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Post by nitetimeritetime on Mar 31, 2009 17:15:34 GMT -5
What makes America great is that we have processes in place that can solve our problems.
For example, almost everybody on this thread, and Americans in general, seem to know that the healthcare industry in our country is seriously, deeply flawed. It is failing millions of Americans. We have the highest rate of infant mortality of any industrialized nation in the world. Nearly 50 million Americans do not have access to adequate healthcare -- this is in the richest country in the world. Even people like me, justmeg, and Clato, who have insurance, have problems getting and/or affording healthcare.
We may not agree on the proper solution to the problem, but it seems that most of us agree that there are problems here to be addressed.
What makes America great is that we have a system of government that can address these problems and try to fix them. What makes America great is that we get to discuss and debate these issues and then vote for representatives who will try to enact policies we support.
Saying "America is Great!" is not what makes America great, and solves nothing. Using our system to make America better is, and has for some 200 years been what makes America great.
What makes America great is that we have processes in place that can solve our problems.
For example, almost everybody on this thread, and Americans in general, seem to know that the healthcare industry in our country is seriously, deeply flawed. It is failing millions of Americans. We have the highest rate of infant mortality of any industrialized nation in the world. Nearly 50 million Americans do not have access to adequate healthcare -- this is in the richest country in the world. Even people like me, justmeg, and Clato, who have insurance, have problems getting and/or affording healthcare.
We may not agree on the proper solution to the problem, but it seems that most of us agree that there are problems here to be addressed.
What makes America great is that we have a system of government that can address these problems and try to fix them. What makes America great is that we get to discuss and debate these issues and then vote for representatives who will try to enact policies we support.
Saying "America is Great!" is not what makes America great, and solves nothing. Using our system to make America better is, and has for some 200 years been what makes America great.
You have intentionally misunderstood my point in an effort to be correct...I feel sorry for people like you.
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
on another topic, why is it that the obama administration is deciding not to call terrorists terrorists? why are we no longer allowed to use the phrase "war on terror"? now, its man-made catastrophes. i guess that means 9/11 wasnt an act of terror, but rather a man-made catastrophe. i guess the whole 9/11 commision report will have to be rewritten now.
Am I just being too simplistic here when I say 'who the hell cares?' I mean... it's just a name. A terminology. A euphemism, if you will. It's not like they're banning the word "terrorist" and anybody who is caught speaking of such heresy is arrested and thrown in jail.
Personally, I kinda like the ring to man-made catastrophe. It sounds way more devastating than acts of terrorism... atleast to me
I actually think it's a good thing to change up terminology every so often. Words lose their meaning if said too much.
The Bush administration scrapped the use of "weapons of mass destruction" after they weren't found and that whole embarrassment ensued, but the positive thing was that we didn't have that catch phrase anymore.
And to bring up another instance of words losing their meaning, that's the argument for keeping "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. It was added as an anti-Communist thing and now I often hear it argued that it should remain because it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Which, frankly, should enrage both sides of the issue.
What makes America great is that we have processes in place that can solve our problems.
For example, almost everybody on this thread, and Americans in general, seem to know that the healthcare industry in our country is seriously, deeply flawed. It is failing millions of Americans. We have the highest rate of infant mortality of any industrialized nation in the world. Nearly 50 million Americans do not have access to adequate healthcare -- this is in the richest country in the world. Even people like me, justmeg, and Clato, who have insurance, have problems getting and/or affording healthcare.
We may not agree on the proper solution to the problem, but it seems that most of us agree that there are problems here to be addressed.
What makes America great is that we have a system of government that can address these problems and try to fix them. What makes America great is that we get to discuss and debate these issues and then vote for representatives who will try to enact policies we support.
Saying "America is Great!" is not what makes America great, and solves nothing. Using our system to make America better is, and has for some 200 years been what makes America great.
You have intentionally misunderstood my point in an effort to be correct...I feel sorry for people like you.
