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Post by chicagorooer on Jul 19, 2007 13:27:35 GMT -5
bos1969 said:
^^^actually - it is not that hard to support a soldier doing his job for his country and not support the war - there are thousands of soldiers over there that are doing their jobs like they are ordered to and they do not personally support the war - they are doing their job - the one they signed on to do - whether they support the cause or not.
That is how you can support a soldier yet not support the war they are fighting.
If you cannot understand that or see that - then you are part of the current problem in this country. There are millions of people who support soldiers - by helping their families while they are gone, caring for children - but that does not mean they have to support the damn war that the politicians got us involved in and refuse to get us out of - and that's the bottom line - you don't have to agree with - I don't give a nuts if you do or not -
but how dare you say that youhave to support a war in order to support the soldiers. I work at a VA Medical Center and hate the f**king war - but I damn sure do support my soldiers every single damn day.
do u tell them what they are doing over seas is unjust? You support the soldier but not there goals or mission? I don;t see the support
I support my soldiers by doing my job - I don't have to tell them that it is unjust - I hear that from them everyday - from the young ones that have just returned to the old vets who fought in previous wars. I hear everyday that this is a war we should not be fighting. Yet our soldiers continue to do the job they signed up for and are paid to do - and they do it because that is their job.
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 19, 2007 13:32:35 GMT -5
chicagorooer said:
do u tell them what they are doing over seas is unjust? You support the soldier but not there goals or mission? I don;t see the support
What exactly do you think their goal or mission is? Personally, I think their goal is to end the war. That's probably what they want the most, and it's what I want them to do. That doesn't mean that I'm glad they are over there being shot at and having to return fire. I don't support the reason why they were originally shipped over there, which is what I consider "the war"
I'm tired of the closed mindedness.... My 2 cents has been expired in this thread. Enjoy.
Post by chicagorooer on Jul 19, 2007 13:34:35 GMT -5
for example,
I don't support the drug laws but I do support the police who arrest me. they are just doing there jobs..this is your argument....I don;t support the drug war therfore would never support there actions of arresting people for drugs...seems logical to me. this is my point
Post by oleander124 on Jul 19, 2007 13:34:39 GMT -5
CR, would you rather those of us that don't support the war crap on the soldiers for doing something they are forced to do? That way you could call us unpatriotic, right?
We've had this discussion before differentiating the mission from the soldiers so I won't rehash it. Look back over old posts but briefly the soldiers follow orders (as it should and must be). We, the people of a civilian controlled miltary, decide the mission. It is our DUTY to object to a false mission as the soldier cannot.
We've had this discussion before differentiating the mission from the soldiers so I won't rehash it. Look back over old posts but briefly the soldiers follow orders (as it should and must be). We, the people of a civilian controlled miltary, decide the mission. It is our DUTY to object to a false mission as the soldier cannot.
'nuff said.
^^^yeah what he said
and I am with Strum - done with the thread now - see ya
It was long overdue, but CR won't be bothering us anymore.
If you read this Chicagorooer, you seem to have nothing positive to contribute to this board. All you do is go into political threads 99% of the time and start up with some close-minded merry-go-round logic. If you knew how to engage in a open debate, then that would be one thing. If you knew how to just state your side of things without enraging everyone and taking any and all political threads down the drain, you'd still be here. But you don't. I know what you'd say. That we're censoring views we don't like here or some BS like that. We're not doing that at all. We have a policy to censor people who can't play nice and get along. And that's you.
CR, would you rather those of us that don't support the war crap on the soldiers for doing something they are forced to do? That way you could call us unpatriotic, right?
.no one is forced. its no secret that our governent misuses our military might. theyve been doing it for decades. they all signed up to be a part of it. im sure most had noble intentions of defending america and not waging some moronic presidents crazy war in iraq that makes america less safe. thats why i do support them. i support bringing them home. i hope not 1 more soldier dies in iraq and i hope they dont kill 1 more iraqi on their way out. let the iraqis have a civil war and figure it out for themselves. it worked for us. and send these troops into pakistan and squash the organization that actually attacked us and is actually a threat to our security. id hate to see the reputations of our service men and women go down the crapper like that of law enforcement over yet another worthless and unwinnable war.
Post by oleander124 on Jul 19, 2007 14:58:18 GMT -5
dudewhersmyinforoo said:
oleander124 said:
CR, would you rather those of us that don't support the war crap on the soldiers for doing something they are forced to do? That way you could call us unpatriotic, right?
