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Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Globlist Facist Slave Dog
it appears to be from what pictures I’ve seen in the daytime. Looks like whatever it was hit the parking lot. You would think more devastating pics would have gotten out by now if they existed.
The claim is was rocket fuel because the rocket didn’t go whatever distance it was supposed to seems about the only explanation for the size of the explosion. I guess, even Israel is saying it was a failed rocket and not a targeted PIJ action.
As for casualties. It was a partial refugee camp. I saw footage from the scene last night. It was a horror show. Bodies blown apart everywhere. The original numbers are probably close to accurate. And might explain some of the false reporting. It looked like hell.
Who the fuck knows. The failed rocket idea will almost certainly be the main narrative.
it appears to be from what pictures I’ve seen in the daytime. Looks like whatever it was hit the parking lot. You would think more devastating pics would have gotten out by now if they existed.
The claim is was rocket fuel because the rocket didn’t go whatever distance it was supposed to seems about the only explanation for the size of the explosion. I guess, even Israel is saying it was a failed rocket and not a targeted PIJ action.
As for casualties. It was a partial refugee camp. I saw footage from the scene last night. It was a horror show. Bodies blown apart everywhere. The original numbers are probably close to accurate. And might explain some of the false reporting. It looked like hell.
Who the fuck knows. The failed rocket idea will almost certainly be the main narrative.
another element is that there was communication about Hamas starting to fire more powerful rockets. Rocket fuel claim is new to me
another element is that there was communication about Hamas starting to fire more powerful rockets. Rocket fuel claim is new to me
Ohh, I have no clue if any government is claiming that. I just saw it mentioned and it stuck out as something that might explain the size of the blast. Not saying I think that’s what happened for sure. I have no clue.
I did see claims on the more powerful rockets but that sorta goes in line with all the other coincidences for me. Could very well be the truth. But it’s weird that they’ve had 400 something failed rocket strikes and this one is the first to make the news and just happens to be extremely deadly.
It would honestly be easier to believe if the claim was Hamas did it on purpose to garner international support. Haha.
But like I said last night. This is one of those events were some people will believe what they want to believe. There’s just too much chaos going on.
the sound of Hamas missiles is not ANYTHING like the sound recorded on the video of the hospital being bombed.
ya the Q here is who is the more trustworthy account in a fog of war, an account that has been tracking bombs in Ukraine, Syria, and Yemen or this guy x.com/CensoredMen/status/1608892036752764928?s=20
the sound of Hamas missiles is not ANYTHING like the sound recorded on the video of the hospital being bombed.
ya the Q here is who is the more trustworthy account in a fog of war, an account that has been tracking bombs in Ukraine, Syria, and Yemen or this guy x.com/CensoredMen/status/1608892036752764928?s=20
But it’s weird that they’ve had 400 something failed rocket strikes and this one is the first to make the news and just happens to be extremely deadly.
^^this is precisely my opinion on the matter, too. I am not just pulling from a few tweets/videos and ascertaining my opinions from that alone, not at all. But some of us in this thread are simply not destined to agree on some of this, and I don't see that changing.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
ya the Q here is who is the more trustworthy account in a fog of war, an account that has been tracking bombs in Ukraine, Syria, and Yemen or this guy x.com/CensoredMen/status/1608892036752764928?s=20
But it’s weird that they’ve had 400 something failed rocket strikes and this one is the first to make the news and just happens to be extremely deadly.
^^this is precisely my opinion on the matter, too. I am not just pulling from a few tweets/videos and ascertaining my opinions from that alone, not at all. But some of us in this thread are simply not destined to agree on some of this, and I don't see that changing.
Is there any part of you that wants to wait and see what additional evidence comes in about something that happened so recently?
And are you including yourself in the group that "is just destined not to agree" regardless? That would be pretty sad.
^^this is precisely my opinion on the matter, too. I am not just pulling from a few tweets/videos and ascertaining my opinions from that alone, not at all. But some of us in this thread are simply not destined to agree on some of this, and I don't see that changing.
Is there any part of you that wants to wait and see what additional evidence comes in about something that happened so recently?
And are you including yourself in the group that "is just destined not to agree" regardless? That would be pretty sad.
ya to be clear this is more of my general take, completely agree here
^^this is precisely my opinion on the matter, too. I am not just pulling from a few tweets/videos and ascertaining my opinions from that alone, not at all. But some of us in this thread are simply not destined to agree on some of this, and I don't see that changing.
Is there any part of you that wants to wait and see what additional evidence comes in about something that happened so recently?
And are you including yourself in the group that "is just destined not to agree" regardless? That would be pretty sad.