FYI...We are tiny specs in this universe
I agree with nitetimeritetime. Much more so than the confuzzling baseball analogy.
Over 1/3 bankruptcies in America are do to medical bills-This is a national crisis and many start up companies fail because providing insurance to their employees can be expensive.
I actually listened to a news program the other night on CNN, and they stated that roughly half of bankrupcies filed each year are due to medical bills. And what is even worse is that a majority of those people had some type of insurance. I think that is a sad, sad state of affairs. I have BC/BS, and every time I go to the dentist they're asking me why BC/BS never paid them for the last visit, so then I have to go calling them. It's sooo aggravating!!!! And I know mental health agencies like dealing with medicaid (as opposed to private companies) b/c they always get paid, and they get paid even more for case managing people on medicaid as well...so they love it and are always advocatng for people to be "case managed" (b/c that = more money from Medicaid). Everyone should watch Sicko. Hope it angers you as much as it did me.
2012 Wishlist: Radiohead Phish Daft Punk Ghostland Observatory Broken Social Scene Roger Waters Bell X1 Bonobo Chemical Brothers Fiona Apple Built to Spill Modest Mouse
You have intentionally misunderstood my point in an effort to be correct...I feel sorry for people like you.
FYI...We are tiny specs in this universe
I don't think I misunderstood your point at all. And if I did it certainly wasn't intentional. Maybe you can try explaining it again, minus the condescension.
Well if nobody had insurance the Doctors would be forced to treat people at a reasonable rate. The disparity between charges to an insurance company, and those to someone without insurance is almost 200%. This is what shuts people out of healthcare.
I used to have catastrophic health insurance. Which means that my insurance wouldn't pay anything less than $10k I believe (I forget the exact dollar amount). I had an MRI a couple of years ago and when I told the hospital that I wouldn't be going through insurance and instead pay with my credit card they cut the bill in half. I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but it seems like doctors/hospitals have no problem porking the insurance companies for extra $.
This is true. I had a friend who worked in a billing office, and she said it is because it is so hard to get insurance companies to pay the full amount on a bill, so they charge them more in hopes of them paying, say, half of it. It's the same way with car insurance. I got some body work done on my car, and when they realized I would be paying out of pocket, they lowered the cost!!!!!!
2012 Wishlist: Radiohead Phish Daft Punk Ghostland Observatory Broken Social Scene Roger Waters Bell X1 Bonobo Chemical Brothers Fiona Apple Built to Spill Modest Mouse
I'm not one of those America Quack Yeah folk with a big truck and a flag, etc...but when I see all of this bickering about welfare people sitting on their a$$es and not working when a VAST majority are trying to get themselves up, and how bad our health system is when no matter what you will NEVER be turned down in an emergency makes me think we haven't really moved past the Clinton & Bush era of taking the extreme and making a point, it saddens me, and when people above else just want to be correct it saddens me more. My analogy was to remind people above else you are pushing buttons that sends electricity to this crazy thing called the internet and others are doing the same...you don't have it as bad as you think.
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
Post by nitetimeritetime on Mar 31, 2009 17:53:52 GMT -5
Actually people ARE denied life saving treatment all the time in this country.
And it's not the exception to the rule. The act of denying legitimate claims is so widespread in the insurance industry that one might call it their business model. It is so widespread, in fact, that three states have passed laws to make it illegal for insurance companies to pay bonuses to employees if they meet a quota for denying claims. Thirteen other states have had to pass laws making it illegal for insurance companies to pay doctors bonuses for deny patients healthcare.
Finally, you really have no idea how "bad I have it," but I'm pretty sure I've never said I have it that bad. In fact, I've said I have it pretty good. My wife is a cancer survivor, has a job she loves, and is able to get healthcare because of it. If she didn't have that job (and that insurance) she would be dead right now, so I'm well aware of how good I have it, thanks. I want everyone else like me to be able to say the same thing, and right now that just isn't the case in America.
