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The cost to the taxpayer for this is in the $425-450K range. Our recall process would have been a month shorter and a half million cheaper if not for this underhanded tactic. Tell me, do you approve or disapprove of what they did here?
He would approve, if it helped the Republicans in any way shape or form. As long as the R holds power. he's good with whatever.
...Not sure why you feel your opinions or ideas are better than your GOP counterparts??. Both groups including yourself seem to be caught up in who can bring the nation to it's knees faster....
the only stat I follow is american politician 100 american citizen -14 trillion
Right now I'ma bit more than drunk. So postin' in a political thread is now 100x more dumb than before fer me.
chicagorooer I abbreviated your quote, I hpoe that's okay. I actually agree to some extent with your last sentence, about who can bring our nation to it's knees sooner. It's sad to me that I grew up believin' that my country was above amazin and now we seem just mediocre, and worse in some areas (some that I don't think you and I agree on, but that's another post).
This post is gonna be a weird one, but hopefully worth the time.
So there's only two people in the entire office who are actually paid employees of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, Nick and Zach. There was some kind of meeting/training for all the statewide DPW employees going on elsewhere in town, so Nick & Zach were both out for the day. I have never been in there without the presence of one, the other, or both. DGP was in charge of the office, so there was a bit of a case of "when the cat's away, the mice will play" going on. It was DGP, myself, Katie the hippie & Paige the sorority girl as far as the "adults" went, and four (maybe five) of the high school interns. One of the high school interns, Madelyn, was browsing on her laptop while making calls and found an article about the glittering of Marcus Bachmann's "pray the gay away" clinic. She mentioned this, between calls, to Katie & Paige. It turned out that out of everyone on duty, only Madelyn, DGP & myself even knew what a glitter bomb was. DGP & I at that point stopped everything, rounded up Katie & Paige & all the high schoolers, and gathered them around DGP's laptop in the main office. We made them all watch the glittering of Newt Gingrich, the glittering of Tim Pawlenty, and the (attempted?) glittering of Michelle Bachmann before anyone was allowed to do anything else. We went back to business as usual after that.
For me, that meant I had to train the incoming group of 3pm phone bank volunteers. We just shifted gears after the Hansen victory on Tuesday to a type of call we just started making on Wednesday, and it's a bit more complicated than our usual scripts to boot. DPW sent out absentee ballot request forms to people who met certain criteria - past volunteers/donors, people who signed recall petitions for this particular Republican senator's recall, stuff like that. As far as the lists we call to go, it's pretty friendly... but the mechanics of it are a bit intricate and I don't have it down 100% just yet. That script is twice as long as the previous ones and works like a freakin' Choose Your Own Adventure book at some points. It was my first time training volunteers on this script and there was some mild turbulence as I went over it with them. I've done worse trainings, but I'm hard-pressed to think of more than a couple. I got to the point where I'd satisfactorily righted my course, and was at the point where I was taking any questions before everyone dispersed to do these absentee request follow-up calls...
At this point, DGP walked into the room with a taller, serious-looking man with slicked-back hair and well-dressed, albeit entirely in black. DGP put my training on hold and said there was someone who'd like to meet everyone there. I had a deer in the headlights moment, thinking I was going to have to finish that training out in front of some kind of party insider or elected official I couldn't recognize. That wasn't the case.
He introduced himself as Bowzer and told everyone they probably remembered him from Sha Na Na and/or Grease.
I feel the description above identifies him in the video.
Bowzer starts telling the group that he came out from California to help with the fight in our state, that he'd been to five of the six recall districts campaigning for the Democrats and people only believe he is who he is when he canvasses doors... and proceeds to demonstrate how he ends his spiel to potential voters. He went through the "bop-ba-ba-bop" bit and said replaced "Blue Moon" with "Jess King." He went through that with a few of our other candidates' names, and showed off his encore for those voters who said they'd vote for whom he was campaigning. The abbreviated version goes "bop-ba-ba-bop...thank you."
I knew he'd been around; I'd seen fellow campaigners in other districts around the state mention his presence on Twitter while I was up north for the Hansen election. Our office only supports sister offices which, unlike Madison, actually have recall elections underway. It was not only a surprise but a ginormous WTF? moment to have Bowzer bop-ba-ba-bopping in the middle of my training session. I said I knew I'd seen he was around the state, but I didn't really know who was being talked about until I heard him "bop-ba-ba-bop" while I was trying to wrap up my Q&A.
I took a couple questions after DGP & Bowzer left the room, got the volunteers their phones and got them going on calls. I made the rounds right away, because I (correctly) assumed that this more complicated call script would probably have a rocky start for them too.
I caught up with DGP in the office talking with Bowzer ten minutes or so later. Sure, pretty much anyone in the office is down to wax political at any time, but it seemed to me DGP was a bit cornered in this particular instance. That Bowzer's a friendly one. He signed a couple random posters sitting around. It was the three of us in the main office, and DGP found himself some reason to slip away. I didn't really know any of his music off the top of my head save for "bop-ba-ba-bop," but that didn't come up because I got him on the topic of our candidates instead, asking whether he'd met any of them. At that point he wanted to step out into the front room (maybe because there were more people there?) at which point he proceeded to track down and thank everyone in the office he hadn't already gotten to.
The volunteers were older; they seemed to remember him fondly. I was at least able to pin him down to a song I recognized. None of the other leads/interns in the office, who are all either high schoolers or younger 20s, had any idea who the hell this guy was beyond some guy their parents probably listened to before they were born. But me, I'm thirty and I told him so. He told the surrounding high-schoolers and college-age interns that his music was something their parents probably listened to, but that someone like me probably knew Sha Na Na's stuff... and I'd probably been to one of their shows, right? I led him to the section of our dry erase board where state legislators who've stopped by have been signing to thank volunteers. Sure, Bowzer had this air about him which just seemed like he was desperately clinging to a withered fifteenth minute of fame, but even though there was some generational awkwardness, he seems to be a nice intelligent guy who's fighting the good fight as well. Ever true to the greaser schtick, he signed the board "T'ank youse, Bowzer." He eventually left not too long after, but not until he'd made sure he'd already talked to every last person in the office. I'm not sure if he was in Madison for this statewide meeting happening elsewhere, or just passing through between recall districts.
About an hour after he left... he came back.
