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Operation Ivy would be the shizzz but you lost me with Weezer and green day. I really really hope it doesn't come to green day, the maturity level of roo would drop significantly. The offspring is less bad, I enjoy some of their stuff. I'm the jerk who always challenges people's definitions of punk. But maybe y'all will agree. Punk is definitely NOT about playin three chords fast with a whiny voice or even shouting. It is an ethic that is most manifested in the pit. As the frontman for Anti Flag said at a show a couple years ago: if someone falls you pick them up! This was definitely apparent at the flogging molly show. It's a no bull shiz attitude and a community focused ethos. Some of the most punk bands ever that sound nothing like the pop of Green day are Patty Smith, the pogues, the Andrew Jackson jihad, the violent femmes. (all of them still playing) heck I generally agree with argument that punk was born with the Stones ( Rolling Stones that is) or even Hank Williams. I definitely think we need to be promoting punk bands that cultivate the punk ethos (which is an ethos that compliments the ethos of roo) rather than pop bands that play an allegedly punk sound.
ha i'm not saying weezer is punk. i'm saying i could see the offspring (who could be argued as punk) playing the same slot that weezer played in '10. weezer's not punk. no way.
but that's what all "punks" say at all punk shows though. that's just common sense/ courtesy to look out for your peeps. AND anti-flag is all against cooperate bs and stuff right... then why are the playing warped tour (the most cooperate cess pool of shiz in the country) and makin all these major deals and crap. to me, that's not punk. at least a band like green day that's cashin in on the sound aren't a bunch of hipocrits. i understand the hate they get (i guess). but think about it from back when they blew up. they're a type of music made for and by slackers. their lyrics deal with slacker-related themes and i think punk is a about (among other things) an "i don't give a fuck" attitude- the same attitude that was felt throughout the mid-early 90s with grunge going around. this is just a slightly brighter version of those ideals. green day was just a bunch of slackers (with an ear for pop) that got lucky. if it wasn't for them and their popularity do you really think bands like rancid, the bouncing souls, social d, even flogging molly would still be around? hell no. green day squeezed the sound in the "mainstream" minds and made a niche for others to cash in on. have you seen a show? they played for 2 hours and 45 mins last time i saw em and kept the crowd in the palm of the hands the whole time. they've progressed to a helleva rock outfit.
the definition of punk is always a fuzzy thing. nobody knows. they're really just angrier hippies. but to me i need some energy in the tunes. the bands you listed all sound good, but it sounds like folk to me. ccr is more "punk" than this, but you could consider bob dylan punk too and still be right. weird, huh?
just curious. what do you think of the clash? or ramones?
Dayum I had heard murmurs that the femmes were at it.
Also hopefully I don't come across as a jerk I just love having dialgoues about what punk is. I never made any claims about anti flag and their corporate connections. I'm not one who would say that punk status relies on being totally underground. What green day lacks is a true community of fans. Now I'm sure that they have tons of very very loyal fans, but it's not the same I would argue as the fan base of say the Ramones. As you said punks are like angry hippies. Many punks identify with a certain band like wooks and Phish. As I mentioned before being corporate has nothing to do with punk status. The Ramones and clash are the shiz. I don't care if they are famous. I definitely would say that punk tends to be much more proactive than green day, it's not slacker music. Do you think lazy slackers DIY? Also flogging Molly owes debt to The dubliners and the pogues not green day. Green Day is indebted to bad religion. Green day didn't pave the way The Ramones did more so arguably. Before them you have the stones and other bands. My list is somewhat folky, but operates well under my definition of punk as an ethos not three chord agressive pop. I can't deny that Green Day doesn't know how to rock a show, but they just don't cut it. At least they're better than blink 182. But to attribute green day as the driving force that brought punk into mainstream would be a gross miss statement. You mentioned the 90s so what about Nirvana? You can't create a duality between folk and punk. Punk is not a sound. Even if it is a sound that sound didn't just pop out of nowhere but is part of a larger musical context. So yes Bob Dylan is in there somewhere.
