl Jam to the Beastie Boys. I'm a music fan, plain and simple.
I think the evolution of the crowd at Bonnaroo has more to do with the evolution of Americans and pop culture. Maybe I'm just getting old. Six years have passed. It seems to me that the population in general is different. These days too many parents can't be bothered to teach their kids common courtesy. The 80's was supposedly the "me" decade, but what about now? With the advent of modern technology, nobody has to take the time to actually think anymore. And many of our daily routines have become more impersonal. It just seems to me that you are going to run into rude, selfish, obnoxious people whereever you go. Why would a festival like Bonnaroo be any different? To blame it on any particular band and their fans is completely absurd.
yeah, and ended up marrying that guy several years down the road so he would be there and we would laugh our booties off
So what you're saying is you can't listen to that song without something coming off?
We were talking about possibly having a cover of it like from Aztec Camera or something chiller for our first dance but thought my mom may be embarassed
Hi, my name is Alison. this was my first Bonnaroo.
I am not sure how I heard about it, but I had never heard about it until this year. Read it in a magazine? Saw it on MySpace? MSNBC.com? no clue but I saw so many artist performing. Ones that I already liked (White Stripes, Rocco deLuca, etc.), ones my husband loved (Tool, Clutch), and many that I knew but had never seen live (Lips, Gov't Mule, John Butler, etc.) and thought it would be a cool concept. Oh, and I like camping too.
So I am not a hippie, but I am a music lover. Maybe I wasn't decked out in tye dye and patchwork, maybe I did have a lipgloss in my Camelbak. But you know what? I had an amazing experience, met fabulous people, became utterly obsessed with so many more artists, learned a bit about myself and plan to go again in 2008.
I don't think anyone would describe me as an "asshat." I can be described as many things, but I am a pretty decent human being. And really... I think it's more people like me that are finding out - the music lovers who want to be exposed to more, than the jerks who throw trash and beat people up and get wasted and miss the shows.
80,000 people... yeah I met a few jerks, but mostly I met amazing people from all walks of life, all different music interests, all joined together for one common passion. And it's a passion that I would like to share, not keep it exclusive. If that means dealing with corny Garnier Fructis showers, so be it. As long as the music continues to be diverse, the people to generally be good... then I will return.
And though I lost my virginity to VH , I'd rather see many other bands at Bonnaroo than them. If they do show up, I'll still go... I don't think one band can ruin a whole festival. I didn't see Tool and still had a phenomenal time...
Or they could be people like me. I love, love, love live music, but am definitely not a camper. My sister (alieblue) decided to go and convinced me that I could be a camper for 4 days. I went and had the best time - am definitely going next year.
And when I came home and explained how a non-camper can enjoy camping at a festival, some of my non-camping friends realized that it wouldn't be that bad and they shouldn't miss out on a good thing just because they have to sleep in a tent.
I started asking friends and somehow in 2005 everybody knew about it by then, and I did not need any explaining like was needed before 2005. Now, I never went in these early years but from what I can tell the style of music really didn't change much between 2002-2005. But somehow, more people knew about it and were attracted to it. Naturally, people find out about something sweet and they tell their friends about it who in turn tell their friends. With the larger groups of people attending, naturally the more diverse the crowd will be. So, is it really the diverse music that's bringing "nonhippies" to Bonnaroo?
2004 was the first big shift away from the roots and towards the more mainstream. i love dave but him being there in 04 and 05 is why everyone suddenly knew about roo. and idont know if yall have noticed but everyone and their mom knows about roo now. my mom heard about it on a country pop station. my friend who listens to nothing but true garbage heard about it on the top 40 station and my uncle heard about it on the local metallica/gnr station. and my grandma saw it on cnn. and all of those outlets werent talking about anything but radio bands. hell they had the headliners as the police, tool, and the whitestripes. i never heard wsp entioned on a mainstrea media outlet even though they were headliners. it was all tool, white stripes, fountains of wayne, dierks bently, and the police. so yes i think that its the mainstream lineups that have grabbed the attention of the mainstreamers. and the hipsters have taken over a good portion of the lineup too. i dont really mind with the hipsters. i like some of the music. they just seem like such a quiet and depressed bunch. not a whole lot of fun at fests imo. but im sure im biased. i love my hippie paradises (nelson ledges!!!) im not sure how all "hippies" got lumped into a jam or nothing category. i really dont see much more diversity out of roo if you take away the radio bands. most fests have rock/jam, jazz, soul, bluegrass, hiphop, elctronic/trance/rave, and whatever other labels we can come up with.