I was sorting through the stacks of papers turned in from the departing 3pm shift (we do 2hr volunteer shifts) when he walked back in. It was sometime shortly after the end of that meeting; Zach had returned but not Nick. Zach had a couple other party people from elsewhere in the state with him, so Bowzer focused on the new faces while the rest of us worked the shift change. He knew they were staff as opposed to interns. Again, there seemed to be that increasing awkwardness after Bowzer had hung around a certain time. The other two staffers left, possibly/probably prematurely. This time, I was wondering whether we could maybe get Bowzer on some phone calls to keep him occupied, but he had his own plans. He had a manila envelope full of pictures of his younger self, which he was signing and giving away to people. There was even one instance in which he was uncomfortably pressuring people to take his autographed pictures. Joanie, who's one of our data-entry leads in the mornings and one of the few who's a generation older than the rest of the crew, came in with her partner Karen. They do their phone calls from home on Google and just pick up packets from the office. Karen accepted a picture; Bowzer turned to Joanie and asked if she'd like one too. She tried to politely brush it off and say she was just in with Karen. At which point Bowzer offered to make it out to both of them. Joanie took a pass, and I think Bowzer was offended.
Two seconds after Bowzer walked out of our office for the second time, Zach had his hands beside his temples: fingers in the shape of a gun on one side of his head and imitating brains being blown out of the other end. DGP said "The only reason I have any idea who that guy is is because Adam Sandler mentioned him in a song and I had to look him up." Zach said "Yeah, me too."
I did some research when I got home, because I have a feeling we may not have seen the last of Bowzer. Bowzer is 64 and attended Juilliard. Sha Na Na played Woodstock right before Jimi Hendrix, but Bowzer joined the band a year or two later. They toured with the Grateful Dead and Bruce Springsteen at various points. They had a TV show in the late 70s/early 80s and appeared in the film Grease. I found it particularly interesting that he had done voice work on Animaniacs. Intriguing to me as well is what he's done in the political sphere. I know he was also involved in this year's NY-26 special election to replace the Craigslist Congressman, a race we had been following in the office. He also played a role in the enactment of the Truth In Music Act, which restricts performers from continuing to use a band's name once all founding members have left. I remember reading about that when it passed, but didn't have any idea who any of the older musicians mentioned in the article were at the time. That's the kind of stuff I'd wish I'd known before Bowzer came walking through our door. I think it would have perhaps made for easier conversation.
I have a souvenir too... as if Bowzer's day at our office is going to be easily forgotten anytime soon.
I've got a feeling the next month is going to be longer and weirder than I had previously imagined...
Count it as hearsay, but I heard some polling information in advance of the August 9th races from someone who was at the Friday statewide staff meeting. There are six recall elections that day; these are the races where incumbent Republican senators are defending their seats.
Here's what I heard: Polls in two of these races are essentially tied. Polls in the other four races give the Democratic candidate a lead; three of them lead within the margin of error and one leads the incumbent by double digits. (Quick recap: 6 Republican & 2 Democratic senators have yet to face recall. Outcomes range from Dems -2 to Dems +6; Dems need +3 to flip the senate.)
This Thursday, Scott Walker will be 22 miles from where I sit as I write this. He hasn't heard the last of my vuvuzela.
I had a conversation with an old activist friend (a fellow Wisconsinite whom I met in Iowa working on an 08 campaign) which sounds like it might just maybe wind up being a job offer once the recalls are over. Way too early to know anything, let alone have anything to share. But curious nonetheless.
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 25, 2011 13:49:34 GMT -5
mr forward said As for your comment about what's best for the average Wisconsin union worker: I think they know better than you or I do what's in their best interests, and I do believe they've made up their own minds on the issue... and they're overwhelmingly in opposition to Scott Walker.
Weird. qaccording to you the gov't knows what's best when it comes to healthcare? I always suggested that the DR and the patient know whats best for them YET somehow liberals support obamacare. The wisconsin VOTERS knew what was best for them when they voted walker and many GOP members into office. I guess now the labor unions know whats best for the wisconsin voter
So when did the people start to know what's best for them??
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 25, 2011 13:52:43 GMT -5
It was nothing more than a partisan stunt, and all the state GOP wanted - and got - out of it was an extra month to campaign. The cost to the taxpayer for this is in the $425-450K range. Our recall process would have been a month shorter and a half million cheaper if not for this underhanded tactic. Tell me, do you approve or disapprove of what they did here?
I approve. I love the context of the argument. This whole recall thing would be much easier for us if the GOP just rolled over and did little to stand up to the greedy labor unions. How about the people of the state of WI already spoke during the election. If the dems would just roll over and not try to over throw the will of the residents we could have moved on already and saved a ton of money for the state.. Do you agree that the dems should have just accepted the will of the people in the last elections?? Do you support this tactic of driving up costs for election that was already decided?
It was nothing more than a partisan stunt, and all the state GOP wanted - and got - out of it was an extra month to campaign. The cost to the taxpayer for this is in the $425-450K range. Our recall process would have been a month shorter and a half million cheaper if not for this underhanded tactic. Tell me, do you approve or disapprove of what they did here?
I approve. I love the context of the argument. This whole recall thing would be much easier for us if the GOP just rolled over and did little to stand up to the greedy labor unions. How about the people of the state of WI already spoke during the election. If the dems would just roll over and not try to over throw the will of the residents we could have moved on already and saved a ton of money for the state.. Do you agree that the dems should have just accepted the will of the people in the last elections?? Do you support this tactic of driving up costs for election that was already decided?
A recall wouldn't have been possible if the recall petition wasn't signed by the people. Are they Democrats jumping on this, of course, but so would the Republicans if they were in the position. It's all part of the political game. Doesn't take away from the fact, this whole recall started because citizens wanted a voice in the democratic process. It certainly has more integrity than politicians becoming a campaign finance whore.
It was nothing more than a partisan stunt, and all the state GOP wanted - and got - out of it was an extra month to campaign. The cost to the taxpayer for this is in the $425-450K range. Our recall process would have been a month shorter and a half million cheaper if not for this underhanded tactic. Tell me, do you approve or disapprove of what they did here? (Formatting what I had previously said which was not properly quoted; yeah, that's right... doing the work of a disagreeing freeloader who won't bother learning to use this forum properly to participate in its discussions.)
I approve. I love the context of the argument. This whole recall thing would be much easier for us if the GOP just rolled over and did little to stand up to the greedy labor unions. How about the people of the state of WI already spoke during the election. If the dems would just roll over and not try to over throw the will of the residents we could have moved on already and saved a ton of money for the state.. Do you agree that the dems should have just accepted the will of the people in the last elections?? Do you support this tactic of driving up costs for election that was already decided?
