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As far as the ACLU I consider them a reverse discrimination organization. When I was beaten unconscious by the NYPD they never even returned my calls. White kid + white cop = no news coverage. They help out minorities/"persecuted peoples" in NY who go through far less than I did.
Was the ACLU engaging in reverse discrimination when they allied with Rush Limbaugh during some of his troubles a few years back?
They stuck up for the kids behind this too: As you can see, this photo is chock full of persecuted minorities.
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Post by nitetimeritetime on Mar 13, 2010 12:53:19 GMT -5
Apparently the students' reactions have been mixed since her return to school, pondo. Some are supporting her, but from comments she's made, many are blaming her for this. But really, if the adults at maniac's fishing forum are starting threads called "Lesbian trashes school prom for her classmates," then you have to think that at least some of the high school kids are going to scapegoat this girl too.
Actually Jess brought them. My post was in direct response to his mentioning them. I edited his mention of them out of the quote that I edited and made reference to them as an after thought.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Mar 13, 2010 15:43:29 GMT -5
Actually, the ACLU was mentioned in the original post of this thread. And Jess was responding to dudezer's post that mentioned the ACLU. The point wasn't who first brought up the ACLU, it was who first brought up the off-topic discussion about the ACLU. That would be you. Talking about the ACLU's involvement in this case, as they were doing, would be on point and not a thread jack. On the other hand, your afterthought was making this thread about your issues with the ACLU, which have nothing to do with this case, and isn't really the topic of this thread. That's why I called it a thread jack.
But this thread seems to be slowing down a bit, so like I said last night, let's go ahead and talk about it. Since you think the ACLU is a "reverse discrimination organization" I'd like to know why, beyond your personal case. What do you know about their history? Do they have a history of representing white males, or of refusing to represent white males?
Post by Fishing Maniac on Mar 13, 2010 16:07:54 GMT -5
You know what NTRT? You've been trying to pick a fight with me since I came into this thread and I'm really not interested. You can accuse me of thread jacking all you want, but you accused me of doing so in a post directed at Jesse about me/my post. Turning the topic of discussion to another board member is a thread jack. It's also inappropriate. I felt that my posts were relevant. I'm sorry that you disagree.
Funny how I have to defend my view of an organization yet I'm the only one (except maybe Jesse) who has any personal experience with them. At least I'm the only person here who has ever approached them for assistance as far as I can tell. My real life experience is apparently no match for your opinions. Absolutely awesome!
I lived what I lived and that shaped my view. That's not gonna change based on internet discussion.
Now back to the girl and the school and the bowtie. Someone should sponsor a prom for all of the students independent of the school and let the girl come as she pleases. Is that a realistic idea or would there be too much liability for a third party to throw such a shindig for minors?
I felt that my posts were relevant. I'm sorry that you disagree.
You said that part of your post was off topic yourself.
My real life experience is apparently no match for your opinions. Absolutely awesome!
I didn't say that at all. In fact, I haven't given an opinion of the ACLU. I asked you for data to support YOUR opinion. Your single experience is one case. I asked for more data about the ACLU's history, figuring you were basing your opinion of them on more than a single thing that happened to you.
Now back to the girl and the school and the bowtie. Someone should sponsor a prom for all of the students independent of the school and let the girl come as she pleases. Is that a realistic idea or would there be too much liability for a third party to throw such a shindig for minors?
Several different groups have offered to hold a separate prom for the kids already. At this point, it looks like the girl is going to keep trying to get the school to have their original prom. I think the ACLU is pressing the issue because it doesn't want to let the school off. My guess is that they want to set a legal precedent that will make it clear to other schools that this kind of discrimination can't legally continue.
I want to threadjack just to find out why Fish got his ass beat by the pigs.
I too would find that an interesting answer.
