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The status quo is still better then Obamacare. Clearly when huge portions of folks are exempt you know their is problems.
That logic is ass-backwards and makes absolutely no sense. Obama's health care plan is far from perfect, but it still covers way more people than were covered under the old "can't afford it? Tough shit" philosophy. So covering all people is better than covering only those that can afford it, but covering only those that can afford it is better than covering most people?
Social net?? What do unions have to do with providing a social net? The gov't and states have passes hundreds of laws thay provide a social safety net. Everything from FMLA to discrimination to safe working conditions to unemployment, food stamps ect
These programs are already in place and thus I feel the unions are nothing more than a middle man in between a business that NEEDS to be profitable and workers who need to earn an honest wage.
Sure I will agree that unions had their time and place but now not so much
Well, that is where you and I differ, then. I think unions do provide a social net by protecting laborers' rights and making sure they don't get quacked over by the fatcats at the top who generally care about very little beyond the size of their bank accounts, and who will ship their jobs off to China or Mexico or wherever in a New York minute if they think it will increase their bottom line. None of the other programs you mentioned provide that type of job security.
Furthermore, unions also allow for far more effective collective bargaining, and anytime the little guy is given a stronger voice in rallying against those at the top, it makes for a much more just and democratic workplace, and that's always a good thing in my opinion. In an age when so many politicians have sold their souls to corporations in lieu of serving their constituents, unions are still absolutely necessary, particularly in the very volatile labor industries.
And I'm extremely confused as to how a person can simultaneously say 'power to the people' while rallying against organizations that protect the labor rights of the people, but alright then.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2011 2:13:07 GMT -5 by jack324 - Back to Top
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 18, 2011 12:35:51 GMT -5
I've personally been biting my tongue in regards to your spelling and grammar, but you crossed a line here as far as I'm concerned. May I ask how I am supposed to trust someone who can't spell "Wisconsin" to tell me what's best for Wisconsin?
LOL so how am I supppose to trust somebody that wears crazy looking mad hatter hats, and sleeps in a tent on the street?? Who wears a giant cheesehead hat? So based on that alone I won't take your serious...Sorry played out liberal tactic. Debate the facts anf stop trying to discredit. B/c if thats the game you play many of your pictures make you look like a crazy college kid hitting the recall train to try and land some women. Not a serious person that takes the lives of people serious enough
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 18, 2011 12:39:23 GMT -5
Well, that is where you and I differ, then. I think unions do provide a social net by protecting laborers' rights and making sure they don't get quacked over by the fatcats at the top who generally care about very little beyond the size of their bank accounts, and who will ship their jobs off to China or Mexico or wherever in a New York minute if they think it will increase their bottom line. None of the other programs you mentioned provide that type of job security.
Bingo you get it now. Unions are the reason the fat cats ARE shipping jobs overseas. They can't afford to pay low skilled workers these cadillac pensions ect. A campany at anytime can ship jobs overseas. Companies DONT' have to work with unions if they chose not to. Unions use to provide quality labor..they still do provide a quality person as they are tested for drugs, well trained however they cost to much.
In the end the union worker is going to lose out. If the union wont bend they shit the jobs overseas. Like I said 100 times. The union worker loses out either way. Its the union leaders that care about being relevant
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 18, 2011 12:43:45 GMT -5
That logic is ass-backwards and makes absolutely no sense. Obama's health care plan is far from perfect, but it still covers way more people than were covered under the old "can't afford it? Tough shit" philosophy. So covering all people is better than covering only those that can afford it, but covering only those that can afford it is better than covering most people
Obama care is complete garbage. The gov't has no business dishing out HC..it's a joke so many on this board are against the gov't busting you for weed and oher drugs. Hippies and many in the jam community feel the gov't has over stepped their reach in regards to drugs YET in the same breath scream for the gov't to step in and make sure we all have HC.
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 18, 2011 12:46:55 GMT -5
Your prior political positions, as expressed in the voting booth, do indeed have some relevance to this - or any - political conversation. It demonstrates which candidates and policies you have been willing to support in the past
you need to learn a thing or two. Who you vote for IS NOT open for all to see. WHO you vote for is private and is and always will be that way. You have no right to know who I vote for.