You approve of unnecessarily spending that much money? Please, tell me how you reconcile this with your previous assertion that "Wisconsin is broke." I happen to disagree with that statement myself; Scott Walker and his cronies somehow found a way to grant an extra $200M in tax breaks for the wealthy/corporations before he even introduced the budget repair bill in February. You are confusing last November's regular elections with this year's recall elections. A proper understanding of the recall process in this state easily differentiates between last November's elections and the recall elections underway. An elected official cannot be recalled until after having served one full year of their term. Anyone elected in November 2010 is currently ineligible for recall. (Trust me, the opposition is ready & waiting and would sign those papers this very instant if we had the chance.) State senators facing recall do so because they had already been in office as of last November's elections. As such, I question your characterization that our recall elections are simply an extension of November 2010. They are not.
We are recalling them because they are an ally of the governor who won the last election, this is true. The people of Wisconsin heard what Scott Walker said during the campaign. We have also seen how governing Scott Walker is far more extremist than campaigning Scott Walker. Many of us disapproved of the budget repair bill, and we filled the streets and the capitol petitioning for redress of grievances. We had citizens testifying against this bill, literally, for days straight... and only when the Republicans in charge of the committee hearing closed it down before everyone who wished to speak could do so did our fourteen Democrats leave the state. We all heard the "David Koch" phone call, in which much corruption was brought to light: we heard him talk about planting "troublemakers" in the peaceful protest crowds, promising to exchange certain actions for campaign money, boasting about the baseball bat in his office for negotiating with Democrats. We have seen him claim that he was acting on campaign promises he never made. He had publicly claimed he campaigned on restricting collective bargaining rights - until he was testifying before Congress having sworn under penalty of perjury to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help him God. Under those circumstances, he did admit that he did not campaign on that issue, that Wisconsin is not broke, and when asked how much money his collective bargaining provision saved the state responded "It doesn't save any." Funny how something that had zero fiscal effect made it into a budget...
The people of Wisconsin have seen Scott Walker in action, and the people of Wisconsin by and large do not approve. We are exercising our rights, guaranteed by the state constitution, to hold our politicians accountable. 78% of Wisconsinites polled support the recall provision in the state constitution. Seeing as any overriding constitutional amendment would require passing successive legislatures (making all of its supporters susceptible to recall during such process) followed by a vote of the people, I think it is safe to say that our recall statutes will survive and those opposed to it will find their opposition to be the death knell of their career. I have said before, and suspect you do not agree, that democracy does not begin and end on election day.
You claim that Republicans would "roll over" had they not ran fake Democrats in the Democratic primaries. Not so. The six incumbent Republicans are guaranteed a spot on the recall ballot. They will get their chance to face the electorate - the voice of the people would have been by no means denied had there not been fake Democratic primaries. As such, the unnecessary primaries were nothing more than a political stunt pulled at taxpayer expense.
For you to suggest that Walker opponents in this state should not exercise their constitutional right to request new elections, I think, runs contrary to some foundational aspects of a democratic society.
The November 2010 elections expressed the will of the people. The current recall elections will express the will of the people. Politicians are not rolling over. They are running scared. We are not rolling over. We are standing up. I am by no means shying away from this fight. I welcome it.
First they ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, Then you win. - Mohandas K. Gandhi
I have some questions for Chicagorooer, and I would appreciate answers.
I looked up your last fifty posts. Here's the breakdown, by thread title: "Scott Walker is GOING DOWN!" 25 (All in the past month, after a notable absence.) "NIE (Warning: more politics)" 14 (in 2007.) "SiCKO" 11 (in 2007.)
Did you ever come here to discuss Bonnaroo?
How many Bonnaroos have you attended?
When was the last time you attended Bonnaroo?
What are some of your favorite Bonnaroo sets you've seen?
When was the last time you attended any festival outside the state of Illinois?
Why did you have a four year absence from Inforoo?
What brought you back to Inforoo?
What line of work are you in that permits to you post here in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday during normal business hours?
Please understand that I've been around here since December 2007, six months after your self-imposed exile began, and I'm trying to get to know this user who came out of nowhere to troll my thread despite showing no interest whatsoever in the music festival which brings us all here...
I have some questions for Chicagorooer, and I would appreciate answers.
Please understand that I've been around here since December 2007, six months after your self-imposed exile began, and I'm trying to get to know this user who came out of nowhere to TROLL my thread despite showing no interest whatsoever in the music festival which brings us all here...
My bold on TROLL. Hate to think it and have No evidence of such.. Cant help but question if this is a regular poster that disagrees with your politics, does not have the kahunas to post under the usual login, and is resurrecting a dup/proxy account.
One monday bevy short of being ballsy enough to tear into a politcal tirade, one monday bevy enough to know better.
I have some questions for Chicagorooer, and I would appreciate answers.
I looked up your last fifty posts. Here's the breakdown, by thread title: "Scott Walker is GOING DOWN!" 25 (All in the past month, after a notable absence.) "NIE (Warning: more politics)" 14 (in 2007.) "SiCKO" 11 (in 2007.)
Did you ever come here to discuss Bonnaroo? Yes long before you even knew what bonnaroo or a festival was..
How many Bonnaroos have you attended? 9
When was the last time you attended Bonnaroo? 2011
What are some of your favorite Bonnaroo sets you've seen? The boss, Phish, MMJ back in 04, UM in 04, Galactic latnight 05, STS9 latenight 06, tom petty 06, UM/disco biscuits latenight 06, SCI, STS9 07, metallic and chromoe in 08, black angels, pretty lights, MMJ, primus, OCMS, geensky , black keys 2011
When was the last time you attended any festival outside the state of Illinois? jamcruise 2010, bonnaroo 2011, this weekend NLQP in ohio, summerdance nlqp
Why did you have a four year absence from Inforoo? why do dogs bark why do birds scream
What brought you back to Inforoo? the constant rants you went on. That clearly does nothing more then take up space as the post is nothing more than I love unions I will dial my ass off for unions and I dont care about anything else as long as the GOP is out...same thinking as anybody but BUSH at all costs ..Since this is suppose to be an openminded community u would think that several others would have chimed in.. But that's typical for this board. The illusion that they are open minded but have a competing thought and be label stupid, dumb, can't spell...instant discredit campaign...Sound familiar??? Unions do this all the time to try and keep their power base and restrict open competion for skilled workers. WHY ZDO I HAVE TO JOIN THE UNION IF I AM AN AUTO WORKER ect..it's either jpin the union or don't work ..hmmm
What line of work are you in that permits to you post here in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday during normal business hours? My line of work is meaningless. I clearly have freedom and flexibilty and certainly would never work in a postition that watched me like a hawk to see my internet usage. What does it matter to you? are you suggesting you can't find the internet between business hours???