Sure, other people in the world are worse off than most of us participating in this thread. But they're not worse off than Americans who are dead because they were denied healthcare. Other countries being worse off is really irrelevant to this discussion, and it certainly doesn't mean we should just sit back and do nothing about the very real problems that our country faces.
You have intentionally misunderstood my point in an effort to be correct...I feel sorry for people like you.
FYI...We are tiny specs in this universe
I don't think I misunderstood your point at all. And if I did it certainly wasn't intentional. Maybe you can try explaining it again, minus the condescention.
The US does NOT have the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world that’s an internet rumor. You used that statement to prove a point that we are not a great country. You use internet rumors so caviler it saddens me…get it right then talk, don't talk to get it right.
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
Actually people ARE denied life saving treatment all the time in this country.
And it's not the exception to the rule. The act of denying legitimate claims is so widespread in the insurance industry that one might call it their business model. It is so widespread, in fact, that three states have passed laws to make it illegal for insurance companies to pay bonuses to employees if they meet a quota for denying claims. Thirteen other states have had to pass laws making it illegal for insurance companies to pay doctors bonuses for deny patients healthcare.
Finally, you really have no idea how "bad I have it," but I'm pretty sure I've never said I have it that bad. In fact, I've said I have it pretty good. My wife is a cancer survivor, has a job she loves, and is able to get healthcare because of it. If she didn't have that job (and that insurance) she would be dead right now, so I'm well aware of how good I have it, thanks. I want everyone else like me to be able to say the same thing, and right now that just isn't the case in America.
Sure, other people in the world are worse off. So? That's really irrelevant to this discussion, and it certainly doesn't mean we should just sit back and do nothing about the very real problems that our country faces.
That's awesome that your wife kick the crap out of that awful thing they call cancer. Albeit difficult you made it though, the paperwork, the payments, the doctors visits...because our system is amazing...that's all I care about, yes we have problems, yes we can solve them and get better, my original point was to explain to people that there are cases like yours that are seldom talked about. I would venture to say your situation is more the rule then the exception...now lets' have a beer
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
You know it really gets me when people make exceptions to the the rule, as the rule, and make stances on that. I would like to leave you all with this sports analogy...last year the Toronto BlueJays had the best pitching, the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim had the most wins, and the Chicago Cubs had the best hitting, yet it was the Philadelphia Phillies who won the world series, why, because the sum of the parts is what makes champions. Sure we might not have the best healthcare system, or the best education system, or the best political system, but the sum of Americas parts makes us the greatest country on earth.
I don't think anyone was disputing whether we're in a great country or not. Perhaps what you were speaking to was the overwhelming majority trying to address a handful of folks who'd have us all believe that the system is rife with n'er do wells who want to feed off of the rest of us.
By the way, it's spelled cavalier, and nitetime has been anything but cavalier. Do your fellow posters the courtesy of at least checking your own posts before you go knocking theirs.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Mar 31, 2009 18:11:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have said "higher infant mortality rate than any First World coutry." That is a fact, as reported by the CIA.
Your little lecture on "getting it right" notwithstanding, it looks like you're the one misunderstanding things. I didn't use that fact to point out that America is not a great country. In fact, I repeatedly said America IS a great country. That doesn't mean we're perfect, and it doesn't mean we don't have problems. Acknowledging our problems is the first step to solving them.
BTW...just for everyone...personally I am in favor of having a single payer system...Yes I believe socialized medicine is the way to go...bar none
Sass...I'm sorry I misspelled cavalier...but is he correct in saying that the US has the highest mortality rate? I'm not trying to stand up for others or make fun of others...please acknowledge that
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
Yeah because when I think of accurate information, I think CIA...can we move on? Yes we have a ton to work on, never have I said otherwise, but you are flat ass wrong when you say give that stat, I'm just trying to be fair to everybody...
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
on another topic, why is it that the obama administration is deciding not to call terrorists terrorists? why are we no longer allowed to use the phrase "war on terror"? now, its man-made catastrophes. i guess that means 9/11 wasnt an act of terror, but rather a man-made catastrophe. i guess the whole 9/11 commision report will have to be rewritten now.
