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Here is a discussion on the whole thing, I went to zoe 12 or so times over 4 years so I think I have a little more perspective on it than just judging by the name and a newspaper from the town that did not like them. It is a real bitch easily the nicest festival grounds in the country. Also maybe you have a point with Bonnaroo, but you sure as hell dont when it comes to AllGood, or from what I heard Rothbury, or certainly from any indoor arena you ever saw Phish at. If witnessing drug deals going down on a property is enough to seize all someones assets, freeze their bank account, and force them to testify against themselves then a whole lot of places are going to be looking at trouble. I am pretty sure it was a little more than the name when they got singled out. They are the smallest and have the poorest owners of any festival grounds. Don't think they won't try it again if this goes well.
Probably true. I'm looking at the bigger picture though. It won't matter how inconspicuous people are when they place scanners at the entrance to festivals. Don't kid yourself, it's coming.
Also maybe you have a point with Bonnaroo, but you sure as hell dont when it comes to AllGood, or from what I heard Rothbury, or certainly from any indoor arena you ever saw Phish at. If witnessing NO NO WORD!!! deals going down on a property is enough to seize all someones assets, freeze their bank account, and force them to testify against themselves then a whole lot of places are going to be looking at trouble. I am pretty sure it was a little more than the name when they got singled out. They are the smallest and have the poorest owners of any festival grounds. Don't think they won't try it again if this goes well.
No. Indoor arenas where I see Phish shows have security details - they're at the gate, checking you when you come in, and walking around the place during the show. Pretty sure that the times I've been to Langerado (RIP), Vibes, etc., they also had security in place. Having that in place, even if those officers are instructed to be rather lax (or "cool," if you will) gives the festival organizers some level of protection, akin to the concept of plausible deniability. They can't be accused of fostering an environment where illegal acts are tolerated because they've taken steps to ensure that doesn't happen. Nobody would expect that they can keep track of all activity 24/7, but even just showing an effort in enforcement would be enough to protect them.
If DEA agents were undercover at Bonnaroo, and witnessed repeated instances of blatant dr*g dealing right in front of staff/organizers/whoever, they'd probably have the same case.
The simplest way to think of it is this - it's understood that at large events like this there's going to be some illegal activity taking place. There are laws in place that force you to take the bare minimum of steps to combat that (i.e. I'm pretty sure that if you're seeking a permit for a large event you need to show proof that you've hired X number of security for every Y number of attendees). The minute amount of illegal activity that takes place is generally overlooked, at least as to the organizers' culpability, as long as it seems to be a tertiary effect; i.e. at places like Bonnaroo, Rothbury, Coachella, whatever, the infrastructure and organization clearly demarcate those events as music-centric. What seems to have happened here was that it became noticed that lots of people were going to Schwagstock simply for the dr*gs, and the festival seemed okay with this.
Zoe had an outside security company hired, they certainly would stop deals from going down on shakedown, though they did not bust people either. I saw counterfeiters get taken down by security as well as a guy who hit his girlfriend. It was fully staffed with 6 EMT's who had a permanent cabin and could deal with any issues on site. I promise you despite what people say it was run well and professionally. Roofan, Teine, Druid, and several others have been there and can verify this.
I am not sure where that quote came from by the way, but I have been going since 06, and there is no band that "regularly" used to play there that does not now. Convenient how you can get an anonymous quote to prove your point huh?
Also sure there is security inside the venue at phish shows, but do not tell me you have not seen some stuff go down with little or no security in the parking lots of the shows, which is still part of the property.
Probably true. I'm looking at the bigger picture though. It won't matter how inconspicuous people are when they place scanners at the entrance to festivals. Don't kid yourself, it's coming.
Highly unlikely to happen. Most festivals recognize that a decent amount of their attendees are going to participate in some sort of illicit activity. To allow something like a complete body scanner to go up at the entrance would potentially hamper their bottom line. Likewise, in a large majority of cases the local area surrounding these festivals sees a profit from these existing, so they aren't going to put too much pressure on law enforcement to step in and force the issue.
The sky is not falling.
No? Have you been to a bus depot lately? Or maybe an airport? They are about to put these things in subway stations and at high traffic areas on streets. I don't want people looking under my junk for drugs without probable cause weather I have them or not.
Zoe had an outside security company hired, they certainly would stop deals from going down on shakedown, though they did not bust people either. I saw counterfeiters get taken down by security as well as a guy who hit his girlfriend. It was fully staffed with 6 EMT's who had a permanent cabin and could deal with any issues on site. I promise you despite what people say it was run well and professionally. Roofan, Teine, Druid, and several others have been there and can verify this.