the constant rants you went on. That clearly does nothing more then take up space as the post is nothing more than I love unions I will dial my ass off for unions and I dont care about anything else as long as the GOP is out...same thinking as anybody but BUSH at all costs ..Since this is suppose to be an openminded community u would think that several others would have chimed in.. But that's typical for this board. The illusion that they are open minded but have a competing thought and be label stupid, dumb, can't spell...instant discredit campaign...Sound familiar??? Unions do this all the time to try and keep their power base and restrict open competion for skilled workers. WHY ZDO I HAVE TO JOIN THE UNION IF I AM AN AUTO WORKER ect..it's either jpin the union or don't work ..hmmm
chicagorooer. this is why you are a douchebag
Edit: I'm sure it's not the only reason but it's my most compelling reason so far. You ranted while Mr. Forward has explained his position with rationality. You knee-jerk your reaction emotionally.
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 27, 2011 13:31:49 GMT -5
@ quacker HUH??? I stated my opinion and stance several times over...what makes u think this above post was my first attempt??
This post is a direct response to Forwards direect questions that have nothing to do with this thread...Forward instead of debating the points at hand is shifting to the discredit campaign....He wants to know me personally so he can try and discredit my ideas. Not on the merits but who I am
Funny forward doesnt try this same tactic with the Union he so blindly solicits for
The people crying the most these days are the "old money" the OLD powerbase...things are changing and they are screaming to stay relevant
Really we need to wipe the slate clean and get rid of ALL dems and republicans and elect people that are not bought off
Did you ever come here to discuss Bonnaroo? Yes long before you even knew what bonnaroo or a festival was..
How many Bonnaroos have you attended? 9
I'll have you know I had to pass on an invitation to the inaugural Bonnaroo, simply because I was invited just a week beforehand without enough advance notice to arrange the time off from work. So yeah, I knew what Bonnaroo was before it ever even happened... and having gone every year since 2003, attending nine myself, I definitely knew what it was before you arrived at Inforoo in 2007. It might help to make sure you're correct before you talk down to me about something.
What are some of your favorite Bonnaroo sets you've seen? The boss, Phish, MMJ back in 04, UM in 04, Galactic latnight 05, STS9 latenight 06, tom petty 06, UM/disco biscuits latenight 06, SCI, STS9 07, metallic and chromoe in 08, black angels, pretty lights, MMJ, primus, OCMS, geensky , black keys 2011
You definitely went every one of the four years during your prolonged absence from here, it seems. There was a lot of great stuff that went on, that for whatever reason you didn't care to talk about...
What brought you back to Inforoo? the constant rants you went on.
This is obviously not a proper answer. You would not have seen this thread had you not returned to Inforoo for other purposes. What brought you back to Inforoo?
That clearly does nothing more then take up space as the post is nothing more than I love unions I will dial my ass off for unions and I dont care about anything else as long as the GOP is out...same thinking as anybody but BUSH at all costs..Since this is suppose to be an openminded community u would think that several others would have chimed in.. But that's typical for this board.
Actually, I care about better governance coming from both sides of the aisle. Again, I remind you that you are trying to pigeonhole me into something less than I am and what I am working for. I've given you at least a dozen other reasons in this thread why I oppose the Walker administration. You've just chosen to ignore them. My stance has received opposition since page one of this thread, which you also seem to have chosen to ignore. Another unanswered question I'd like to hear you answer: did you or did you not support George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004?
The illusion that they are open minded but have a competing thought and be label stupid, dumb, can't spell...instant discredit campaign...Sound familiar??? Unions do this all the time to try and keep their power base and restrict open competion for skilled workers. WHY ZDO I HAVE TO JOIN THE UNION IF I AM AN AUTO WORKER ect..it's either jpin the union or don't work ..hmmm
I should hope you see the connection between proper spelling and grammar and a desire for skilled workers. I told you earlier that I bit my tongue about your spelling/grammar... until you misspelled the word "Wisconsin." You lashed back accusing me of being an elitist with a college degree. I've got news for you, buddy... I didn't learn how to spell the name of my state in college. I learned that in elementary school. Apparently you didn't. I don't expect everyone to come at me from a college-educated level, though I do appreciate it if supposedly-adult discourse occurs at the level of a high school graduate. You did graduate high school, correct?
What line of work are you in that permits to you post here in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday during normal business hours? My line of work is meaningless.
In a discussion involving labor issues - and you seem to place a greater emphasis on the labor issues side of this than I do - I believe employment is relevant. Since the majority of union employees work during the day shift, I think when you work is also relevant here.
@ quacker HUH??? I stated my opinion and stance several times over...what makes u think this above post was my first attempt??
This post is a direct response to Forwards direect questions that have nothing to do with this thread...Forward instead of debating the points at hand is shifting to the discredit campaign....He wants to know me personally so he can try and discredit my ideas. Not on the merits but who I am
I am asking you about past Bonnaroos and why you were gone for so long. Please explain to me exactly what this has to do with the formation of your political beliefs. You generally ignore my questions when I ask about your prior political positions, for the record.
Funny forward doesnt try this same tactic with the Union he so blindly solicits for
Again, if you had paid proper attention to this thread, you would know that the collective bargaining issue is but a small part of why I oppose this administration. I'm well aware of the fact that you refuse to discuss this in terms of the myriad other reasons I oppose the Walker administration.
The people crying the most these days are the "old money" the OLD powerbase...things are changing and they are screaming to stay relevant
Really we need to wipe the slate clean and get rid of ALL dems and republicans and elect people that are not bought off
You are right here, but we agree upon this for entirely different reasons. I have yet to see you admit that anything I've said in this thread constitutes a valid point. That is not how civilized debate takes place.
I went to see Ted Leo & the Pharmacists in Milwaukee last night. I met up with an old friend from our days campaigning in Iowa afterwards, and we had a couple beers and waxed political. He also happens to be the guy who was planting the seeds of thought about that job I mentioned earlier. I hadn't seen him in 3 1/2 years. Last time our paths crossed, we were waiting outside the Kohl Center (where Badger basketball and hockey is played) in Madison for Barack Obama, who was at the time seeking the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, to speak.