.no one is forced. its no secret that our governent misuses our military might. theyve been doing it for decades. they all signed up to be a part of it. im sure most had noble intentions of defending america and not waging some moronic presidents crazy war in iraq that makes america less safe. thats why i do support them. i support bringing them home. i hope not 1 more soldier dies in iraq and i hope they dont kill 1 more iraqi on their way out. let the iraqis have a civil war and figure it out for themselves. it worked for us. and send these troops into pakistan and squash the organization that actually attacked us and is actually a threat to our security. id hate to see the reputations of our service men and women go down the crapper like that of law enforcement over yet another worthless and unwinnable war.
I know soldiers that are sent against their will. I've heard the stories of soldiers that don't want to go (even go 2, 3 times) but are sent anyway. If that isn't forced, what is?
(edit: This is why I don't talk politics. I really have no clue what I'm talking about. I'm probably wrong and some aren't forced to go against their will.)
i see what your saying. they are forced to do something they might not otherwise do. but they signed away their free will when they enlisted. and they signed it away to a government that has a long history of misusing its enlisted men and women. they chose to do that. and i still say everyone still has the free will to refuse to kill people in an unjust war. there have been a few soldiers that have refused to do it. and they get court martialed and go to jail. which i can understand is not a very good option. but it seems better then dieing or killing in an unjust war. but i do feel for the people who signed up thinking they would be going after our enemies and are stuck policing a civil war to protect our puppet governent in iraq. and those that signed up for a certain amount of time and are forced to keep going back even after they serve their time. i think they put way too much faith in our disgusting politicians and are now in a bad spot. i hope they can get out of there soon.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2007 15:48:28 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
(edit: This is why I don't talk politics. I really have no clue what I'm talking about. I'm probably wrong and some aren't forced to go against their will.)
That is why I try to stay away from these threads also
Post by oleander124 on Jul 19, 2007 15:50:56 GMT -5
dudewhersmyinforoo said:
i see what your saying. they are forced to do something they might not otherwise do. but they signed away their free will when they enlisted. and they signed it away to a government that has a long history of misusing its enlisted men and women. they chose to do that. and i still say everyone still has the free will to refuse to kill people in an unjust war. there have been a few soldiers that have refused to do it. and they get court martialed and go to jail. which i can understand is not a very good option. but it seems better then dieing or killing in an unjust war. but i do feel for the people who signed up thinking they would be going after our enemies and are stuck policing a civil war to protect our puppet governent in iraq. and those that signed up for a certain amount of time and are forced to keep going back even after they serve their time. i think they put way too much faith in our disgusting politicians and are now in a bad spot. i hope they can get out of there soon.
but at least now we can maybe discuss these kinds of topics freely without CR chastising us for doing so.
As soon as I saw the story about the one dudes' "Gut feeling" that an attack could happen, "since they happen in the summer," I called shenanigans. It was pretty effing blatant that it was fear mongering, and ever since the ap ran that story, there have been these little stories about the Al Quaeda being Better, Faster, Stronger than ever.
So, what has this war on terrorism been good for, other than making more terrorists?
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Jul 19, 2007 16:59:57 GMT -5
indigo said:
So, what has this war on terrorism been good for, other than making more terrorists?
Making more money for the military industrial complex. Keeping oil and gas prices up. Spreading anti-American sentiment throughout the world. Eroding civil rights here in America.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly who all this is good for. It's certainly not the American people.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
^^^^ ahhh but supposedly it is good for the Iraqi people (if you listen to the press and the politicians - neither of which give the American people credit for having any intelligence)
Ole, there are plenty of soldiers who have been forced to go to Iraq against their will. It's called "stop-loss". I know of some who were schedule to get out of the service and were forced to remain for an extra tour (or two.)
There are also people who've been out of the service for years (or even decades) and called back, some in their sixties. Our military is stretched so thin that we are using lots of very questionable tactics to get troops to deploy.
On the other hand, of course, if you're gay. then you are run out of the military no matter how important your job. And I also know someone who didn't support Bush and was forced to retire early (at 27-28 years) so that he couldn't get his full 30 year pension.
Take care of your home, then take care of your neighbors. Then take on your enemy. The person who summed that up (i have lost track) finally put to words what has bugged me about it completely.
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
Post by oleander124 on Jul 20, 2007 7:28:04 GMT -5
troo said:
Ole, there are plenty of soldiers who have been forced to go to Iraq against their will. It's called "stop-loss". I know of some who were schedule to get out of the service and were forced to remain for an extra tour (or two.)
There are also people who've been out of the service for years (or even decades) and called back, some in their sixties. Our military is stretched so thin that we are using lots of very questionable tactics to get troops to deploy.
On the other hand, of course, if you're gay. then you are run out of the military no matter how important your job. And I also know someone who didn't support Bush and was forced to retire early (at 27-28 years) so that he couldn't get his full 30 year pension.