Am I just being too simplistic here when I say 'who the hell cares?' I mean... it's just a name. A terminology. A euphemism, if you will. It's not like they're banning the word "terrorist" and anybody who is caught speaking of such heresy is arrested and thrown in jail.
Personally, I kinda like the ring to man-made catastrophe. It sounds way more devastating than acts of terrorism... atleast to me
my belief is that the words used DO matter. we can all agree that the columbine and virginia tech incidents were man-made catastrophes, but they were no acts of terror. 9/11 was also a man-made catastrophe, but it WAS an act of terror. so were all the embassy bombings, and the attack on the (forgive if i have the wrong ship) uss cole .
so, yes, i do believe that the way we phrase things has an impact what it is describing.
kind of like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.
That's awesome that your wife kick the crap out of that awful thing they call cancer.
On this point we both agree.
my original point was to explain to people that there are cases like yours that are seldom talked about. I would venture to say your situation is more the rule then the exception...now lets' have a beer
Well, then I guess I did misunderstand that part. My bad. And my apologies for the condescension in my last post. This is an issue that hits close to home for me, for obvious reasons, and it's something I care a lot about.
And I could definitely use a beer right about now.
I knew what he meant when he made that statement, and he clarified it above. n8man, perhaps you didn't mean it the way it reads, but "i feel sorry for people like you" is condescending and adds nothing to the conversation. We were having a relatively civil discussion which veered slightly off topic (Obama's Health Care plan >>>> insurance), so I'm not even sure what the point of your first post here was.
And as far as the infant mortality rate goes, the US is behind every developed country in North America, Western Europe, and Australasia, as well as Cuba, Hungary, Israel, and the Czech Republic. We are in 28th place in the rankings as of 2008, that comes straight from the CDC, and it doesn't even account for the fact that many other countries do not keep scrupulous records on infant mortality. Sad.
That's awesome that your wife kick the crap out of that awful thing they call cancer.
On this point we both agree.
my original point was to explain to people that there are cases like yours that are seldom talked about. I would venture to say your situation is more the rule then the exception...now lets' have a beer
Well, then I guess I did misunderstand that part. My bad. And my apologies for the condescension in my last post. This is an issue that hits close to home for me, for obvious reasons, and it's something I care a lot about.
And I could definitely use a beer right about now.
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
I knew what he meant when he made that statement, and he clarified it above. n8man, perhaps you didn't mean it the way it reads, but "i feel sorry for people like you" is condescending and adds nothing to the conversation. We were having a relatively civil discussion which veered slightly off topic (Obama's Health Care plan >>>> insurance), so I'm not even sure what the point of your first post here was.
And as far as the infant mortality rate goes, the US is behind every developed country in North America, Western Europe, and Australasia, as well as Cuba, Hungary, Israel, and the Czech Republic. We are in 28th place in the rankings as of 2008, that comes straight from the CDC, and it doesn't even account for the fact that many other countries do not keep scrupulous records on infant mortality. Sad.
Where is Australasia? I'm sorry I couldn't resist...that was karma direct from the gods...
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
I knew what he meant when he made that statement, and he clarified it above. n8man, perhaps you didn't mean it the way it reads, but "i feel sorry for people like you" is condescending and adds nothing to the conversation. We were having a relatively civil discussion which veered slightly off topic (Obama's Health Care plan >>>> insurance), so I'm not even sure what the point of your first post here was.
And as far as the infant mortality rate goes, the US is behind every developed country in North America, Western Europe, and Australasia, as well as Cuba, Hungary, Israel, and the Czech Republic. We are in 28th place in the rankings as of 2008, that comes straight from the CDC, and it doesn't even account for the fact that many other countries do not keep scrupulous records on infant mortality. Sad.
Where is Australasia? I'm sorry I couldn't resist...that was karma direct from the gods...