One thing came up in our conversation which I don't think I have yet mentioned here. I think it's somewhat relevant to the discussion. This picture was taken in late January of this year, between the NFC Championship game (in which the Green Bay Packers defeated Obama's hometown favorites Da Bears) and the Super Bowl. President Obama gave a speech in Wisconsin during that time period. Gov. Walker is presenting President Obama with an autographed Charles Woodson jersey. Among the phrases written on the jersey include "See you at the White House" and "Go Packers."
A lot of the progressive community in this state felt more anguish over losing Russ Feingold from the U.S. Senate than in losing the gubernatorial race. I was among them. I was at least willing to give the newly elected the benefit of the doubt, as it's only fair to give someone a chance before passing judgment. I saw this picture in the newspaper and thought to myself "Hey, this guy might not be so bad after all..." I gave Walker the benefit of the doubt. It didn't take him long to squander it immensely.
About a week into the protests, it was Woodson who stood up and issued a statement in favor of union employees and their collective bargaining rights. Packers union representative Aaron Rodgers disappointingly remained silent.
I, of course, wore the Woodson jersey to the rallies while the Rodgers one stayed home - and got along with the Viking just fine, to boot.
Now that the NFL lockout has ended, the Packers are trying to schedule an August visit to the White House... where Charles Woodson will indeed see Barack Obama.
Sign above the bar where we hold our monthly "official" Democracy Addicts meetup:
It's late and another big day ahead, gonna try to keep this short despite my tendency to rant.
I got my protest on today. Scott Walker made an appearance at a private fundraiser. It had been a while since I've gotten to just plain protest in the midst of working on all these recalls, and it felt good. I'd like to get into this more in-depth sometime soon, but tomorrow is a double-duty day and there is more worth getting into if I'm doing a drive-by posting.
Updates:
Sen. Sheila Harsdorf refuses to meet her Democratic challenger Shelly Moore in a head-to-head debate. This contest is in Senate District 10, where the GOP put a lot of effort into an attempt to knock Moore out during the primary. She beat the fake Democrat, 55-44. (I know that doesn't quite add up; over one percent of the votes in that election were for write-in candidates for some reason.)
There was an incident Monday at the capitol. A woman (who owns a store which sells them) was bringing a heart balloon in to give to a state legislator. A Department of Administration employee pulled out a knife, stabbed the balloon, and shoved the woman through a bathroom door. He cut his hand in the process, leaving a trail of blood through the capitol as he fled. As I understand it, the employee/suspect was placed on administrative leave immediately following the incident, charges were filed, and was officially arrested today. This explains the heart balloons in the photo above somewhat.
Every election has what is called an October Surprise. Though the timing of these recalls isn't on a normal schedule, we do indeed have a scandal brewing in the closing month before the election. If this scandal proves true, at which point I feel it is too early to confirm, it should pretty much guarantee that a third incumbent Republican state senator loses his seat. That three is important - it is the number we need to flip the senate. More on that as it develops.
Two of the high school interns in the office both broke the existing single-day call record of 318, achieved by one of the volunteers during our GOTV week. First Madelyn broke it with 402 calls, then Sean stayed late to make it to 403. Eight hundred calls between the two of them. My hat cheesehead is off to them.
Walker made an appearance at Opportunities Inc. They built an expansion which was opening and were celebrating a 45th anniversary. Opportunities employs mentally handicapped individuals, and itself doesn't seem to be doing wrong as far as I can tell. It is their temp agency arm, Diversified Personnel Services, which seems to be drawing ire of the locals. Of course, Walker making a public appearance in itself is a cause for protest. He's the most polarizing governor in the nation. The company invited Walker to speak, and the people showed up to speak as well.
What stirred the pot about DPS was a letter from a man named Robert, who's in his 60s and a shift supervisor (last time I checked) for the nondisabled workers in that branch of the business. He wrote a letter to the editor in that local paper (which can be seen by reading through here) pointing out the permanent temp status, perennially low wages with no benefits, and working conditions experienced by employees in the less visible branch of the company. One particular thing he pointed out was that, with temperatures in the 90s, roughly one hundred employees on a production floor had but one ceiling fan as their cooling.
There was a celebratory gala in the new warehouse with Walker as the keynote speaker. Police said there were close to four hundred protesters at hour peak; newspaper accounts say about three hundred people attended the ($50/person or $475/table) event. The event began at 5:30pm with Walker scheduled to speak at 7pm. The anti-Walker demonstration was underway by 4pm.
I went with Jenna, who's about twenty and I know from her protest appearances in Batman costume, and another guy Art I'd just met in person - though I'm familiar with his "Shit Scott Walker is Doing to My State" Facebook page. We came prepared from Madison. Forward cheesehead. Batman costume. Heart balloons. Vuvuzelas. Drum. Megaphone. Oh, and this banner - lent to us by the store owner whose heart balloon was stabbed in the capitol: Holding it in the photo are Drake and Marina. I started out holding it with Art, who was more interested in going around documenting things. I barely even got to start folding it up to find Batman, who had been drumming elsewhere, when those two came up and offered to help hold it. It wasn't too long before a fourth person joined us, a man who had a handful of the pink "Walker: Your Pink Slip is Coming" posters. He had them reserved for people who'd been pink-slipped by DPS he saw walking around, and he got rid of all the ones he showed up with standing next to me. He himself had been fired from the place earlier this year, and it didn't seem as though he was alone in that. (Yet, they're expanding?)
The group was split between the nearest road and the back entrance through rush hour. We knew Walker wouldn't use the front door. I was on the street end of things; Batman was near the back entrance (Opportunities Inc. had a landfill in its backyard) and Art was filming in various places. There were definitely more expressions of support for us from passing motorists than there were expressions of opposition. I'm surprised how many people down in that small city knew the DemocraBeep.
I feel a side tangent about the DemocraBeep is in order. I don't think it's come up yet in this thread.
(Obviously not Fort Atkinson with the capitol in the background.) It's the car horn expression of that familiar protest call-and-response "Tell me what democracy looks like!"/"This is what democracy looks like!" Bonus video of the DemocraBeep in full effect a block from the capitol in March. Believe me when I tell you that one cheesehead with a vuvuzela can really get an intersection going. People see bumpers full of anti-Walker bumper stickers and democrabeep each other at stoplights. People give our office a half-mile from the capitol the DemocraBeep while driving past. Democracy Addicts leaving our meetups give the DemocraBeep as they drive past on their departure. It's by no means a secret handshake or speaking in code. It's just one of those things that's become a part of life this year.
