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Violence is a real life thing. Entertainment for the most part is reflection of real life. If there was absolutely no violence in entertainment (like movies, TV shows, and games) then all entertainment would feel like a lie to me. I don't think entertainment should be violence free (but I also don't think every form of entertainment has to have violence in it).
One of the best examples of TV entertainment is The Wire which definitely had some violence in it. If there was no violence in that show about a realistic look into the lives of cops and gangsters then I think it would be pretty boring.
Defecation is a part of real life too but I don't really have the desire to see it on the big screen. To each his own I suppose, but it is a scientific fact that violence in entertainment desensitizes people. I just can't believe that it doesn't have an impact on the millions of people watching that stuff hours a day. In my idealistic vision it would just be nice if people could make an effort to raise the mass consciousness into something a little more evolved. But people don't actually want peace.
Idealistic for sure. There are messed up, evil people in this world. I wish it wasn't such a nasty place out there as well.
Look at this guy....Med school graduate student. Bought guns legally at Bass Pro Shop and Gander Mountain Guns. If this guy can do this without any sort of "red flags" being raised, then it can happen anywhere to anyone at anytime in this society we live in.
Violent entertainment might give fuel to a fire that is already burning inside someone's deranged mind, but high powered weaponry makes the action of a person's deranged mind infinitely worse. Yes, it's fucked up that violence is much more acceptable than sex/nudity in TV, movies, and video games. But if we can all agree that there is a culture of violence in America, and obviously there is a problem if this sort of thing keeps happening time and time again with more deadly outcomes...then what do we do to change it? Curb the extremes.
a person who does something like this is very, very sick.
but to say that violence on tv, movies and video games does not effect the way our society is, is just ignorant IMO.
Did somebody in here specifically say that or are you just saying that in general.
I agree to an extent but also feel that there was plenty of violence before those things existed. So what was making those people violent?
i was saying in general.
and honestly, it is too big an issue to ever address or get rid of. we have always had violence and we always will. but IMO violence usually stems from a situation where said person feels they have no other resources other than physical harm. i wish as a society, as a world, we were more apt to deal with situations in other ways besides beating each other up or trying to kill each other.
when children are bombarded from a young age with violence on tv, movies, video games and in print then the whole factor of being desensitized comes into play. when violence becomes so casual, people do not have to think of another way to deal with things b/c harming someone seems so acceptable.
violence is only a real life thing b/c people believe they have no other outlets to make things happen in their life.
why should we perpetuate that?
Nah I disagree. I think violence is a real life thing because it's in our nature. Violence has been around longer than our modern forms of entertainment.
violence is only a real life thing b/c people believe they have no other outlets to make things happen in their life.
why should we perpetuate that?
Nah I disagree. I think violence is a real life thing because it's in our nature. Violence has been around longer than our modern forms of entertainment.
Yes, you are right. But violence in today's context is usually counterproductive. Evolutionarily speaking we should be able to move past that. Intellectually any sensible person should be able to see that it is preferable to live in a peaceful society and world. We have the intellectual capability of doing so much. We can send people to the moon and explore Mars but we find it impossible to coexist peacefully with each other. It's not that we can't figure out how. It's that people don't actually want to. Despite the "shock" that people claim when something like this happens, we don't place a value on producing a peaceful society.
~All the accumulated knowledge, experience, and suffering of mankind is inside you. You must build a huge bonfire within you. Then you will become an individual. There is no other way.
~~~U.G. Krishnamurti
"I don't know whose water this is, but I'm drinkin it so F you."~~~Dale
"He is a wook in sheep's clothing."~~~Popsicle Sarah
"You know the feeling when you're in too deep, and when you make it out, the taste - so sweet." ~~DMB
Post by lazybutterfly on Jul 20, 2012 18:34:20 GMT -5
Someone I know from school survived the shooting. Just absolutely awful. He was on a cross-country bicycle trip. Had surgery in his neck and chest to remove the pellets. I just can't even imagine having to deal with going through anything like this. Sickening.
Nah I disagree. I think violence is a real life thing because it's in our nature. Violence has been around longer than our modern forms of entertainment.
Yes, you are right. But violence in today's context is usually counterproductive. Evolutionarily speaking we should be able to move past that. Intellectually any sensible person should be able to see that it is preferable to live in a peaceful society and world. We have the intellectual capability of doing so much. We can send people to the moon and explore Mars but we find it impossible to coexist peacefully with each other. It's not that we can't figure out how. It's that people don't actually want to. Despite the "shock" that people claim when something like this happens, we don't place a value on producing a peaceful society.