Post by nitetimeritetime on Mar 31, 2009 18:34:37 GMT -5
The CIA World Factbook has a list of infant mortality rates by country. We're way down the list, which is good, but there is no other First World country ahead of us.
Don't believe the CIA? Fine.
The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) also reported our infant mortality rate, and it is much the same as the CIA's report.
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
I'm the opposite of moderate, immaculately polished With the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics Articulate but still would grab a ni**a by the colla quick
Am I just being too simplistic here when I say 'who the hell cares?' I mean... it's just a name. A terminology. A euphemism, if you will. It's not like they're banning the word "terrorist" and anybody who is caught speaking of such heresy is arrested and thrown in jail.
Personally, I kinda like the ring to man-made catastrophe. It sounds way more devastating than acts of terrorism... atleast to me
my belief is that the words used DO matter. we can all agree that the columbine and virginia tech incidents were man-made catastrophes, but they were no acts of terror. 9/11 was also a man-made catastrophe, but it WAS an act of terror. so were all the embassy bombings, and the attack on the (forgive if i have the wrong ship) uss cole .
so, yes, i do believe that the way we phrase things has an impact what it is describing.
kind of like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.
I see whatcha mean and where you're coming from. I guess I'm just of the belief that not many people, if any at all really, would ever confuse the underlying intentions of the different examples you provided. I mean, a man-made catastrophe could be against a country, political system or religion, or a group of individuals. It really doesn't seem like a big deal at all to me, and as everyone probably agrees, there are far bigger concerns out there in this world.
This would be classified under "pet peeves" in my book as opposed to a "political issue"
^^^but i really dont believe that it is a pet-peeve. it lessens the meaning of the acts. basically, it's a way of helping people forget about bush (which many of you would like, and me to an extent). it helps people forget that there really are extremists out there, that intend to do us harm. the taliban released a statement just yesterday, or today, where they stated they will attack washington soon (i guess biden had it right when he said that obama would be tested soon into his presidency).
maybe it is something trivial to bring up, but it will have consequences
with regards to the "weapons of mass destruction" phrase being changed, what was it changed to? i believe that due to the fact that no wmds were found, they just dropped the whole phrase all together. it wasnt that they changed it to something else. that is what i am talking about--sugar-coating something so you can please the world. that never happened with wmds
As many of you know, I am usually the first to jump in on political thread but am sitting this one out just because I've discussed all of this before and I am just not in the mood (for probably the first time in my life.) Not saying y'all shouldn't continue or anything though...
But I thought I'd mention that PBS' Frontline is having a show tonight on our healthcare system and its future that may be good. I can't say for sure but the last one they did was amazing. It basically just explained the various different systems worldwide, along with their benefits and faults. It was an amazingly comprehensive look at the myriad of approaches. Everyone should see that one.
Just thought this one might be good to watch too.
Now back to the debate.
EDIT: Here's a link to the previous program. Watch it if you've got an hour or so.
^^^but i really dont believe that it is a pet-peeve. it lessens the meaning of the acts. basically, it's a way of helping people forget about bush (which many of you would like, and me to an extent). it helps people forget that there really are extremists out there, that intend to do us harm. the taliban released a statement just yesterday, or today, where they stated they will attack washington soon (i guess biden had it right when he said that obama would be tested soon into his presidency).
maybe it is something trivial to bring up, but it will have consequences
with regards to the "weapons of mass destruction" phrase being changed, what was it changed to? i believe that due to the fact that no wmds were found, they just dropped the whole phrase all together. it wasnt that they changed it to something else. that is what i am talking about--sugar-coating something so you can please the world. that never happened with wmds
I guess that's just where we're gonna disagree then... I can't understand how this will cause people to forget who was behind 9/11 and other similar attacks nationwide. Just because this phrase was changed doesn't mean people aren't gonna remember who Osama Bin Laden is, or that the Taliban exists.
And I sure as hell refuse to believe that it will actually have any significant consequences in the world, other than perhaps using up my time discussing it that I should be devoting towards writing a paper instead