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 18, 2011 16:57:56 GMT -5
Hey Chicagorooer, Obama has spent a lot of $$, he has not created jobs, the economy is in the toilet, I am paying almost $4/gal for gas, and he has that socialized health care plan, why should we not recall Obama?
scrog......all the things u say are true however I don't believe in recalls. However you make a great point. The union LEADERS have nothing to lose or gain from Obama. Obama has already bought their votes many times over
1) bailing out GM ect 2) making exceptions under Obamcare for many union shops
The will of the people in 2008 wanted Obama in office. That needs to be respected just the same with Scott walker. Don’t like what he stands for then don’t vote him in OR vote him out next go around. This recall is costing the state SOO much time and money. I mean just look at Mr. forward for example. Look at how well mobilized and how hard he is working. There are many of people like him.
It's all a waste. They could be spending their time helping rebuild communities, putting in place a more solid plan for gov't to work with unions. Instead all this time and capital is going to recall Scott walker
ask yourself this. If walker is recalled will the state suddenly be able to afford these pensions and HC costs? NO will the union workers have to make giant cuts to stay employed? YES
so since the workers will need to take cuts anyway to keep their jobs what is really being achieved??
Only thing is the ability for Union leaders to stay in power and "negotiate" on behalf of the people they represent
sad part is these union leaders are power hungry. ALL the skilled trades are union shops. So try not being part of a union and go out on your own. The unions will kill you. make you look bad and make sure you sure as hell don't land and work
So the Union basically forces you to join their ranks otherwise no job for you. Then when they have you paying dues are you going to suddenly stand up to the union leaders and tell them what they are doing is wrong?/ NEVER..union members vote in lock step with their leaders..nobody dares go against the union for fear of never finding work again
Whether a reader of this thread agrees with Kdogg's political choices/direction or not, for the first 12 pages it has been educational, and even inspiring.
He presents his view of the state-of-the-state of Wisconsin with passion and detail. He's raised awareness of issues that many states are coping with currently through his detailed posts.
Regardless of which side of the vote one leans toward, these posts provide insight to the daily grind of politics that draw the moth to the flame for those already engaged. Possibly of more importance, some of those that skirt the political arena and only engage when the vote comes around can feel KDogg's passion and may feel compelled based on his effort alone to invest more time and effort to maintaining our democracy.
The most pivotal point that has engaged me as a dedicated reader of this thread has been the openness to intellectual debate on the topics.
It appears to be more than coincidence that as the events in Wisconsin are nearing a climatic frenzy that the energy on this thread is being redirected/hijacked.
Obama care is complete garbage. The gov't has no business dishing out HC
Really? Because quite literally every single other first-world country on the face of the planet begs to differ - and the World Health Organization ranks 36 of them above the U.S. in terms of health care. According to the most recent figures I could find online, we're ranked right between Costa Rica and Slovenia; considering we're among the most prosperous nations on Earth, that's a fucking travesty.
Whatever - I'm done with arguing with a troll who has yet to master elementary school spelling, punctuation and grammar. Oh, and here's a hint for next time - maybe learn to string together a coherent sentence if you want people to take you even semi-seriously?
I don't have time to address everything brought up in this thread since my last post, as much as I'd like to now. I won't have regular internet until Wednesday.
I am checking in from a cabin in pretty much the middle of nowhere, a rental property owned by a teacher left vacant this week so he could house volunteers. There's three of us staying, and I'm the last one awake. We're running the operation in a town of 11k tomorrow. I missed my turn coming up here at first, and found myself in Michigan two blocks later.
Tomorrow begins a series of these recalls, which I would like to note are also an expression of the will of the people. As I said before, democracy does not begin and end on election day. This is the culmination of what our movement as a whole has been working for for months. True, only tomorrow and August 9th & 16th are the election days here... but it's been democracy in action every day since this began.
On that note, we have a big day tomorrow. Polls close at 8pm Central, and I'll try to check in with an update after that.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
... Regardless of which side of the vote one leans toward, these posts provide insight to the daily grind of politics that draw the moth to the flame for those already engaged. Possibly of more importance, some of those that skirt the political arena and only engage when the vote comes around can feel KDogg's passion and may feel compelled based on his effort alone to invest more time and effort to maintaining our democracy.
The most pivotal point that has engaged me as a dedicated reader of this thread has been the openness to intellectual debate on the topics....
Forward!
Abbreviated the quote to not take up as much space, but all of the above! Especially that last bit.
Obama care is complete garbage. The gov't has no business dishing out HC
Really? Because quite literally every single other first-world country on the face of the planet begs to differ - and the World Health Organization ranks 36 of them above the U.S. in terms of health care. According to the most recent figures I could find online, we're ranked right between Costa Rica and Slovenia; considering we're among the most prosperous nations on Earth, that's a quacking travesty.
