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No offense intended to anyone's tastes here and I hope I'm as open-minded (or more so) as everyone else. I was excited to see Coleman added as one of those legendary 'names' that I've heard so many times over the years but didn't know musically. I've listened now to both ends of his career from Free Jazz and The Shape of Jazz to Come through to Sound Grammer and I have to say that I find it all unlistenable. I'm not some wimpy 'melodic' listener (plenty of Throbbing Gristle and The Locust in my collection), but I can't find anything to grab a hold of in his music. I can see that it's technically brilliant, but so is NASCAR and I don't like that either.
Can anyone give me some pointers or viewpoints on why you enjoy his music?
I know...if you have to ask, you'll never understand...
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Apr 13, 2007 11:08:07 GMT -5
No need to apoligize. The simple truth is Coleman's music is not for everybody. I have many friends who love jazz but can't stand free jazz. I IS quite hard to grab a hold off, especially since it has no melodic hooks and tends to use a lot of disonance. But the hardest thing to grab on to is the unconventional chord structures. In fact, Shape of Jazz to come doesn't use a single traditional chord. It's more the idea that Coleman's compositions pushed the boundries of what was acceptable in music, and influenced everbody after him to do the same.
As for his show at Roo, he does have some dancable, funky stuff as well and I would expect him to play at least some of this at Roo. Check out that YouTube clip of him on SNL in 1979 for a taste of that (I think it's posted in the Ornette Coleman thread).
And karma for trying to broaden your musical horizions. It may take you years to understand what Coleman does on the Sax, but when you do it will be well worth it and you'll be glad you caught him at Roo.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
No offense intended to anyone's tastes here and I hope I'm as open-minded (or more so) as everyone else. I was excited to see Coleman added as one of those legendary 'names' that I've heard so many times over the years but didn't know musically. I've listened now to both ends of his career from Free Jazz and The Shape of Jazz to Come through to Sound Grammer and I have to say that I find it all unlistenable. I'm not some wimpy 'melodic' listener (plenty of Throbbing Gristle and The Locust in my collection), but I can't find anything to grab a hold of in his music. I can see that it's technically brilliant, but so is NASCAR and I don't like that either.
Can anyone give me some pointers or viewpoints on why you enjoy his music?
I know...if you have to ask, you'll never understand...
I guess my main question would be how much jazz do you listen to? It's kind of hard to give you pointers unless I know how familiar you are with the genre. Free jazz is sort of the bridge between be-bop and the avant-garde. I'm a huge fan of John Coltrane, and I tend to view Ornette Coleman's breakthroughs as being extremely important in Coltrane's development as a player.
As a side note, have you tried The Complete Science Fiction Sessions? Probably my favorite Ornette Coleman album...
Post by roolacksreality on Apr 13, 2007 13:32:23 GMT -5
I don't really know what to tell you. Jazz music is not for everyone. I love it but I know some people who just don't care for it. A lot of people I know have enjoyed it a lot more when they listen to the entire album instead of one track. Then again, maybe you already do this.
It's just an opinion. The only thing I would have against you is if you said he didn't have talent or wasn't that great. It's cool if you have respect for an artist but don't enjoy listening to him that much. However, it's a completely different thing if you were to say he sucks. Just have respect for Coleman. No one says you have to like him.
Post by oatmealschnappz on Apr 13, 2007 14:01:19 GMT -5
Jazz, especially free jazz, does tend to be love it or hate it. I love Jazz and I find the progression amazing. While I don't listen to much Free Jazz at home, the legendary complexity of a man like Coleman is undeniable in my mind. He is a living legend who has not only revolutionized how artists look at song writing and structure but, he has also been counted as a significant influence by many of the most influential artists of the last century. When people like Coltrane, Zorn, Davis and Hancock say Coleman is one of the most important song writer/musician/performers in history, I count myself as extraordinarily lucky to get a chance to see him in a setting as condusive to experimentation as Bonnaroo.
If it's not your thing, it's not your thing. Hell, I can't stand WSP. To each his own, right? Trust me though, If there is no major conflict, you should at least stop by Coleman's tent and check him out. I can't help but think that seeing him live might change your mind. Just my $0.02.
Yeah, you should drop by Ornette's tent if you don't have a major conflict. So much about the enjoyment of music is the context. If you find yourself in the right frame of mind, you might really have a good time.
Post by masshysteria on Apr 14, 2007 9:30:35 GMT -5
Yeah I am finding myself in the same situtation as ccrgmac in not getting coleman, but no matter what you have to give the man credit for what he can do. Also I would like to check him out for at least a 15 minutes jam session and say that I got to watch the legendary free jazz artist Ornette Coleman.
"That's the big thing about education. People can be book smart, but not really intelligent about anything else. A lot of times they just taking in all this information and regurgitate it. It's much more important to process it and personalize it. To apply it to your world, to your life. You have to walk the walk, or you can't really report about it honestly."
CCRGMac
Showerless Shakedown Vendor Smire Felsgood, Attorney at Law
Thanks for all the replies, I'll certainly take in some of his sets barring conflicts and keep my mind open as wide as I can.
Several people asked about my Jazz listening overall and it's almost non-existant. I was spoiled in high school as we had an English teacher who was also a session musician so he set up school concerts with Stan Getz, Stephan Grapelli, Annie Ross, Denny Wright (whose son was in my class) and many others. I always enjoyed the shows but 1977 came around and I was too punk to listen to Jazz for another 30 years...
Post by roolacksreality on Apr 14, 2007 10:28:22 GMT -5
No problem. I would go out and buy Kind of Blue by Miles Davis and listen to it from beginning to end in one sitting. Listening to albums like this really opened me up to jazz.
Some others you might consider checking out: A Love Supreme by John Coltrane The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady by Charles Mingus The Blues and the Absract Truth by Oliver Nelson Liveology by Charlie Parker
Post by poopzilla33 on Apr 14, 2007 14:06:19 GMT -5
i really dig coleman. haven't heard too much of his stuff, but i really dig shape of jazz to come, the complete science fiction sessions, and sound grammer. also while listening to theese on repeat i've realized its not for everyone