This is also where I am. I'm one of the most gullible motherfuckers there is because as a generally honest person, I tend to take things said to me at face value - just not crisis reporting or 2nd/3rd hand accounts of events. I brought this up a few years ago, but the L.A. Times opened my eyes a month or so after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. It was an article that was called "Katrina Takes a Toll on Truth, News Accuracy." <-- And this is a lot of legitimate journalists caught up in bullshit hype.
For those too young to remember 24 hour coverage of floating bodies and basic hell in America. And it proceeded to delve pretty deeply into how word of mouth, particularly from relatively poor people in a state of pretty-much shock with no phone service, amplified stories into the tallest tales imaginable but yet those tales having been reported on major television and newspaper outlets, Rush Limbaugh and pretty much everywhere else as though they were fact. Looters taking over the city and firing on the army/national guard's planes and helicopters, a raped and beheaded child in the Superdome, general insanity, etc. But it was all bullshit. My 75 year old aunt who stayed and got flooded and ended up having to walk like 10 miles to the Convention Center lived through the horror and believed that if she went behind the building to use the bathroom that she would be raped. She believed that, and she was on the ground. So she sat in the same place for 3 days waiting to get bussed out without taking a leak. I don't even know how that's possible but apparently it was. My cousin heard it all from her directly and believed it. Of course I asked him if any of this was true, and particularly rampant murders, where are all those bodies? Surely he didn't think the NOPD was conspiring with President Bush to squash accounts of all that was going on. I knew it was b.s. but even the Mayor and Chief of Police were caught up in the rumor mills there on the ground. Anyway, I'd strongly advise everyone read this and take a deep breath before making decisions based on what they read from accounts they can't be sure aren't bullshit - even if the bullshit isn't intentional. Katrina Takes a Toll on Truth, News Accuracy
BY SUSANNAH ROSENBLATT AND JAMES RAINEY
SEPT. 27, 2005 12 AM PT TIMES STAFF WRITERS
BATON ROUGE, La. — Maj. Ed Bush recalled how he stood in the bed of a pickup truck in the days after Hurricane Katrina, struggling to help the crowd outside the Louisiana Superdome separate fact from fiction. Armed only with a megaphone and scant information, he might have been shouting into, well, a hurricane.
The National Guard spokesman’s accounts about rescue efforts, water supplies and first aid all but disappeared amid the roar of a 24-hour rumor mill at New Orleans’ main evacuation shelter. Then a frenzied media recycled and amplified many of the unverified reports.
“It just morphed into this mythical place where the most unthinkable deeds were being done,” Bush said Monday of the Superdome.
His assessment is one of several in recent days to conclude that newspapers and television exaggerated criminal behavior in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, particularly at the overcrowded Superdome and Convention Center.
The New Orleans Times-Picayune on Monday described inflated body counts, unverified “rapes,” and unconfirmed sniper attacks as among examples of “scores of myths about the dome and Convention Center treated as fact by evacuees, the media and even some of New Orleans’ top officials.”
Indeed, Mayor C. Ray Nagin told a national television audience on “Oprah” three weeks ago of people “in that frickin’ Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people.”
Journalists and officials who have reviewed the Katrina disaster blamed the inaccurate reporting in large measure on the breakdown of telephone service, which prevented dissemination of accurate reports to those most in need of the information. Race may have also played a factor.
The wild rumors filled the vacuum and seemed to gain credence with each retelling -- that an infant’s body had been found in a trash can, that sharks from Lake Pontchartrain were swimming through the business district, that hundreds of bodies had been stacked in the Superdome basement.
“It doesn’t take anything to start a rumor around here,” Louisiana National Guard 2nd Lt. Lance Cagnolatti said at the height of the Superdome relief effort. “There’s 20,000 people in here. Think when you were in high school. You whisper something in someone’s ear. By the end of the day, everyone in school knows the rumor -- and the rumor isn’t the same thing it was when you started it.”
Follow-up reporting has discredited reports of a 7-year-old being raped and murdered at the Superdome, roving bands of armed gang members attacking the helpless, and dozens of bodies being shoved into a freezer at the Convention Center.
Hyperbolic reporting spread through much of the media.
Fox News, a day before the major evacuation of the Superdome began, issued an “alert” as talk show host Alan Colmes reiterated reports of “robberies, rapes, carjackings, riots and murder. Violent gangs are roaming the streets at night, hidden by the cover of darkness.”
The Los Angeles Times adopted a breathless tone the next day in its lead news story, reporting that National Guard troops “took positions on rooftops, scanning for snipers and armed mobs as seething crowds of refugees milled below, desperate to flee. Gunfire crackled in the distance.”
The New York Times repeated some of the reports of violence and unrest, but the newspaper usually was more careful to note that the information could not be verified.
The tabloid Ottawa Sun reported unverified accounts of “a man seeking help gunned down by a National Guard soldier” and “a young man run down and then shot by a New Orleans police officer.”