I am not sure where that quote came from by the way, but I have been going since 06, and there is no band that "regularly" used to play there that does not now. Convenient how you can get an anonymous quote to prove your point huh?
Also sure there is security inside the venue at phish shows, but do not tell me you have not seen some stuff go down with little or no security in the parking lots of the shows, which is still part of the property.
Apparently whatever security there is there wasn't adequate, or wasn't doing it's job, or whatever. I know it's fun and easy to pose the government as this big bad boogeyman looking to crush all our hopes and dreams, but the reality of the situation is that they're smart enough to not go ahead and do something drastic like this, something they know will be challenged/debated/publicized, without being sure of the reason. Otherwise it gets overturned and they've shot their wad, so to speak.
Second, you're really, really reaching with the whole "lots attached to venues" argument. You know as well as I do that the police are allowed in those lots at any time. I don't think I've ever been to a show where there weren't cop cars stationed in the lots. Hell, at Phish shows they move through the lots specifically to tell people to get inside for the show.
There's a time and a place for outrage but not everything is an injustice.
I have been to plenty of lots where the police stood around the side and anything went past that. Also I meant the quote in your article was from an anonymous source, I think that journalist made it up not you.
I have been to plenty of lots where the police stood around the side and anything went past that. Also I meant the quote in your article was from an anonymous source, I think that journalist made it up not you.
That may be, but the very element of police presence would insulate those venues from legal action. I know you're not this dense, seriously.
Look it is obvious to me at certain venues that the police are not there to bust people just to stop trouble. Zoe like Bonnaroo had a private security force that did the same thing that is not being dense. My favorite quote from phish lot this year was the cop driving around the Alpharetta lot saying "Please stop doing drugs and just go home".
If the DEA decides the cops are not enforcing the law; it is I would assume easier for them to get jurisdiction anyway right?
^There is that which is why I gave you the point on Bonnaroo, AllGood is a madhouse however, and I understand Rothbury was as well. Also regardless of any of this particular situation I think the federal forfeiture law is patently unfair, and I do hat to see it used.
I don't mean to imply that the government doesn't do arbitrary/unnecessary things - they do, and often. My point is more that they used a very unorthodox/controversial form of forfeiture/seizure here. If they weren't certain they had a case, they wouldn't have taken this action, because the controversial nature of the action only increases the chance that they'd get the case thrown out if the information wasn't valid.
Proper application of force and all that.
From what I know of the law which admittedly is not complete, it seems like it is easier to convict using this law than traditional means. If they freeze your bank accounts it makes life difficult, and also the fact that the property is being tried in essentially a civil action makes the states burden of proof quite a bit less. The real thing though is that their is no fifth amendment right in a civil proceeding. They can put you in a position where you are forced to either testify and it can be used for later criminal proceedings, or if you deviate at all they will get you for perjury.
That being said publicly at least the attitude is pretty positive that this is going to fail, but it still sucks for all involved.
I'm just glad that I can now cite Fox News reports to back up my increasingly insane propositions, and that those articles will be accepted as canon by Inforoo. So stoked. Just wait until you all hear how Glenn Beck feels about My Morning Jacket.
thehill.com/homenews/administration/130549-next-step-for-body-scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro- O.K. there are plenty of articles on the subject and I am no fan of the Fox propaganda machine. I don't pretend to speak for Inforoo either. Canon? It's my opinion which i'm still allowed to voice if i'm not mistaken. Every year I see more and more people on the hoods of squad cars on the way into roo. Sure, the large corporate run festivals can probably stave off the police state for now. What's getting "increasingly insane" is the amount of freedom we relinquish in the name of homeland security.
I'm just glad that I can now cite Fox News reports to back up my increasingly insane propositions, and that those articles will be accepted as canon by Inforoo. So stoked. Just wait until you all hear how Glenn Beck feels about My Morning Jacket.
thehill.com/homenews/administration/130549-next-step-for-body-scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro- O.K. there are plenty of articles on the subject and I am no fan of the Fox propaganda machine. I don't pretend to speak for Inforoo either. Canon? It's my opinion which i'm still allowed to voice if i'm not mistaken. Every year I see more and more people on the hoods of squad cars on the way into roo. Sure, the large corporate run festivals can probably stave off the police state for now. What's getting "increasingly insane" is the amount of freedom we relinquish in the name of homeland security.
Honestly every year since 06 the numbers of tickets and arrests at Bonnaroo goes down.