Note: I jump from Ramones back to the Rolling Stones, those are just examples there is sooooooooo much between them that helped bring punk into the worlds eye. The stones and the who really transformed rock. And the Ramones were huge in their time. Really you can't separate punk from experimentation in jazz in the 30s or modernist minimalism that emerged in the 40s (though really even earlier). Punk is part of a larger context of experimentation in music aka the entire human history of music. So the lines definitely get blurred.
Iggy and The Stooges Refused Cap'n Jazz Hot Water Music F*cked Up Titus Andronicus Cloud Nothings Crash of Rhinos Kidcrash (probably never happen) Thee Oh Sees The Men Native Oathbreaker Unsane
i doubt fat mike will be back at bonnaroo. there were like 50 people in the tent at nofx when they played.
ha i'm not saying weezer is punk. i'm saying i could see the offspring (who could be argued as punk) playing the same slot that weezer played in '10. weezer's not punk. no way.
but that's what all "punks" say at all punk shows though. that's just common sense/ courtesy to look out for your peeps. AND anti-flag is all against cooperate bs and stuff right... then why are the playing warped tour (the most cooperate cess pool of shiz in the country) and makin all these major deals and crap. to me, that's not punk. at least a band like green day that's cashin in on the sound aren't a bunch of hipocrits. i understand the hate they get (i guess). but think about it from back when they blew up. they're a type of music made for and by slackers. their lyrics deal with slacker-related themes and i think punk is a about (among other things) an "i don't give a fuck" attitude- the same attitude that was felt throughout the mid-early 90s with grunge going around. this is just a slightly brighter version of those ideals. green day was just a bunch of slackers (with an ear for pop) that got lucky. if it wasn't for them and their popularity do you really think bands like rancid, the bouncing souls, social d, even flogging molly would still be around? hell no. green day squeezed the sound in the "mainstream" minds and made a niche for others to cash in on. have you seen a show? they played for 2 hours and 45 mins last time i saw em and kept the crowd in the palm of the hands the whole time. they've progressed to a helleva rock outfit.
the definition of punk is always a fuzzy thing. nobody knows. they're really just angrier hippies. but to me i need some energy in the tunes. the bands you listed all sound good, but it sounds like folk to me. ccr is more "punk" than this, but you could consider bob dylan punk too and still be right. weird, huh?
just curious. what do you think of the clash? or ramones?
Dayum I had heard murmurs that the femmes were at it.
Also hopefully I don't come across as a jerk I just love having dialgoues about what punk is. I never made any claims about anti flag and their corporate connections. I'm not one who would say that punk status relies on being totally underground. What green day lacks is a true community of fans. Now I'm sure that they have tons of very very loyal fans, but it's not the same I would argue as the fan base of say the Ramones. As you said punks are like angry hippies. Many punks identify with a certain band like wooks and Phish. As I mentioned before being corporate has nothing to do with punk status. The Ramones and clash are the shiz. I don't care if they are famous. I definitely would say that punk tends to be much more proactive than green day, it's not slacker music. Do you think lazy slackers DIY? Also flogging Molly owes debt to The dubliners and the pogues not green day. Green Day is indebted to bad religion. Green day didn't pave the way The Ramones did more so arguably. Before them you have the stones and other bands. My list is somewhat folky, but operates well under my definition of punk as an ethos not three chord agressive pop. I can't deny that Green Day doesn't know how to rock a show, but they just don't cut it. At least they're better than blink 182. But to attribute green day as the driving force that brought punk into mainstream would be a gross miss statement. You mentioned the 90s so what about Nirvana? You can't create a duality between folk and punk. Punk is not a sound. Even if it is a sound that sound didn't just pop out of nowhere but is part of a larger musical context. So yes Bob Dylan is in there somewhere.