I went to my first 'roo for only three reasons: Tom Petty, Beck and Dr. John
am I an idiot because I like Tom Petty and Beck or because I went mainly for the commercial bands that was playing??? I don't think so - I ended up hearing alot of music I would never have heard and loving it.
Did I return for The Police - nope - I returned to see Tool - again - am I an idiot because I went mainly to see the commercial bands - I don't think so - once again - I was introduced to other music that I had never heard and aside from some minor inconveniences, had a good time.
..... most fests have rock/jam, jazz, soul, bluegrass, hiphop, elctronic/trance/rave, and whatever other labels we can come up with.
WSP,Gvt Mule, Bob Weir check off rock/jam Blue Note Cafe , Ornette Coleman- check off Jazz (if you didn't check it out it's your own damn fault... ) Ben Harper, Mavis Staples and many others that aren't right on the top of my head check off for soul..... Ralph Stanley is the GODFATHER of bluegrass, Uncle Earl - double check! Girl Talk, El-P, Galactic (they can double in electronic too) check DJ Shadow, Sasha and Digi, Girl Talk ...
I mean , I am beginning to think that either we talk a different language with the music labels (as in radiobands are anything that has EVER been played on any radio station ever which is almost everything) or maybe we weren't at the same Bonnaroo? ???
I started asking friends and somehow in 2005 everybody knew about it by then, and I did not need any explaining like was needed before 2005. Now, I never went in these early years but from what I can tell the style of music really didn't change much between 2002-2005. But somehow, more people knew about it and were attracted to it. Naturally, people find out about something sweet and they tell their friends about it who in turn tell their friends. With the larger groups of people attending, naturally the more diverse the crowd will be. So, is it really the diverse music that's bringing "nonhippies" to Bonnaroo?
2004 was the first big shift away from the roots and towards the more mainstream. i love dave but him being there in 04 and 05 is why everyone suddenly knew about roo. and idont know if yall have noticed but everyone and their mom knows about roo now. my mom heard about it on a country pop station. my friend who listens to nothing but true garbage heard about it on the top 40 station and my uncle heard about it on the local metallica/gnr station. and my grandma saw it on cnn. and all of those outlets werent talking about anything but radio bands. hell they had the headliners as the police, tool, and the whitestripes. i never heard wsp entioned on a mainstrea media outlet even though they were headliners. it was all tool, white stripes, fountains of wayne, dierks bently, and the police. so yes i think that its the mainstream lineups that have grabbed the attention of the mainstreamers. and the hipsters have taken over a good portion of the lineup too. i dont really mind with the hipsters. i like some of the music. they just seem like such a quiet and depressed bunch. not a whole lot of fun at fests imo. but im sure im biased. i love my hippie paradises (nelson ledges!!!) im not sure how all "hippies" got lumped into a jam or nothing category. i really dont see much more diversity out of roo if you take away the radio bands. most fests have rock/jam, jazz, soul, bluegrass, hiphop, elctronic/trance/rave, and whatever other labels we can come up with.
Rock/Jam- Ratdog, SCI, Widespread Panic Jazz- Something Else Tent, Ornette Coleman Bluegrass- Railroad Earth, Old Crow Medicine Show Hip Hop- Aesop Rock, El-P, Galactic Hip Hop Extravaganza Electronic/Trance/Rave- Sasha and Digweed, STS9
Maybe you should walk around a little more.... These are just a few examples of each off the top of my head from this year. I will agree that the "soul" category was lacking. Bring on The Delfonics!!!!!!
ya dont seem like an asshat though. i know nascar people that arent rednecks. i know wwf wrestling fans that arent morons. its not a hard and fast rule. but the new lineup has definitely brought in some asshats that had never heard of roo before the radio bands showed up. they arent all asshats. but a much larger percentage of them are imo. present company excluded of course 
Yeah, it's pretty conservative around here. I knew better, but could never convince anyone to go with me. This year I said "Fuck 'em" and decided even if I had to go alone I would go. Ended up I didn't have to, then I found Inforoo and all you great peeps and knew everything was going to be beyond cool! 
And it was the most AWESOME experience ever....yeah a few black spots on the sun here and there, but overall killer! ;D