And as for the alternate prom...I can understand trying to make the school board "do the right thing" ultimately it's about getting this senior class their prom and letting everyone participate as they want....you can't win a war in one battle. Let them have a prom even if it's not school sponosored as they should and let everyone particiate and fight the bigger fight outside those boundries.
this whole situation is a no-win for everyone involved. The kids don't get a genuine "rite of passage" prom, the girl will never have a hope of acceptance in the town or the school, and the narrow-minded redneck adults (be they parents, educators, holier than thou do-gooders or any combination thereof) can continue to wallow in their narrowmindedness.
I lived in a town in North Georgia a few years ago that had a similar flap when a group of students wanted to start a "gay/straight alliance" club at school, generally to foster acceptance of diverse lifestyles. The community acted as if they were going to be promoting gay sex in the halls, because the action of the school board was to cancel ALL clubs that were not strictly curriculum related (like Spanish Club, etc.).
I can't imagine what it must be like to know from a fairly early age that you had leanings toward the same sex and know that to openly admit it would risk being marginalized in society.
I want to threadjack just to find out why Fish got his ass beat by the pigs.
Now that would be a threadjack worth reading.
As for the alternate prom, I agree with you Bama, the kids should get a prom one way or the other. But it's possible that an alternate prom might exclude this girl and her date (this is something she said in an article I read). On the other hand, several gay rights groups have offered to sponsor the prom, but you have to wonder how many parents would keep their kids away from a perceived "gay" prom. Seems to me the only way for there to be a real "win" in this situation would be for the school to step up and do the right thing.
I want to threadjack just to find out why Fish got his ass beat by the pigs.
Now that would be a threadjack worth reading.
As for the alternate prom, I agree with you Bama, the kids should get a prom one way or the other. But it's possible that an alternate prom might exclude this girl and her date (this is something she said in an article I read). On the other hand, several gay rights groups have offered to sponsor the prom, but you have to wonder how many parents would keep their kids away from a perceived "gay" prom. Seems to me the only way for there to be a real "win" in this situation would be for the school to step up and do the right thing.
I agree that it should ONLY be an alternative prom that supports ALL rights of ALL students to be who they are and represent their values as they see fit. If it bars anyone based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religious belief or any other EEO principals that come from Federal Regulations governing work and school ethics then it should NOT happen and be representative of the the community and schoold district. If there is a body in the community willing to sponsor such a prom/activity to embrace that ideal then I think it is in the best interest of the community, children and ovrall population to go forward to foster an understanding and commitment to doing the right thing in one case and then working to backfill how to make that happen on a broader level withing the community. If not, then there is a serious breakdown in said community about what is and is NOT right about their immediate community.
Post by benrdsknrd on Mar 23, 2010 18:50:44 GMT -5
Every time I went to prom in high school, there were always female couples who attended together. No one cared, and no one gave it a second thought. I don't know what their sexual preferences were, and it wasn't any of my business. I think that many of these so-called conservatives are really the ones who have a problem. I mean seriously, why in the world are adult members of a school board SO preoccupied with how this teenager gets off? To be quite honest, there's not much that concerns me LESS... than how someone ELSE gets off. Really, if you're not breaking any laws, and you're not hurting anyone, then who cares? I'd bet that if WE knew anything about the sex lives of those school board members, there might be a few things that some people may find a little odd. The only difference is, they haven't told anyone their preferences. And most people probably wouldn't care. This young lady from Mississippi has been open and honest, not to mention brave, only to have the school board take what should have been a molehill and turn it into a mountain. A shame. But kudos to the young lady for standing up for what she knows is right.
Now the private dance has been cancelled because it had the same rules as the school sponsored dance and apparently the parents are afraid of being sued.
"Byrd said the private prom had adopted the same rules as the school-sponsored prom. McMillen could have attended, but she could not bring her girlfriend as her date and had to wear a dress."
Now the private dance has been cancelled because it had the same rules as the school sponsored dance and apparently the parents are afraid of being sued.
They just don't get it, do they?
I also really, really enjoyed this at the end of the article: In her suit, McMillen has asked the court to officially declare her rights had been violated. She is seeking $1 in damages. I'm glad to see she's not attaching dollar signs to her stand against this.