Anyway, back to the story. Rush hour came and went. Last time I protested in a smaller city, my hometown, I got the finger from a little old lady. (Part of me LOVES that.) Nothing that hostile here. The only sign of Walker support I saw was an older woman, riding in the passenger seat, turning her head slightly away and shielding her side view with her hand so she didn't have to look at us. They were well-dressed, and quite possibly there for the event. Whether they were or not, that reaction spoke volumes.
Art found me and my newfound banner-holding friends. He told me that there was a portable air-conditioning unit on a flatbed truck spotted hooked up to the new warehouse... of the company which gave its one hundred employees one fan. He had been off documenting that. The majority of the crowd had now made its way to the back, awaiting Walker's arrival, though a small presence remained on the street.
Robert, the DPS employee who'd written the letter to the local paper, was back there. He had several signs affixed to one big stick, a hat that said "Vietnam Veteran" and a tattoo on his forearm with a crucifix and the phrase "Jesus is Lord."
Police had been escorting attendees across the street between stretches of private property. Parking was across the street at the original facility for an event at the expansion warehouse. They started trickling in at the 5:30 start time, picking up around 6pm. I personally didn't engage in it, but there was shouting and vuvuzela-blowing at those entering the event. I was fine to just hold that big beautiful "Recall Walker" banner and talk with my fellow demonstrators. At one point, some woman walked up to me and said "Hi, I follow you on Twitter" and moved along. I tried to ask what her handle was, but she either didn't hear or didn't respond. She later sent me that picture of me holding the heart balloons. I wish she'd have answered; I'm a fan of her stuff and would have loved to talk.
Wisconsin has a smoking ban. As such, gala attendees had to step outside to smoke. We knew the law on our side of the line. Someone reminded one of the police officers that, per the smoking ban law, there is no smoking within 25 feet to the entrance to such a building. The police made sure they moved away. Straight out the door, 25 feet was by the line of protesters. Out the door to the left, 25 feet was still across from the line of protesters. These people in their fancy suits and dresses had to go out the door and to the right; they had to go around the corner alongside the dump to get their nicotine fix. A small victory. We could smoke just fine where we were at.
Seven o'clock came with no Walker arrival. Drake & Marina gave up not long after, leaving me to roll up the sign and move further back. I stumbled across Batman talking with a couple fellow Democracy Addicts, Kati and Karen. I'd known Kati as a DA regular, but not Karen. We briefly crossed paths at one of our unofficial DA meetings three weeks ago, mainly on opposite ends of a picnic table, and at least recognized each other though we didn't know our mutual Twitter followership. This time I had the Forward cheesehead on. I saw the light bulb go off over her head when she saw it, and she said "Oh! I didn't know that was you!" Kati's a teacher whose hometown is Fort Atkinson, and tipped us off to the event & Robert's letter through our closed Facebook group. Karen joined me in banner-holding duties while we awaited Walker's arrival. At one point, I gave one of the three heart balloons we'd tied to the banner to a girl aged four or five who was there with her mother and it felt good.
7:30 passed. Walker was a half hour late. A few minutes later, a dark SUV came through the main entrance. A few people from the street came following it towards the back entrance. There was one guy in front, one guy in back. They both got out of the vehicle. Out of the front seat came the driver. Out of the back seat came... a Scott Walker decoy! I'm still kicking myself for not putting down the banner to take a picture of that.
That meant the real deal wasn't far behind. That arrival came at 7:37. That vehicle was also a dark SUV, speeding through the neighborhood at 40-50mph. The SUV came along the back road along the garbage dump behind Opportunities. It took a 90-degree turn upwards of 30mph. I heard the local police warned his driver to be more cautious on their way out. A lot of noise was made as the Walker SUV cruised around to the one corner of the facility not accessible by public property.
Got split up for a bit. Karen found me again and asked if I knew where they were going. I mentioned that everyone entering the building was heading in the direction of the street. People had moved over to that side of the building to make noise. Karen, who seems to be an upright citizen - I could imagine her being a teacher or librarian or something, but I don't know for sure - crossed the line separating private and public property. She went up to the building and got a few seconds of good pounding on the wall and walked closer to the street behind a group of departing protesters. She didn't notice, but an officer was trailing and gaining on her. She was probably within ten feet of getting arrested.
But then, a woman in her 50s crossed the line to the rear of the officer and did the same thing. Given the choice between catching up with Karen & the group she was following, and turning around to single out a lone woman, the officer turned around and went to cuff the lone woman. I was later told that the woman was a teacher at one of the local schools. They cuffed her and took her away. By then, the private property was clear of anyone there opposing Walker. One man said that he wasn't going to let her be the only one going and crossed the orange tape. He, too, was cuffed and taken away. The man was taken back to the Fort Atkinson PD and released without charges; the teacher was actually arrested. By this time, things were winding down faster than they already had been. We passed on a message to Madison talk-radio host Sly from the woman whose heart balloon was stabbed, letting him know the perpetrator had been arrested. Hometown Kati remarked that this protest got especially personal, since some of the people she'd shouted "Shame!" at were family friends attending the function. Kati knew the man taken back to the station, and was off to get him.
On the way out with Batman & Art, we crossed paths with people leaving the Walker event. Art asked one older couple what they thought of the governor's speech. No answer. He rephrased it, asking what Walker had said. No answer. He was asking in a polite and civil manner and everything. Not that it mattered to them. I wouldn't be surprised if she had been the same woman who shielded her eyes from the mere sight of us earlier in the afternoon. Nor would I be surprised to find that mindset to be prevalent amongst Walker supporters in general.
It would have been nice to have at least gotten a "Let them eat cake" out of her.
I was never aware of the practice until I saw it happen firsthand.
It makes sense to me, as far as security purposes go. He is the most polarizing and among the least popular governors in the nation. (Shout-out to Florida's Rick Scott and Ohio's John Kasich for being such exemplars of assholery that they squeaked past him on the latter ranking.)
There's a number of recurring things that pop up in this thread which ought to be regular features along with "Updates." One of those features would have to be the periodic video of Scott Walker being protested wherever he goes.
Because it happens pretty much every single time he makes an announced appearance. He can't go fishing... He can't have a garden party... He can't open a state facility... He can't open a business facility... He can't keynote a business fundraiser.... He can't keynote a political fundraiser... He can't speak at the Special Olympics... He can't go to New York City... He can't go to Washington, D.C.... He can't dine in restaurants near the capitol... He can't even be in his own office... ...without constant opposition.
That kind of security is necessary.