i think i think punk is a sound. like reggae. or bluegrass. or drum n bass. but it also a mindset (like reggae). the thing is, what if someone comes out with some satanic-reggae. would it still be reggae? does that even make sense? lol
i know you didn't really draw claims of anti-flags cooperate connection. but their whole entire career is based on sticking it to the man and yet they are best friends with the man. to a lot of people, that is exploitation of punk ideals and doesn't fly. i like their music alright sometimes, but not how they do things. green day was what brought the 90s from crying, angry nirvana crap to a brighter enjoyment of life. nirvana was about crying about your problems. green day was about making light of your problems. i know bad religion (and others) paved the way for them (even though green day took their influences more from the west coast, more meladic sounds) but then it flipped and green day ended up helping bad relgion (etc) maintain decent careers. its like when the stones came to the us to record an album and muddy waters was working as like a maintenance man for the studio. sure he's the one that inspired the stones, but the stones were now paying his bills. the other punk bands probably would've still been around; but we probably wouldn't care as much about em if it wasn't for some force to keep the mainstream talking about that type of music to a degree. also, i personally can't stand the clash or ramones lol. it sounds like lo-fi poor mans attempt at pop garbage. utter trash to me. all of it.
ps. i don't think you're a jerk if you don't think i'm a jerk. writing these long-winded things can misconstrue vibes sometimes.
Heh heh I just hope we haven't ruined this thread. I'd be interested in what Garageland has to say.
I'm gonna be lazy (a slacker if you will) and not write much. I definitely see your points. Punk certainly is a Certain style of sound like bluegrass as you said, but doesn't the "Lo fi poor mans attempt at pop garbage" that you described the Ramones/clash sound as epitomize the punk "sound"?
I think Refused could play in a tent, given that it was a late night set up against other quality late night acts and not some cover band and a restaurant house jazz band.
My list. These are bands I would LOVE to see at Bonnaroo (some of which I am really disappointed Bonnaroo has not booked already):
Refused At the Drive-In Rancid Catch 22 Cloud Nothings Death From Above 1979 Descendents
(And yes, I know a lot of those are not EXACTLY punk, but I'll roll with it)
Need some more hardcore on the farm. From my recollection Dillinger Escape Plan is the only hardcore I can think of that's been on the farm, and no Bad Brains now doesn't count.
the definition of punk is always a fuzzy thing. nobody knows.
punk rock noun a type of rock-'n'-roll, reaching its peak in the late 1970s and characterized by loud, insistent music and abusive or violent protest lyrics, and whose performers and followers are distinguished by extremes of dress and socially defiant behavior. dictionary.com
punk noun "A guy walks up to me and asks 'What's Punk?'. So I kick over a garbage can and say 'That's punk!'. So he kicks over the garbage can and says 'That's Punk?', and I say 'No that's trendy!" urbandictionary.com
and my favorite excerpt, also from urbandictionary, this truth here is something we all need to remember... buy into this and it will help you in your day to day life, I promise.....:
"No-one is more punk than anyone else, if you turn it into a punkness competition then you aren't punk, plain and fucking simple, you're just a dicktard."
Post by fromthebark on Jun 19, 2012 8:35:58 GMT -5
I think mike Watt would be more than happy to do bonnaroo. I've never seen such a happy go lucky Guy that just simply wanted to play music... he'd probably love bonnaroo more than anyone whos ever been to bonnaroo. I love that man he's an inspiration.
Bad Religion!!!!!! (Dr. Greg Graffin is my hero) Propagandhi Boy Sets Fire Descendents or All Bouncing Souls Lagwagon ... also Less than Jake if they just played everything up to Hello Rockview
Post by roccoandhistaco on Jul 7, 2012 13:03:51 GMT -5
Would anyone else like some Ska at farm? I know ska is sometimes not considered real punk but personally i'd love to get The Aquabats, Less Than Jake, Streetlight Manifesto, Catch 22 or The Mighty Mighty Bosstones.
To me, Joy Division and The Fall are the quintessential post-punk bands. Whether or not you consider post-punk punk is a subjective assessment I suppose.
I do see The Fall as leaning more towards the punkier side of post-punk. And I would poo cinder blocks like a hurricane if they played roo.