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So I've been thinking a lot lately of joining the military. The reasons I was to do this are many....I get bored and switch jobs a lot, I feel like I'm not experiencing enough of the world/ life and as it stands right now it looks to be the only way I'll have a good career. My only problem with it is the ethics. I don't believe in war. However my justification for joining is that we are involved on them anyway and there fucked up shit happening and I figure the more level headed, non hating people involved the better!
So what are your thoughts on it? How do you feel about people in the army?
PS....Don't go on with the "omg you could die or get hurt" because the excitement is a big reason I'm interested
As long as you're ok with people trying to kill you (and you having to kill them) I'd say go for it. If you're also OK with authority. They're really into authority. And I've known several military people who had issues with war but joined for those exact reasons you mention and did fine.
As someone who served in an Army branch here's the best advice I can give... see what jobs are available in the Air Force before pursuing other options.
Post by Mean Mr. Mustard on Jun 4, 2010 9:27:23 GMT -5
My brother has mentioned joining for similar reasons that you are considering. Personally, I would recommend the Air Force. My cousin has a great career in the air force and got to travel the world. Met his wife while he was stationed in Guam. Also, less getting shot at or in his case none that I know of. Unless you really want the adrenaline rush of combat then the Army or the Marines would be a better choice
Post by questionablesanity on Jun 4, 2010 11:43:32 GMT -5
Coast Guard ftw. Seriously, my step dad was in for a number of years and loved it. I've had several friends go into the Air Force and loved. They got to travel the world, easier basic training without all of the brainwashing, easy jobs during their enlistment.
My father was in the Army for 22 years and I've never heard him say anything good about it.
I have a couple of friends who went into the Marines and they are completely different people now. Totally brainwashed.
I would think that most branches of the military would be boring. But you can't just quit that job. You're kind of stuck in it for awhile.
The big question is do you think you could kill someone?
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Well I probably should have mention that I'm Canadian so I'd be joining the Canadian army which as far as I can tell is a little less "brainwashy"
But anyway, I went down to the recruitment office today and they told me they are not looking for anymore combat positions for at least a year! They gave me some info on some positions they are looking for...various types of engineers, mechanics and electrocutions...mostly navy but one or two air force and one army. I think I'm going to apply for something as it will pay for my schooling and hopefully allow me to move around a lot during my 5 years I will have to serve in order to pay off my schooling. This won't quite provide me with the excitement I'm looking for but at least Ill see the world... and I'll still get basic training which I am excited for due to the "push yourself to the limit" aspect
Well I probably should have mention that I'm Canadian so I'd be joining the Canadian army which as far as I can tell is a little less "brainwashy"
They gave me some info on some positions they are looking for...various types of engineers, mechanics and [glow=red,2,300]electrocutions[/glow]...mostly navy but one or two air force and one army.
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Post by hibouxdufromage on Jun 6, 2010 15:13:29 GMT -5
I joined the Marine Corps when I was 19 for some similar reasons, I was treading water in junior college, had little to no direction or idea with what I wanted to do in life. I thought a career in art was too competitive, time consuming, I'd never be able to make a living at it, so I did what everyone in my family has done since the TX-Mexico war. Signed up. Remember these important things: 1. Recruiters are full of shit. I don't care what country. 2. If you are a conscientious objector, the military is not for you. You may be in a support job, but the difference between the clerk who signs off on the crate of .50cal ammunition and the soldier or Marine who puts one of those .50cal rounds in someone's skull is moot. One man kills with a trigger, the other with a pen. You're part of the machine that results in casualties on both sides. This is reality. If you don't want this to be part of your own reality, seek other career options. 3. The pay sucks. The benefits like the money for school usually don't pan out to be as good as they initially sound (see #1). 4. You might get to travel the world and see things you never thought you would, or you might be stuck stationed in Yellowknife the whole time. Trust me, 29 palms, CA is not the same place you think of when you hear that Robert Plant song. I learned this the hard way. 5. You will make good friends that you will never forget, have good times that you'll never remember, learn lots of useful skills that will apply in any career field, and will be doing something important with your life.
Choose carefully, my friend. And good luck with whatever path you choose.
Post by grizzlepickle on Jun 7, 2010 16:24:16 GMT -5
^^^ TRUTH... I served 6.5 years in the Navy working on aircraft that provided birds eye recon for Soldiers and Marines on the ground. Primarily we flew ahead of convoys to let them know everything was ok ahead of them.