London’s Evening Standard invoked the future-world fantasy film “Mad Max” to describe the scene and threw in a “Lord of the Flies” allusion for good measure.
Televised images and photographs affirmed the widespread devastation in one of America’s most celebrated cities.
“I don’t think you can overstate how big of a disaster New Orleans is,” said Kelly McBride, ethics group leader at the Poynter Institute, a Florida school for professional journalists. “But you can imprecisely state the nature of the disaster. ... Then you draw attention away from the real story, the magnitude of the destruction, and you kind of undermine the media’s credibility.”
Times-Picayune Editor Jim Amoss cited telephone breakdowns as a primary cause of reporting errors, but said the fact that most evacuees were poor African Americans also played a part.
“If the dome and Convention Center had harbored large numbers of middle class white people,” Amoss said, “it would not have been a fertile ground for this kind of rumor-mongering.”
Some of the hesitation that journalists might have had about using the more sordid reports from the evacuation centers probably fell away when New Orleans’ top officials seemed to confirm the accounts.
Nagin and Police Chief Eddie Compass appeared on “Oprah” a few days after trouble at the Superdome had peaked.
Compass told of “the little babies getting raped” at the Superdome. And Nagin made his claim about hooligans raping and killing.
State officials this week said their counts of the dead at the city’s two largest evacuation points fell far short of early rumors and news reports. Ten bodies were recovered from the Superdome and four from the Convention Center, said Bob Johannessen, spokesman for the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals.
(National Guard officials put the body count at the Superdome at six, saying the other four bodies came from the area around the stadium.)
Of the 841 recorded hurricane-related deaths in Louisiana, four are identified as gunshot victims, Johannessen said. One victim was found in the Superdome but was believed to have been brought there, and one was found at the Convention Center, he added.
Relief workers said that while the media hyped criminal activity, plenty of real suffering did occur at the Katrina relief centers.
“The hurricane had just passed, you had massive trauma to the city,” said Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard.
“No air conditioning, no sewage ... it was not a nice place to be. All those people just in there, they were frustrated, they were hot. Out of all that chaos, all of these rumors start flying.”
Louisiana National Guard Col. Thomas Beron, who headed security at the Superdome, said that for every complaint, “49 other people said, ‘Thank you, God bless you.’ ”
The media inaccuracies had consequences in the disaster zone.
Bush, of the National Guard, said that reports of corpses at the Superdome filtered back to the facility via AM radio, undermining his struggle to keep morale up and maintain order.
“We had to convince people this was still the best place to be,” Bush said. “What I saw in the Superdome was just tremendous amounts of people helping people.”
But, Bush said, those stories received scant attention in newspapers or on television.
^^this is precisely my opinion on the matter, too. I am not just pulling from a few tweets/videos and ascertaining my opinions from that alone, not at all. But some of us in this thread are simply not destined to agree on some of this, and I don't see that changing.
Is there any part of you that wants to wait and see what additional evidence comes in about something that happened so recently?
And are you including yourself in the group that "is just destined not to agree" regardless? That would be pretty sad.
are you talking specifically about the hospital bombing? of course i'm not unwilling to pivot opinion if lots of solid evidence comes forth that proves it wasn't Israeli-involved at all. my stance is resolutely Pro Palestine in the big picture sense, yes -- it is a literal genocide -- but that doesn't mean I won't allow for more nuance to my takes/stances re: individual occurrences and of course also doesn't mean that I reject the importance of supporting innocent Israeli PEOPLE (separate of their govt) who have been devastated in all this too.
ETA: it is also admittedly beyond disheartening to see Biden use this "ok it was maybe probably not Israel's fault for the deaths in this ONE INSTANCE" as reason to continue fully supporting Israel and sending them continued aid in the numbers of $$billions while Palestinians are the ones in most immediate and widespread danger right now. Biden is literally drafting a $100 BILLION foreign aid package that includes assistance for Israel & Ukraine -- awesome, good, yes -- and then NOT including Palestine in that huge ass package. it is gut wrenching.
from Reuters today: "Biden said the United States would do everything it could to ensure Israel was safe while also urging Israelis not to be consumed by rage" but of course absolutely no mention of doing that same amount of "everything it could" to ensure the countless Palestenian innocents are safe.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Is there any part of you that wants to wait and see what additional evidence comes in about something that happened so recently?
And are you including yourself in the group that "is just destined not to agree" regardless? That would be pretty sad.
are you talking specifically about the hospital bombing? of course i'm not unwilling to pivot opinion if lots of solid evidence comes forth that proves it wasn't Israeli-involved at all. my stance is resolutely Pro Palestine in the big picture sense, yes -- it is a literal genocide -- but that doesn't mean I won't allow for more nuance to my takes/stances re: individual occurrences and of course also doesn't mean that I reject the importance of supporting innocent Israeli PEOPLE (separate of their govt) who have been devastated in all this too.