The cynic in me wants to weigh in a bit here. During the transition to his administration, rather than continuing to use the existing luxury sedan reserved for transporting the governor, the incoming Walker administration replaced those with a couple of Escalades. Enhanced with special windows and other security extras, and the capacity to fit the entire family plus a security detail. It's almost like he knew feces were going to meet the fan... OK, enough cynic talk.
But yes, that kind of security detail is necessary for someone in his position. I would not be surprised to learn Scott Walker has already received them. I know that during the three weeks they were in Illinois, the Wisconsin 14 were discovered at a hotel whose front desk subsequently received death threat calls. I know it probably doesn't end there as far as the politicians go. I've talked about Joanne before, the woman from Oshkosh I met down at Walkerville in June. She's an unemployed riot grrrl with a Ph.D busting her ass off in her recall district, canvassing in her roller skates (and sometimes crab umbrella) on a daily basis. She probably does fifty doors a day. We call her a DemocStar because that's what she quacking is. Even she's had a death threat.
So I don't think it's too much a stretch to imagine that the governor has received them, even though most if not all of the violent incidents I've read about in the course of this were committed against Walker opponents.
Anger can make people do stupid things. Regardless of political affiliation.
The La Crosse office of We Are Wisconsin was destroyed in a fire yesterday. There is no assessment of the cause of the fire just yet.
I doubt I'll have a 400+ phone call day, but as of Friday I do hold a record around the office: longest phone call. We were calling around on a volunteer prospect list, and I stumbled upon Glenn. I was on the phone trying to get him involved in our Get Out the Vote operation for 45 minutes, specifically for the kickoff potluck/meeting this Sunday. He's a Vietnam vet in his 60s, got involved with politics and organizing upon his return, had a lot of interesting stories about his past activism - some of them quite interesting - but hadn't done a campaign since Russ Feingold's initial run and didn't think people would listen to a "washed-up old longhair" such as himself. I think he could rock it on phone banking if he weren't in such a mopey mood about whether his continued political engagement would make any difference. I couldn't get him to commit to the specific event to which we were inviting him because he'll be watching his grandkids, and I'm working myself, but if I find out he didn't attend he'll be hearing from me again personally. It won't be hard - we had each other's numbers come the end of that call.
Our Democratic Party of Wisconsin office is coordinating for with Organizing for America (a political organizing project of the Democratic National Committee established after Obama's election) for our big August 9th GOTV effort. We have reserved a larger location for the big push which should accommodate about eighty callers at once. To put that in perspective, our office usually only has about twenty-five phones on hand for volunteer use.
The countdown is within double-digit range: only 95 days until petitions to recall Scott Walker himself may begin to be circulated.
I wasn't in the office Saturday, but Bowzer from Sha Na Na paid another visit.
Americans for Prosperity is mailing misleading absentee ballot requests to Democratic-leaning/identified voters in districts with August 9th recalls. I use the word "misleading" because these are being mailed to voters in districts with August 9th elections, while these forms tell people their deadline for mailing them is August 11th. Not to mention that these forms go to a P.O. Box in Madison, rather than the various municipal clerks who are the only ones allowed to approve and process absentee ballots. I don't see how AFP can be given the benefit of the doubt here. These districts are hundreds of miles from where the actual August 16th elections will take place, and even if they are aiming for August 16th their deadline is too close to process a request and have an actual absentee ballot received by a clerk. This is blatant voter fraud, but given the way this state has been run this year I'm not going to hold my breath hoping for an investigation. I don't trust the federal government to step in and do a proper investigation either, considering there was enough evidence to warrant an investigation in Waukesha County during April's Supreme Court election and no action was taken.
Two events I can't help but feel are partially inspired by events in Madison earlier this year, that I would like to see have massive attendance: Occupy Wall Street is fairly self-explanatory, taking place in New York City on September 17th. October 2011 seeks to commemorate the 10th anniversary of the invasion of Afghanistan and Bush tax cuts with a Tahrir-style protest/occupation in Freedom Plaza.
While I'm at it, a shout-out to two organizations sympathetic to my general cause: U.S. Uncut describes themselves as "a grassroots movement taking direct action against corporate tax cheats and unnecessary and unfair public service cuts across the U.S. Washington's proposed budget for the coming year sends a clear message: The wrath of budget cuts will fall upon the shoulders of hard-working Americans. That's unacceptable." U.S. Day of Rage seeks to replicate the Day of Rage demonstration which ultimately brought down the Mubarak regime in Egypt.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 1, 2011 14:22:07 GMT -5
Nice pics....Funny one of the first things this whole "recall scott walker" campaign remindes me of is the anti-war protestors against GWB..
Where have all the anti war people gone?? Iraq, Afgan, Libya, pakistan ect..we still have troops and are at war. Yet very few protests. No concerts stating get out of Iraq. No celebrities to trash obama. It's very silent these days on the war front.
WHY is that? I guess the powers to be (liberals) really didn't care about the soldiers or war. They made it a cause to rally against to help discredit Bush so democrats could win the 2008 election
Now with scott walker I see the same mentality. Doesn't matter if what I am doing I really believe in nor would I speak out if it was a democrat that was breaking up unions. Instead I rally against walker simply b/c he is part of the GOP. Instead of trying to focus on the topics let's make this about class warfare. Same tactics used against Bush to try and discredit him. Instead of class warfare liberals stated the war is really about oil and GWB paying off the oil tycoons. Yet the war continues and oil tycoons are still seeing benefits right?? I guess Obama is preventing this oil money from going to the evil oil men unlike BUSH??? NOPE he sure isn't
I see many similarities between the anti-war protestors (now all but gone HMMM) and this scott walker is going down
Just an observation from an outsider. The sudden dissapearance of ALL the anti war people really make it hard for serious people to take this scott walker thing with credibility. Do these protestors care about Wisconsin or are they simply "cheesed" off b/c the liberals got killed in the last election
If the anti war protestors or absence of them is a clue..we have our answer
Nice pics....Funny one of the first things this whole "recall scott walker" campaign remindes me of is the anti-war protestors against GWB..
Where have all the anti war people gone?? Iraq, Afgan, Libya, pakistan ect..we still have troops and are at war. Yet very few protests. No concerts stating get out of Iraq. No celebrities to trash obama. It's very silent these days on the war front.