The only point that has gotten better, as far as the US military is concerned, is the new GI Bill. The old one you had to pay out of pocket and then receive reimbursement and over all it barely paid for leno. The new one pays your tuition up front for you, gives you a quack-ton of $ for books, and pays E-5 married BAH (In Baton Rouge it translates to about $1300/month) while your in school. I'm enjoying it!
I joined the Marine Corps when I was 19 for some similar reasons, I was treading water in junior college, had little to no direction or idea with what I wanted to do in life. I thought a career in art was too competitive, time consuming, I'd never be able to make a living at it, so I did what everyone in my family has done since the TX-Mexico war. Signed up. Remember these important things: 1. Recruiters are full of Leno. I don't care what country. 2. If you are a conscientious objector, the military is not for you. You may be in a support job, but the difference between the clerk who signs off on the crate of .50cal ammunition and the soldier or Marine who puts one of those .50cal rounds in someone's skull is moot. One man kills with a trigger, the other with a pen. You're part of the machine that results in casualties on both sides. This is reality. If you don't want this to be part of your own reality, seek other career options. 3. The pay sucks. The benefits like the money for school usually don't pan out to be as good as they initially sound (see #1). 4. You might get to travel the world and see things you never thought you would, or you might be stuck stationed in Yellowknife the whole time. Trust me, 29 palms, CA is not the same place you think of when you hear that Robert Plant song. I learned this the hard way. 5. You will make good friends that you will never forget, have good times that you'll never remember, learn lots of useful skills that will apply in any career field, and will be doing something important with your life.
Choose carefully, my friend. And good luck with whatever path you choose.
4 yrs Active and 4 yrs Nat'l Guard Army for me,
Everything right here is True true true!!
And what teine said above, check out the air force...
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I spent 6 years in the infantry in the Marine Corps, and if it weren't for circumstances and events out of the realm of my control I would still be there. I often think about going back, even though I've got a great job as a civilian. Just like any walk of life, there are pros and cons. And forget about the brainwashing nonsense you see here, because it's just that - nonsense. That's just how people who have no idea what it's like try to justify why we do what we do. But in reality, there's no brainwashing involved.
That's just how people who have no idea what it's like try to justify why we do what we do. But in reality, there's no brainwashing involved.
That makes me think it's an even worse option. If you can't write off people joining a career where your job is either killing other people, or doing all the things "necessary" to support killing, as being brainwashed, then that means all those people are willfully and consciously making the choice to be a part of something where the deaths of other people are the goal.
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That's just how people who have no idea what it's like try to justify why we do what we do. But in reality, there's no brainwashing involved.
That makes me think it's an even worse option. If you can't write off people joining a career where your job is either killing other people, or doing all the things "necessary" to support killing, as being brainwashed, then that means all those people are willfully and consciously making the choice to be a part of something where the deaths of other people are the goal.
And that's exactly why you will NEVER understand. It's not about taking lives, it's about saving them. I formed bonds and friendships with the Marines I served with stronger than anything you can possibly imagine. And I'd do whatever it takes to make sure that they come home with ten fingers and ten toes, even at the expense of my own life. Forget politics, forget policy, forget the mission. It's all about the man next to you, and that's it. But someone who's never experienced that won't and couldn't possibly understand what it's like.
I joined in peacetime, before 9/11. I enlisted for a few different reasons, most of which was to find out just how mentally strong I could be when put in the most stressful of situations. But when my initial contract was up, we were at war and my motives for re-enlisting were entirely different, and had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to kill.
That makes me think it's an even worse option. If you can't write off people joining a career where your job is either killing other people, or doing all the things "necessary" to support killing, as being brainwashed, then that means all those people are willfully and consciously making the choice to be a part of something where the deaths of other people are the goal.
And that's exactly why you will NEVER understand. It's not about taking lives, it's about saving them. I formed bonds and friendships with the Marines I served with stronger than anything you can possibly imagine. And I'd do whatever it takes to make sure that they come home with ten fingers and ten toes, even at the expense of my own life. Forget politics, forget policy, forget the mission. It's all about the man next to you, and that's it. But someone who's never experienced that won't and couldn't possibly understand what it's like.
I joined in peacetime, before 9/11. I enlisted for a few different reasons, most of which was to find out just how mentally strong I could be when put in the most stressful of situations. But when my initial contract was up, we were at war and my motives for re-enlisting were entirely different, and had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to kill.