ETA: it is also admittedly beyond disheartening to see Biden use this "ok it was maybe probably not Israel's fault for the deaths in this ONE INSTANCE" as reason to continue fully supporting Israel and sending them continued aid while Palestinians are the ones in most immediate and widespread danger right now.
from Reuters today: "Biden said the United States would do everything it could to ensure Israel was safe while also urging Israelis not to be consumed by rage" but of course absolutely no mention of doing that same amount of "everything it could" to ensure the countless Palestenian innocents are safe.
Post by piggy pablo on Oct 18, 2023 16:42:32 GMT -5
I can see how people might have thought it was Israel, given that Israel bombed the cancer ward of that same hospital on Saturday, told the hospital staff to evacuate, and at least one (former?) advisor to Netanyahu initially took credit for the bombing.
It is good news that the hospital is still standing and the death toll is not as high as previously thought.
Post by piggy pablo on Oct 18, 2023 16:52:13 GMT -5
I'm still not clear exactly what this guy's current station within or relation to the government is, maybe none, but here's a video of him lamenting everyone's rush to judgment about the thing he himself said:
I can see how people might have thought it was Israel, given that Israel bombed the cancer ward of that same hospital on Saturday, told the hospital staff to evacuate, and at least one advisor to Netanyahu initially took credit for the bombing.
It is good news that the hospital is still standing and the death toll is not as high as previously thought.
I would still like a ceasefire.
Sorry, Biden has to embarrass us in front of the rest of the world and vote against a ceasefire at the UN, apparently make promises to give Israel the $10 billion in aid they asked for and $100 million for Palestinian relief. We love bombing shit much more than helping obviously.
This is such a disaster for the US and Israel but they somehow can't see it.
But at least the US apparently helped with a deal to get aid into the strip. Clearly a top priority. While Israel is busy bombing a mosque and killing more children.
I'm still not clear exactly what this guy's current station within or relation to the government is, maybe none, but here's a video of him lamenting everyone's rush to judgment about the thing he himself said:
Former IDF and then a social influencer of some kind. He was on Bibi's social media team for a couple years. Bibi spoke at his wedding, etc. He's now heading some task force for war propaganda. "Fighting a war between good and evil." He wouldn't know military targets on the fly but he would presumably be fed some operational plans in order to spin them. Like his deleted posts -- there were two of them before the one that stuck-- are odd but not a smoking gun. The first one could just be prepped talking points since controversial targets were on the table. The second one seemed more like spin until more information was out or they could cover their ass. Neither are hard proof I don't think but it certainly didn't help anything one way or the other.
Post by piggy pablo on Oct 18, 2023 17:26:10 GMT -5
Yeah that's where I've landed. He seems like a propagandist that might not, probably wouldn't, actually have any intel on whether it was one side or another responsible. The tweet of his I shared does, along with his initial tweet about it being Israel, show that he is willing to be as hypocritical as he needs to be to serve whatever the current line is.
Still unclear to me but a reminder that knee jerking should be left to those who are fueled from emotion.
by knee jerking are you referring to those of us who believe or believed the hospital bombing was likely done by Israel? If that’s what you are referring to, I don’t really think that’s a fair description of the situation… as Pablo already pointed to above, there are MULTIPLE reasons to have presumed it was likely them when the news came out. Not as a knee jerk emotional reaction but due to literal facts and prior patterns.
Seems like some of y’all are just willfully forgetting/ignoring the fact that Gaza hospitals received written threats of Israeli imminent attacks upon them, like is it really so wild and “knee jerk reaction-y” for folks to then see a Gaza hospital bombed and think… yeah, it is likely coming from Israel who literally already threatened they’d do this.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Post by piggy pablo on Oct 18, 2023 23:58:19 GMT -5
This per capita framing of the Israel strike is so fucking stupid. Palestine is at-best half the population of Israel. I don't need to wade too far into the math for you to understand how bullshit this is.
This per capita framing of the Israel strike is so fucking stupid. Palestine is at-best half the population of Israel. I don't need to wade too far into the math for you to understand how bullshit this is.
some people in this thread probably would like for you to dissect the exact math — and then even so, likely still won’t buy into the idea after you’ve done so
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
This per capita framing of the Israel strike is so fucking stupid. Palestine is at-best half the population of Israel. I don't need to wade too far into the math for you to understand how bullshit this is.
We had this similar argument used in the politics thread last week…
It's amazing that people seriously want that stupid goddamn mummy to run for another 4 years.
I dont think any left-of-center Inforooster would prefer Biden be the 2024 nominee due to his age, but he's the incumbent so I'm still going to vote for him anyway come 11/5/2024. Hopefully you do too since you're very much in a swing state. In a sense your POTUS vote matters more than mine in CO.