I didn't see it formally mentioned in what was being sought in the lawsuit, but I certainly hope there's something to make this district change this policy. Admitting you violated rights and paying a dollar doesn't quite make that happen... just says they were wrong that one time, but unwilling to change the rules.
Like it or not, guys, this could be any one of our kids. It doesn't matter how they are raised or what your beliefs as parents are. It doesn't matter whether they grow up in a rural area, small town or big city. Some kids, and some people, are just gay. And I can't imagine any worse pain as a parent than having your child persecuted and denied rights because of something that they have no control over.
The ultimate irony would be if one of these right-wing idiots found out one day that one of their own children was gay. It's certainly statistically possible.
"Do I agree with that lifestyle?" she said, referring to McMillen's homosexuality. "No, because I'm a blood-bought child of the King. But I'm not going to condemn her. It's not our job to judge. We are taught (in the Bible) if we judge somebody, we will be judged by the same measure."
"Do I agree with that lifestyle?" she said, referring to McMillen's homosexuality. "No, because I'm a blood-bought child of the King. But I'm not going to condemn her. It's not our job to judge. We are taught (in the Bible) if we judge somebody, we will be judged by the same measure."
I wasn't aware there was a faction of the First Elvis Church in Mississippi! The King bought my blood a long time ago.
"Do I agree with that lifestyle?" she said, referring to McMillen's homosexuality. "No, because I'm a blood-bought child of the King. But I'm not going to condemn her. It's not our job to judge. We are taught (in the Bible) if we judge somebody, we will be judged by the same measure."
I wasn't aware there was a faction of the First Elvis Church in Mississippi! The King bought my blood a long time ago.
funny - that was kind of the thought that went through my mind
Constance McMillen, Fake Prom? Itawamba Dance Was Kept Secret From Lesbian Teen
A lesbian teen who successfully sued her Mississippi school for the right to bring her girlfriend to prom was left out and was instead directed to a "fake prom" on Friday, according to The Advocate.
Constance McMillen, her date and just a handful of others, including two classmates with learning disabilities, attended the dance in Fulton, Mississippi while most of her other classmates from Itawamba Agricultural High School reportedly partied at a separate prom that McMillen was not invited to.
McMillen made headlines just a few weeks ago when, with the help of the ACLU, she fought the school's decision to cancel prom. The school canceled the dance after McMillen sought to bring her girlfriend and to wear a tuxedo.
As part of a preliminary ruling, a judge decided that McMillen was allowed to bring a girl as a date. The judge did not order the school to reinstate the prom because it was understood that McMillen would be invited to a prom being held by parents of her Itawamba classmates. Instead, that prom was canceled and was replaced with the sparsely attended country club event.
Kristy Bennett, the ACLU's legal director for Mississippi, told NEMS360, that she was disappointed.
"Whatever we find will be brought to the court's attention," Bennett told NEMS. "Whether it is in the damages trial, or whatever. There will still be a trial on the merits. The case didn't end in the preliminary hearing."
McMillen, 18, said that her feelings were hurt, but that there was at least one good thing about the night. The Advocate:
Two students with learning difficulties were among the seven people at the country club event, McMillen recalls. "They had the time of their lives," McMillen says. "That's the one good thing that come out of this, [these kids] didn't have to worry about people making fun of them [at their prom]."
I don't know that I would call it a "fake prom" - seems from that story that two proms were held on the same night. Constance was told about one of them. She attended one of them and the majority of the students went to another one.
It may seem callous of me - but she got a prom. I don't see how she was discriminated against in this instance. She can't force her classmates to attend a prom with her.
And the story does not really provide enough details to form an opinion one way or the other. The other prom may have been a private affair that was invitation only. She can call that discrimiation if she wants but she needs to learn that stuff like that happens all through life.
I can't sue the White House because they have a dinner and I don't get an invite. Greeks on campuses have parties all the time - normally you have to be on a fraternity or sorority to attend those. Should people start suinig them for not including the whole college campus?