Badfish- I don't think it's that jesmith will never understand (true that he will never understand esprit de corps - you have to be in it to get it) but that he does understand and disagrees. The fact that this is being discussed in a public forum is proof that the sacfifices we make to uphold the committment we make at MEPS- that one moment that defines the difference between being in the military and being a civilian- is working. jesmith- On a deeper level, but still exoteric, than thinking along the lines that all military personnel join to kill- and also directly related to that moment at MEPS that I just mentioned: one common belief that you will find across every different uniform and rank is that we believe so deeply in the ideas behind the seminal documents of our nation, that we will die to protect those ideas or kill those who threaten to destroy them. Without the people that form this turtle shell around our society, there is no chance of making the choice to be a pacifist or CEO or artist or gangster or vegetarian or what have you. Our country is certainly not perfect but still has a chance to be the shining beacon on the hill setting the best example for the rest of the world, but not without those who are willing to sacrifice everything so that you have a chance to make that happen.... or to sit on your duff and do nothing.
is it really the overwhelming love of country that gets you in?
or is it the desire to be part of a strong group of people all with a single purpose? not in a "im a big tough guy!" kind of way, but in the same way people join fraternal organizations or clubs...
i have no idea, but the one thing i have heard (and I believe) is what badfish said - "it's about the man next to you"... and less about the guy in charge.
is it really the overwhelming love of country that gets you in?
or is it the desire to be part of a strong group of people all with a single purpose? not in a "im a big tough guy!" kind of way, but in the same way people join fraternal organizations or clubs...
i have no idea, but the one thing i have heard (and I believe) is what badfish said - "it's about the man next to you"... and less about the guy in charge.
Everyone has their own reasons and patriotic idealism did play a part in my decision to enlist, but wasn't the dominant thought in my head at the time. My father was a Marine and was killed in Beirut back in 82, so that played a large part. But mostly I wanted to challenge myself both physically and mentally, see if I had what it takes to be the best. Becoming a Marine was only the first step as I continued on and earned my way into the Recon community, pushing my limits and doing things I never thought possible along the way.
By the time my initial enlistment was over we were at war and I had already done 2 deployments. My decision to stay was almost entirely based on my overwhelming love for my brothers. To me it was worth it to stay if I could help one Marine get back home safely to his family, even if it meant my own life.
Politics and policy played no part whatsoever in my decision to join the Marine Corps, or my decision to stay. What ultimately got me out was my desire to be with and take care of my mom during her struggle with breast cancer, which she ultimately lost.
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I was in the Marine Corps for six years as a Combat Engineer. It was an intense, life changing experience that I will carry with me for the rest of my life. I don't regret it and despite the horrific things I saw while deployed to Iraq and Kuwait, I would do it again.
I was also given the opportunity to live and work in Tanzania, Africa for a summer, which was the most amazing thing I was fortunate enough to do. It was completely non-violent and 100% humanitarian. We built a Med Clinic for a small, small town called Msata about three hours inland from Dar Es Salaam. It was that trip that made me realize I was truly making a difference, be it a small one, but a difference for good nonetheless. You will, as did I, make some of the tightest and closest friendships imaginable, I am thankful for the friends I made, who still to this day, are like brothers and sisters to me.
My only suggestion is to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into, what possibilities lay ahead and that you're prepared for those things.
I formed bonds and friendships with the Marines I served with stronger than anything you can possibly imagine. And I'd do whatever it takes to make sure that they come home with ten fingers and ten toes, even at the expense of my own life. Forget politics, forget policy, forget the mission. It's all about the man next to you, and that's it. But someone who's never experienced that won't and couldn't possibly understand what it's like.
I formed bonds and friendships with the Marines I served with stronger than anything you can possibly imagine. And I'd do whatever it takes to make sure that they come home with ten fingers and ten toes, even at the expense of my own life. Forget politics, forget policy, forget the mission. It's all about the man next to you, and that's it. But someone who's never experienced that won't and couldn't possibly understand what it's like.
this.
I get what you guys are saying, and agree to a certain point, we need a strong military with good people in it. But saying nobody who was not in the military can form a strong friendship bond is a little off base. Statements like that are what bring on the brainwashing comments.
jesmith- On a deeper level, but still exoteric, than thinking along the lines that all military personnel join to kill- and also directly related to that moment at MEPS that I just mentioned: one common belief that you will find across every different uniform and rank is that we believe so deeply in the ideas behind the seminal documents of our nation, that we will die to protect those ideas or kill those who threaten to destroy them. Without the people that form this turtle shell around our society, there is no chance of making the choice to be a pacifist or CEO or artist or gangster or vegetarian or what have you. Our country is certainly not perfect but still has a chance to be the shining beacon on the hill setting the best example for the rest of the world, but not without those who are willing to sacrifice everything so that you have a chance to make that happen.... or to sit on your duff and do nothing.