I think you are misrepresenting a couple of things. The way the world is set up certain people, demographics, and even nations are pushed towards violence based on the world societies construct for them. And I think you are strawmanning people's desires for less violence. Mentally stable people do not want to see murder.
Did somebody in here specifically say that or are you just saying that in general.
I agree to an extent but also feel that there was plenty of violence before those things existed. So what was making those people violent?
i was saying in general.
and honestly, it is too big an issue to ever address or get rid of. we have always had violence and we always will. but IMO violence usually stems from a situation where said person feels they have no other resources other than physical harm. i wish as a society, as a world, we were more apt to deal with situations in other ways besides beating each other up or trying to kill each other.
when children are bombarded from a young age with violence on tv, movies, video games and in print then the whole factor of being desensitized comes into play. when violence becomes so casual, people do not have to think of another way to deal with things b/c harming someone seems so acceptable.
I think you are simplifying, with every point in this post, complex social and evolutionary pressures that make people the way they are.
yeah....i'm not really wanting to get into a sexist argument here...but you realize that's more a guy thing right?
You are being sexist and completely wrong. You're better than this. If you want to expand on this to maybe not sound so sexist, I'm sure I would find something to agree with. But that is a lazy statement in a forum where not every possible reader would understand your basis behind this.
Someone I know from school survived the shooting. Just absolutely awful. He was on a cross-country bicycle trip. Had surgery in his neck and chest to remove the pellets. I just can't even imagine having to deal with going through anything like this. Sickening.
Thank God he's ok. I can't even imagine what he will go through in the future. I'm sure all of our prayers and thoughts will be with your friend and all of the other victims.
yeah....i'm not really wanting to get into a sexist argument here...but you realize that's more a guy thing right?
Just like crying/being overly emotional and irrational are only girl things, right? This is such a bad attitude regarding gender, I love you girl, but that statement made me twitch.
The society that perpetuates violence in movies/entertainment that you disagree with, is the same society that forces gender roles and acceptable emotional attributions to men and women.
A couple of loose connections to victims. Nobody close to us, but friends of family/friends type of thing.
One was the 6 year old girl who died. Her 12 year old babysitter survived - the little girl died on one side of her, another adult on her other side. The 12 year old got out with only shrapnel wounds and, more than likely, a life altering emotional trauma. Why were children there, you might ask? Good question, but that question makes this no less awful.
The other connection was to a guy celebrating his 27th birthday. After a bit of Facebook curiosity, we realized my girlfriend's good friend is friend's with his wife. Just terrible.
As the victim info starts to trickle out, this will only become sadder.
Sorry if this is random. Just wanted to type it somewhere.
yeah....i'm not really wanting to get into a sexist argument here...but you realize that's more a guy thing right?
You are being sexist and completely wrong. You're better than this. If you want to expand on this to maybe not sound so sexist, I'm sure I would find something to agree with. But that is a lazy statement in a forum where not every possible reader would understand your basis behind this.
so what are you saying i'm completely wrong about? that guys are more violent in general? b/c that IS true.
Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male Male offender/Male victim 65.3% Male offender/Female victim 22.7% Female offender/Male victim 9.6% Female offender/Female victim 2.4%
-Males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder in 2005.
---Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 --
31% were killed by fathers 29% were killed by mothers 23% were killed by male acquaintances 7% were killed by other relatives 3% were killed by strangers
(Of those children killed by someone other than their parent, 81% were killed by males.)
---Percent distribution of multiple-offender victimizations, by type of crime and perceived sex of offenders, 2008:
number of crimes: 946,580 % male: 63.00 % female: 9.2 % male and female:19.6 % unknown: 8.2
i can list more sources and more statistics if you'd like.
yes i simplified everything but i admitted that. i said it was too big of an issue to address completely or get rid of. so what are you really arguing about with me? lets look at all these shootings which is exactly why we are talking about this in the first place....when was the last shooting or mass murder you can think of that involved a female?
sorry, i admit its a generalization but they have those for a reason. men ARE more violent in general and they DO resort to violence more often than women.
for those of you men who do NOT resort to violence, i recognize and appreciate you. but to say that men aren't more violent in general, just isn't true.
i still stand by the opinion that PEOPLE who are violent are violent b/c they feel like they have no other outlet. that just happens to be men more often that not.
Obviously he was 'sick in the head' but that doesn't really tell us anything meaningful. I guess I just don't find stuff like this terribly surprising given the environment we create.
But you should. You still should.
I've grown up with and seen all manner of violence in movies, on TV, video games, etc, but I'm not desensitized to it when it's real. Whenever I've seen real violence with my own 2 eyes, on the internet (God knows I wished I hadn't clicked those links), News or what ever it's abso-fucking-lutely horrible every time. It disgusts me.