Whatever - I'm done with arguing with a troll who has yet to master elementary school spelling, punctuation and grammar. Oh, and here's a hint for next time - maybe learn to string together a coherent sentence if you want people to take you even semi-seriously?
And more of all the above!
Kevin I look forward to what you'll have to say in the comin' weeks! If nothin' else I at least feel like I'm vicariously livin' through you and thus seein' some real democracy in action.
Checking in while the shower is occupied. I feel the need to address the comments made about taking someone with hats/costumes seriously.
First off, the cheesehead... The term, appropriately enough, began being used as a derogatory term by Cubs fans against Brewers fans. Wisconsinites embraced the term - we're proud of our dairy - and soon homemade cheesehead hats began showing up at games, which ultimately became a consumer product and more widespread. It's state pride, in a way. That's why I emblazoned mine with my state motto.
As for the mad hatter hat... that was a groundscore. At Bonnaroo. I would like to think that what goes on at Bonnaroo is not adequately representative of what happens the other 361 days of the year.
I should note that these criticisms are levied at me by someone sympathetic to today's Tea Party - a group that themselves has a penchant for sporting colonial garb. I sense a double standard here.
Speaking of tea parties, I can't help but feel that in our own colonial days, someone who would have complained about those using costume as political theater and/or tactics would have made similar comments about the actual Boston Tea Party... putting them on the side of the royalists rather than the revolutionaries. I have no qualms being considered like company to our founding fathers in that regard.
My turn to shower. Big day ahead. Keep on rocking in the free world, and I'll do the same.
Bingo you get it now. Unions are the reason the fat cats ARE shipping jobs overseas. They can't afford to pay low skilled workers these cadillac pensions ect. A campany at anytime can ship jobs overseas. Companies DONT' have to work with unions if they chose not to. Unions use to provide quality labor..they still do provide a quality person as they are tested for NO NO WORD!!! well trained however they cost to much.
So what you are saying is that the right thing to do is let Americans get paid third world wages because that is what slave labor in a sweatshop costs? Typical, pretty typical.
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 19, 2011 12:31:00 GMT -5
should note that these criticisms are levied at me by someone sympathetic to today's Tea Party - a group that themselves has a penchant for sporting colonial garb. I sense a double standard here.
please note this my comments all stemmed from several including mr forward who claims my ideas and thoughts shouldnt be considered serious as my grammar is not up to his college educated level. I meerly pointed out his dress and choice of clothing is difficult for people to take him serious...certainly nobody would want to be judged like that.
I guess slaves should have been told to hit the bricks and let's not take them serious b/c they lacked good communication skills??? is that what you are saying.? Only well educated people have the right to speak in this nation?
tea party member? Now that is you simply making things up
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 19, 2011 12:35:10 GMT -5
Really? Because quite literally every single other first-world country on the face of the planet begs to differ - and the World Health Organization ranks 36 of them above the U.S. in terms of health care. According to the most recent figures I could find online, we're ranked right between Costa Rica and Slovenia; considering we're among the most prosperous nations on Earth, that's a quacking travesty
Just like every other nation on the planet also feels the need to secure the borders and takes very serious the people they decide to give benefits to. Go to almost any place on the globe and sneak into their nation and see what happens. Deported. Not in america we give you benefits and let your kid stay here and make him a citizen. Please remember if it wasnt for that our heealth system would be in better shape
In addition really america has 300,000,000 people. slovenia is the size of madison wisconsin. trying to compare that to america's HC is foolish
Why do a HUGE % of candaians and europeans, middle easterners, mexicans, and most people in power and leadership around the world turn to the american HC system for care
you let me know the next time you see people flocking to slovenia for a checkup
The American health care system can kiss my ass. I'm employed, but my employer doesn't offer benefits. Now clearly I chose to have Type 1 diabetes and want to pay higher premiums fer health insurance that I can't afford.
/rant
And I'm pretty sure I'm the one who called you out on your grammar before Mr. Forward. Again, it's hard to take you seriously when it seems you just don't care to spell or grammar check anythin' you post.