WHY is that? I guess the powers to be (liberals) really didn't care about the soldiers or war. They made it a cause to rally against to help discredit Bush so democrats could win the 2008 election
Now with scott walker I see the same mentality. Doesn't matter if what I am doing I really believe in nor would I speak out if it was a democrat that was breaking up unions. Instead I rally against walker simply b/c he is part of the GOP. Instead of trying to focus on the topics let's make this about class warfare. Same tactics used against Bush to try and discredit him. Instead of class warfare liberals stated the war is really about oil and GWB paying off the oil tycoons. Yet the war continues and oil tycoons are still seeing benefits right?? I guess Obama is preventing this oil money from going to the evil oil men unlike BUSH??? NOPE he sure isn't
I see many similarities between the anti-war protestors (now all but gone HMMM) and this scott walker is going down
Just an observation from an outsider. The sudden dissapearance of ALL the anti war people really make it hard for serious people to take this scott walker thing with credibility. Do these protestors care about Wisconsin or are they simply "cheesed" off b/c the liberals got killed in the last election
If the anti war protestors or absence of them is a clue..we have our answer
First off because maybe we understand the common sense dictum that you can not unilaterally pull out of a situation like the ones the Republicans put the country in, is the largest reason there are no protests. Especially since we are working on how to leave, not how to stay and build a little texas. Libya and Pakistan as far as I know are not currently undergoing any ground or manned air missions, so I am pretty ambivalent on that myself.
So lets answer your question with a question shall we? Where were all the tea partiers while the Republicans were running up these huge deficits? I find it hard to take them seriously about fiscal responsibility when they were never interested in it before Obama got elected.
Of course maybe the answer is that the anti war protests, and Scott Walker recall are about stupid crap the other party did, the tea baggers are more concerned with stuff there own side mainly brought down on their heads.
Back in fall of 2007, there was a budget stalemate in Wisconsin. The legislature did not draft a budget by their deadline. The other forty-nine states had already passed their budgets. When the state exceeded its deadline, a friend of mine (he runs one of the bigger local websites/blogs) put out a call for people to come out and protest this fact. I was amongst a group of people numbering in the single digits. I made a couple signs, one saying "We Want A Budget!" and the other "Honk If You Like Budgets." It was the couple handfuls of us out there on the same capitol square that drew 100K+ this winter. At the time, Wisconsin had a Democratic governor and Democrats controlled both houses of the state legislature.
Don't tell me my motivation is partisan. My motivation is better government.
The same goes for Iraq. I was all in favor of going into Afghanistan but opposed the invasion of Iraq, so it's not as if I have a partisan knee-jerk response to war in general. I did not oppose the invasion of Iraq because I was on the left - I opposed the invasion of Iraq because it was bad policy made under questionable justifications, not to mention that it wasn't Iraq who attacked us. I was against that war from the start, yes, but once there I was all in favor of doing it responsibly. I was against cut & run and in favor of the surge. Yeah, I protested that war. I said then it was a bad idea, and I say now that it was a bad idea. It just happened to be that I was among the initial 8-10% minority in opposition, a stance which I think we can all agree gained plenty more support and legitimacy since the onset of that war. You say that the anti-war people disappeared. They didn't. That energy remained. The opposition just had less of a need to remain a vocal minority when they, you know, became the majority. Which is kind of the same thing that's happened here with Scott Walker.
I would like to add that George W. Bush did not need "liberal tactics" to discredit him. He did a plenty fine job of doing that himself. Which, again, is kind of the same thing that's happened here with Scott Walker.
The difference between opposing the Iraq invasion and opposing Scott Walker - aside from the fact that Walker protests in Madison equaled the Madison Iraq protests by the third day and came to dwarf them - is that a swift withdrawal from Iraq would have been irresponsible and made the situation worse, whereas a swift removal of Scott Walker from office will not.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 2, 2011 16:29:32 GMT -5
So lets answer your question with a question shall we? Where were all the tea partiers while the Republicans were running up these huge deficits? I find it hard to take them seriously about fiscal responsibility when they were never interested in it before Obama got elected.
This is a valid question. These same people existed in our nation for sometime now. Even when good old GWB was in office. However after Bush ran shit up and now obama took it to the next level it's gotten out of control. Tea party folks aren't just republicans what makes you think that?? It's people that want smaller gov't and less taxes. I have no idea what's so crazy about that
What's really going on is the OLD powerbase rep/democrat are very scared. Both parties are both the same. They put thier own party before the people they are suppose to represent. The tea party folks are holding both dems and republicans feet to the power. They have also shown they can and will make a difference in elections. This scares the OLD power base. Since you can't really argue against less gov't in your life and paying less taxes you can only do one thing. Discredit the entire group as fools, rednecks, uneducated, out of touch. This is a common tactic on the campaign trail and big media has jumped on board to help keep their powerbase.
This is the reality of the nation we live in. This has been going on for a long time. Speak out against the old power base and watch them come trying to knock you off and make you look like a fool. thankfully the tea party and other americans are starting to wake up to this tactic. Sure the GOP was smart and have been trying to bring them under their wings BUT then again NOT many dems out there calling for less spending and smaller gov't both HUGE TP topics
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 2, 2011 16:42:55 GMT -5
Don't tell me my motivation is partisan. My motivation is better government.
Then why do you toil for bloated Union fat cats when the state is simply trying to reduce the cost of doing business? what value does the union bring to the state? I believe the states service ect would get better and be more cost effective if the Unions stepped aside. I also believe you will get a far better employee. Why limit the people you can choose from to those who MUST join a union to be employed by the state.
I am with you and I applaude the need for better gov't just not sure how ensuring state employees are union members makes for better gov't
In regards to the war. When Bush was in office IT was everywhere on the nightly news. You couldn't blink without hearing about the wars and the protests. Since obama took office the media went silent. The protests in chicago stopped. Hell I don't even see the anti-war bumper stiickers anywhere..
Certainly this just didn't happen by chance. Afterall America is now involved in libya..invaded pakistan, still in Iraq and afgan, gitmo is not closed (what about the tortue and the humanity that Obama ran on)...Nobody is even questioning him why he hasn't closed gitmo....It's like a war ect isnn't happening..Clearly if you can;t see how the liberals along with the mainstream media played a giant roll in using the war as a political issue instead of really trying to see what is right for the nation
Obama believes the war is needed and has actually esclated the effort. I applaude him for his military actions to date. However I see the same thing with walker. liberals wanting to kick walker out to protect "worker rights" when really it has nothing to do with worker rights but simply using class war fare as a politcal tactic to discredit and win the next elections. whether the unions are damaging the state doesn't matter what matters is the next election. Same tactic the anti- war liberals used...It worked very well then so why not keep it up in wisconsin