What you see in movies or TV drama is make believe. What you just saw was special effects and camera work. It's not real. It's a story. Just about every story from the dawn of fiction contains some element of violence. If violence in entertainment perpetuated violence in real life we'd have never advanced beyond the dark ages. We'd probably be hiding in holes killing the first person we saw because they might kill us.
None of the mass murders I'm aware of that occurred had a video game or movie depicting them prior to their occurrence.
i still stand by the opinion that PEOPLE who are violent are violent b/c they feel like they have no other outlet. that just happens to be men more often that not.
This is so incredibly reductive and really doesn't have much of a place in a debate about a complex social issue.
You are being sexist and completely wrong. You're better than this. If you want to expand on this to maybe not sound so sexist, I'm sure I would find something to agree with. But that is a lazy statement in a forum where not every possible reader would understand your basis behind this.
so what are you saying i'm completely wrong about? that guys are more violent in general? b/c that IS true.
Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male Male offender/Male victim 65.3% Male offender/Female victim 22.7% Female offender/Male victim 9.6% Female offender/Female victim 2.4%
-Males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder in 2005.
---Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 --
31% were killed by fathers 29% were killed by mothers 23% were killed by male acquaintances 7% were killed by other relatives 3% were killed by strangers
(Of those children killed by someone other than their parent, 81% were killed by males.)
---Percent distribution of multiple-offender victimizations, by type of crime and perceived sex of offenders, 2008:
number of crimes: 946,580 % male: 63.00 % female: 9.2 % male and female:19.6 % unknown: 8.2
i can list more sources and more statistics if you'd like.
yes i simplified everything but i admitted that. i said it was too big of an issue to address completely or get rid of. so what are you really arguing about with me? lets look at all these shootings which is exactly why we are talking about this in the first place....when was the last shooting or mass murder you can think of that involved a female?
sorry, i admit its a generalization but they have those for a reason. men ARE more violent in general and they DO resort to violence more often than women.
for those of you men who do NOT resort to violence, i recognize and appreciate you. but to say that men aren't more violent in general, just isn't true.
It seems like you are saying there is something intrinsic in a person's biologic gender that makes them more violent, and I do not believe that it is at all true. I believe the reductive nature of your stances in this thread either do not frame your beliefs in a positive light or you are completely ignoring the very socially constructed reasons for the statistics you cite above.
And your last paragraph is so quacking condescending. Hey women that have a job I really recognize and appreciate your contribution to society outside of the house. You really are better than that paragraph.
generalizations are lazy and have no place in the intellectually honest and mature conversation we're trying to have
actually if you'd like me to give you a more simplified (and a real life one to boot) example since you don't seem to grasp what i'm saying:
my first year i taught, i taught second grade. it was the second month of school. one of my students and his little brother, who was 5 yrs old rode the bus. there were no monitors on the bus, no one to watch the older kids (we have 5th graders up to 12 yrs old) to makes sure they are behaving etc.
day after day this little boy was having trouble with an older student verbally abusing him. "i'm going to kill your family, i'm going to beat you up, etc". the older boy was reprimanded but since he "didn't really do anything", nothing much happened.
the next week that little boy brought a knife on the bus. A SEVEN YEAR OLD. when he was caught, he said "i didn't know what else to do."
THAT is what i mean, when i say people feel they have no other outlets.
so do NOT tell me i have no idea what i'm talking about when i work everyday with people who's lives are shrouded in violence.
actually if you'd like me to give you a more simplified (and a real life one to boot) example since you don't seem to grasp what i'm saying:
my first year i taught, i taught second grade. it was the second month of school. one of my students and his little brother, who was 5 yrs old rode the bus. there were no monitors on the bus, no one to watch the older kids (we have 5th graders up to 12 yrs old) to makes sure they are behaving etc.
day after day this little boy was having trouble with an older student verbally abusing him. "i'm going to kill your family, i'm going to beat you up, etc". the older boy was reprimanded but since he "didn't really do anything", nothing much happened.
the next week that little boy brought a knife on the bus. A SEVEN YEAR OLD. when he was caught, he said "i didn't know what else to do."
THAT is what i mean, when i say people feel they have no other outlets.
so do NOT tell me i have no idea what i'm talking about when i work everyday with people who's lives are shrouded in violence.
why do you have to jump to being defensive? nowhere did I say that you don't know what you're talking about.
do you think there are no forces, outside of the immediate fear, at work to make the boy thinking he needed to resort to bring a knife to protect himself?
and I do not see how this is relevant to the larger discussion of a lack of biological determinism in violence in our culture