Really? Because quite literally every single other first-world country on the face of the planet begs to differ - and the World Health Organization ranks 36 of them above the U.S. in terms of health care. According to the most recent figures I could find online, we're ranked right between Costa Rica and Slovenia; considering we're among the most prosperous nations on Earth, that's a quacking travesty
Just like every other nation on the planet also feels the need to secure the borders and takes very serious the people they decide to give benefits to. Go to almost any place on the globe and sneak into their nation and see what happens. Deported. Not in america we give you benefits and let your kid stay here and make him a citizen. Please remember if it wasnt for that our heealth system would be in better shape
In addition really america has 300,000,000 people. slovenia is the size of madison wisconsin. trying to compare that to america's HC is foolish
Why do a HUGE % of candaians and europeans, middle easterners, mexicans, and most people in power and leadership around the world turn to the american HC system for care
you let me know the next time you see people flocking to slovenia for a checkup
I seem to recall Sarah Palin going to Canada for healthcare......
Really? Because quite literally every single other first-world country on the face of the planet begs to differ - and the World Health Organization ranks 36 of them above the U.S. in terms of health care. According to the most recent figures I could find online, we're ranked right between Costa Rica and Slovenia; considering we're among the most prosperous nations on Earth, that's a quacking travesty
Just like every other nation on the planet also feels the need to secure the borders and takes very serious the people they decide to give benefits to. Go to almost any place on the globe and sneak into their nation and see what happens. Deported. Not in america we give you benefits and let your kid stay here and make him a citizen. Please remember if it wasnt for that our heealth system would be in better shape
In addition really america has 300,000,000 people. slovenia is the size of madison wisconsin. trying to compare that to america's HC is foolish
Why do a HUGE % of candaians and europeans, middle easterners, mexicans, and most people in power and leadership around the world turn to the american HC system for care
you let me know the next time you see people flocking to slovenia for a checkup
I seem to recall Sarah Palin going to Canada for healthcare......
Palin went to Canada for the treatment. She went to the US for the money.
Healthcare has become a money making industry. Rates and premiums are going up, visits with specialists going up. That is why a huge % of people in power around the world are "invested" in our healthcare system. Insurance is the damage. It is so business driven, that it supercedes the social benefit of treatment. People are not getting coverage because they can't afford it, made more difficult by deregulating policies. Treatment is denied to a large populace, which why we are 37th. It sucks
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2011 14:11:36 GMT -5 by Jury - Back to Top
Well, that is where you and I differ, then. I think unions do provide a social net by protecting laborers' rights and making sure they don't get quacked over by the fatcats at the top who generally care about very little beyond the size of their bank accounts, and who will ship their jobs off to China or Mexico or wherever in a New York minute if they think it will increase their bottom line. None of the other programs you mentioned provide that type of job security.
Bingo you get it now. Unions are the reason the fat cats ARE shipping jobs overseas. They can't afford to pay low skilled workers these cadillac pensions ect. A campany at anytime can ship jobs overseas. Companies DONT' have to work with unions if they chose not to. Unions use to provide quality labor..they still do provide a quality person as they are tested for NO NO WORD!!! well trained however they cost to much.
In the end the union worker is going to lose out. If the union wont bend they Leno the jobs overseas. Like I said 100 times. The union worker loses out either way. Its the union leaders that care about being relevant
So the corporations are winning, so we should throw our hands up and let them take out the workers. Nah.
It is a cynical viewpoint based on a long class struggle between industry and laborers. Sure, Union leaders seem ineffectual against corporations. But we don't take away collective bargaining or kill pensions and retirement.
All is needed is a democracy and a government to help regulate business. Step in and say, hey do not deny my pursuit of happyness.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2011 14:27:44 GMT -5 by Jury - Back to Top
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 19, 2011 16:55:47 GMT -5
The American health care system can kiss my ass. I'm employed, but my employer doesn't offer benefits. Now clearly I chose to have Type 1 diabetes and want to pay higher premiums fer health insurance that I can't afford.
no offense but NOBODY is asking u to work for a company that refuses to offer benefits. I do understand HC reform is needed but the gov't taking care of 300,000,000 people when they have proven time and time again they cant manage our tax dollars would be foolish. I would rather pay out my ass then have the gov't MORE involved in my life
I rather have non-profit health care, focusing more on treatment and prevention than costs. I don't care who runs it. The fact we have giant insurance companies making billions of dollars off people who need health care is just sickening and inhumane.
Then again, you live in a world which lives by the motto "Go f*ck yourself". And they called our generation the narcissistic assholes of the world... more like anyone from the Reagan era.