I agree, I just wish I had seen less former military personnel trying to overturn the first amendment in Murfreesboro over the new Mosque expansion project.
Last Edit: Jul 13, 2010 16:38:40 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I get what you guys are saying, and agree to a certain point, we need a strong military with good people in it. But saying nobody who was not in the military can form a strong friendship bond is a little off base. Statements like that are what bring on the brainwashing comments.
I'm not saying you have to be in the military to form a strong bond/friendship. I'm saying unless you have stood next to a guy while mortars were falling around you, you can never UNDERSTAND how close that brings you together, unless you were there, feeling the sand beat against your face and the utter chaos that follows.
I get what you guys are saying, and agree to a certain point, we need a strong military with good people in it. But saying nobody who was not in the military can form a strong friendship bond is a little off base. Statements like that are what bring on the brainwashing comments.
I'm not saying you have to be in the military to form a strong bond/friendship. I'm saying unless you have stood next to a guy while mortars were falling around you, you can never UNDERSTAND how close that brings you together, unless you were there, feeling the sand beat against your face and the utter chaos that follows.
I guess I will have to take your word for it, but telling someone they are unable to understand something you have experienced is a specious argument at best. I am not trying to pretend that I know all about from watching Saving Private Ryan or anything, but I could also say nobody could ever understand the bonds I formed hiking in the Smokies and getting caught in a spring blizzard that drops three feet of snow on you and almost kills you with 12 degree weather with a -10 degree wind chill. Strong situations forge bonds, but it does not happen only in the military.
^^ You're absolutely right, and I'm sure if there were anyone with you during your hike, you have something special that you share with him/her and no one else. Intense situations do forge strong bonds.
What I've been unable to explain is how the relationships I've made in the Marine Corps were so close and in-tune from those experiences, that I literally CAN'T explain it. The shear emotion, imagery and fear one experiences through war can't be reproduced, maybe close, but never fully there. The bonds I've made go without speaking, I needn't say or do a thing to be on the same level as my fellow Marines.
I do have to clarify though, had we not experienced what war has to offer together, we wouldn't be as close as if we'd stayed stateside the entire enlistment.
I get what you guys are saying, and agree to a certain point, we need a strong military with good people in it. But saying nobody who was not in the military can form a strong friendship bond is a little off base. Statements like that are what bring on the brainwashing comments. .
I'm not saying that you can't form strong bonds with someone without being in combat, that would be absurd. And I'm not saying that the bonds we do form are better or stronger, but they are different. I have my friends that I grew up with and stuck by me through thick and thin, and I love them all to death. Then I have my friends from my time in the Corps, and it's not even something I'm sure I can put into words but it's different with them. We spilt the same blood in the same mud and it's like we can complete each other's sentences. We're all on the same wavelength it seems, and it's without a doubt different than the civilian world.
I get what you guys are saying, and agree to a certain point, we need a strong military with good people in it. But saying nobody who was not in the military can form a strong friendship bond is a little off base. Statements like that are what bring on the brainwashing comments. .
I'm not saying that you can't form strong bonds with someone without being in combat, that would be absurd. And I'm not saying that the bonds we do form are better or stronger, but they are different. I have my friends that I grew up with and stuck by me through thick and thin, and I love them all to death. Then I have my friends from my time in the Corps, and it's not even something I'm sure I can put into words but it's different with them. We spilt the same blood in the same mud and it's like we can complete each other's sentences. We're all on the same wavelength it seems, and it's without a doubt different than the civilian world.
I disagree but I will also leave you alone about it. Like I said to Higgi almost freezing to death and losing half the skin on your foot to frostbite with a friend also creates bonds like this. Having a friend you survived a life threatening event with always does that, it is not unique to the military experience imo.
Post by questionablesanity on Jul 14, 2010 16:47:08 GMT -5
Basically what Jess said. I've seen several of my friends go into the military and then come out as different people. My dad was in the army for 22 years. My mom said he was a completely different person when he got out. Anytime that you are broken down like that and then built back up, you're somewhat brainwashed. You think how they intended for you to think. In essence, they built you.
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Well, agree to disagree. But don't dismiss it as brainwashing just because you don't understand it, I do take exception to that.
Excuse me man I did not dismiss anything you said, I just took exception to the fact that you think life forging bonds only happen if you are in the military. This is what I meant by a specious argument, and the attitude about it is what will bring those comments that is all I said.
Last Edit: Jul 14, 2010 19:39:33 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top