Now, now. It's not all gloom and doom. We still got amazing hospitals, all our nurses here on Inforoo makes sure it does
We have excellent emergency services and workplaces that offer company healthcare. With our population, socialized medicine would be way too expensive with our debt. Government just needs to step in and put a flat ceiling for health premiums. I mean doubled rates in just 2.5 years, HMOs would you mind not raping me! At least give me the fuckin benefit of lube, fer christ's sakes
rant/
Just make premiums a little more affordable to the middle class. Keep an eye on the companies, while the medical professionals do their jobs. We also should make adjusted changes to entitlement programs as we age longer.
This sounds great. Some serious numbers being discussed, a reformed corporate rate that also changes how foreign income is taxed (offshore accounts..sshh). Pulled off by Three Democrats and Three Republicans
My state senator, Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia was one of the guys in that Gang of Six. He was a great governor for the Commonwealth. I'm proud of my homeboy, peace up, peace down, VA representin'
Hey Chicagorooer, Obama has spent a lot of $$, he has not created jobs, the economy is in the toilet, I am paying almost $4/gal for gas, and he has that socialized health care plan, why should we not recall Obama?
scrog......all the things u say are true however I don't believe in recalls. However you make a great point. The union LEADERS have nothing to lose or gain from Obama. Obama has already bought their votes many times over
1) bailing out GM ect 2) making exceptions under Obamcare for many union shops
The will of the people in 2008 wanted Obama in office. That needs to be respected just the same with Scott walker. Don’t like what he stands for then don’t vote him in OR vote him out next go around. This recall is costing the state SOO much time and money. I mean just look at Mr. forward for example. Look at how well mobilized and how hard he is working. There are many of people like him.
It's all a waste. They could be spending their time helping rebuild communities, putting in place a more solid plan for gov't to work with unions. Instead all this time and capital is going to recall Scott walker
ask yourself this. If walker is recalled will the state suddenly be able to afford these pensions and HC costs? NO will the union workers have to make giant cuts to stay employed? YES
so since the workers will need to take cuts anyway to keep their jobs what is really being achieved??
Only thing is the ability for Union leaders to stay in power and "negotiate" on behalf of the people they represent
sad part is these union leaders are power hungry. ALL the skilled trades are union shops. So try not being part of a union and go out on your own. The unions will kill you. make you look bad and make sure you sure as hell don't land and work
So the Union basically forces you to join their ranks otherwise no job for you. Then when they have you paying dues are you going to suddenly stand up to the union leaders and tell them what they are doing is wrong?/ NEVER..union members vote in lock step with their leaders..nobody dares go against the union for fear of never finding work again
First off, can you learn to use the quote button and not cut-n-paste, so I know who you are quoting?
Second, I fully support Kdogg 110%! This guy and his peeps believe they are be cheated by the guy in office and they are standing up for themselves, in accordance with the law.
Third, Obama has spent a lot of $$, which I was not a fan of it when Bush spend trillions on a false war and then, lets not forget, Bush started the hand-out, I mean bail out. Our economy has been ran into the ground, by the previous administration, and congress, red and blue play a part in this. So just because we are not back to where we were before 2008 and when the shit-hit-the-fan, does not mean we are not headed in the right direction. Obama does not have any part in how much we pay for a gallon of gas. Socialized health care is a scare tactic. Any time something is labeled with socialism people think, bad, Socialism and communism are bad. That has been ingrained into our heads, since the cold war and probably before. Before you speak how people from around the world come to America for health care, you should also know people around the world go to France for health care. France has a universal health care system. I respect your opinion against recalls, but that is the law.
Last, I ask, did you get mad when Bush pushed congress for a 700 billion dollar bailout? Did you speak up and voice out against Bush when the Department of Homeland security was built? wire taps? Let me remind you of your stance
... I would rather pay out my ass then have the gov't MORE involved in my life
Last question, You said, union members all ways vote with union leaders, because they are afraid they might lose their job. How do you know this? Voting is private, you said it yourself.
you need to learn a thing or two. Who you vote for IS NOT open for all to see. WHO you vote for is private and is and always will be that way. You have no right to know who I vote for.
If voting is private, why can union members vote for whom ever they want to?
I know I said I was done, but it's just way too much fun pointing out all the many, many flaws in chicagorooer's asinine arguments. I haven't been this amused by anything on Inforoo in quite some time, so thanks for the laughs.
By the way, I love how when you can no longer morally defend your stance on unions, you turn the thread into a discussion on healthcare. You stay classy, chicagorooer. I was really hoping not to derail this into a discussion about healthcare and keep it about the Cheddar Revolution as we already have a separate thread about health care reform on here already, but you've made it unavoidable. And frankly I don't care if I am feeding out of a troll's hand here, because I'm more interested in pointing out some of the ridiculous reasoning that's used by the other side of the aisle in general, and not just chicagorooer specifically.
Really? Because quite literally every single other first-world country on the face of the planet begs to differ - and the World Health Organization ranks 36 of them above the U.S. in terms of health care. According to the most recent figures I could find online, we're ranked right between Costa Rica and Slovenia; considering we're among the most prosperous nations on Earth, that's a quacking travesty
Just like every other nation on the planet also feels the need to secure the borders and takes very serious the people they decide to give benefits to. Go to almost any place on the globe and sneak into their nation and see what happens. Deported. Not in america we give you benefits and let your kid stay here and make him a citizen. Please remember if it wasnt for that our heealth system would be in better shape
Ummmm.... the key part of that phrase there was sneak in - I like how you just threw in that extra part about entering a country illegally as if I wouldn't notice. Yes, entering a country illegally will get you in deep shit - nobody's arguing that. But there's nothing to stop you from entering, say, Canada and seeking medical care there legally, which is what many people in this country are forced to do when they can't afford treatment. I'm not saying America doesn't have some of the best doctors and hospitals in the world, because we do - for the lucky few who can afford it. But for a lot of people who get sick in this country, they're forced to make the choice between keeping their house for their families or keeping their lives for themselves, and that's not a decision anybody should ever have to make.
Besides, it's the law that a person in need of serious medical help at an emergency room cannot be turned down regardless of citizenship or their ability to pay, and that law was in place long before Obama took office - nothing about that changed with healthcare reform. And unfortunately, many people have to wait until they need emergency care before they seek treatment, putting an unnecessary strain on ERs, whose costs are far higher than non-emergency medical care. Adding the option of more affordable preventative care would drastically reduce that stress, freeing up doctors and nurses to focus on patients with true emergencies, and not just long-standing medical problems they chose to ignore because they couldn't afford treatment.
A lot of people say that a public health care system would bankrupt the medical industry (not sure if you personally have made this argument yet, and frankly I couldn't be arsed to check) - which is a complete fallacy, just a scare tactic used in furthering a political point of view. Have public schools put private schools out of business? Has public transportation put taxicabs and limousines out of business? Clearly not. There is room for each to thrive in a free market.
In addition really america has 300,000,000 people. slovenia is the size of madison wisconsin. trying to compare that to america's HC is foolish
Wow... THAT is your argument? I think you need to go back to 7th grade math class and 1st grade logic and reasoning class, because anyone with even an ounce of sense in their brain knows the important factor is not a country's population, but GDP per capita, which puts us at almost double Slovenia's income level. Every other industrialized nation on Earth provides this service for their citizens. The fact that a country as prosperous as our own can't provide this most necessary and basic of services is quite simply unacceptable.
Also, Slovenia has over 2 million people, while Madison is a little more than a tenth the size at just shy of a quarter million - but hey, you haven't let those pesky little things called facts get in the way of your arguments so far, so why should you start now? Yeah, sure, just make some shit up to scare people and hope everyone else just accepts it as fact - that's the Fox News way!
I agree with you Jack, but I love it when people speak about something they know nothing about. Sorry to feed into the derailment of this thread into healthcare, so I am done plying with the Troll, for now. ;D
Like I said last night, Sen. Hansen soundly defeated the Republican challenger last night by a 66-34 margin last night. I was in the border city of Marinette, population in the 11-12k range the past couple days. The city is in a county of the same name. This area was slightly for Obama in 08, but favored Walker last November and Justice Prosser in April. Every single ward in Marinette County went for Sen. Hansen last night. The city of Marinette was 75-25 in favor of Hansen.
True, the opposition here was a bit weak. The challenger ran the petition drive to recall Hansen - and got nearly twice the number of signatures for that as he managed to get votes last night. It's still worth noting that this is considered a swing district - one sandwiched between two obther districts with upcoming recalls.
With that in mind, my boy DGP & I are heading back to the Madison office soon. It has already been decided that once we get back into the office, we are doing a lap around high-fiving everybody we see before we get back to work.
no offense but NOBODY is asking u to work for a company that refuses to offer benefits.
Fantastic advice!
While we're at it, I'm just gonna go grab one of those jobs that will pay me around $100,000. I mean, it's SO stinkin' easy to find a high-paying job with excellent benefits these days!
