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This last listen hit me like a train. I'm wrecked. Super emotional. It's amazing and probably tied with GKMC for my favorite Kendrick album. It's not an album for everyone, really I feel like most people don't have the emotional maturity to absorb something like this. That and, unlike Blond, it's not something that everyone can relate to. Parts here and there sure but the whole album is a raw emotional and mental take on Black trauma. Not like TPAB which was more about oppression, Mr. Morale is coping and grieving. I don't think people have to enjoy the sonic aspect of the album, but I hope people at least understand what it's for. The length of the album doesn't bother me anymore, feels like a smooth ride now. I think the sound itself is great now as well. I probably won't be able to put this album on a ton just because it's super heavy for me. But I'm glad we have this.
I put on The Heart 5 again after this last listen, it really wraps the whole album up and packages everything he expresses through it. The biggest thing that stuck out about the music video was how much emotion was expressed on Kendrick's face. His body language.
Only reason I'd put GKMC #1 is that I feel it can be played on any occasion. You can deep listen to it or just vibe to it and enjoy it just as much either way.
Ah man I have a lot of thoughts about Auntie Diaries but don't feel like writing a total novel. Might anyway.
I didn't get to the song on my first listen because Apple Music literally pulled the album while I was like four songs in (wtf), so I got to reading this thread before listening to it. Going into it I was fully prepared to be like "yeah I don't ever need to hear the F-slur again", which is still true. Been called it enough to still bristle when I hear other queer folk use it, and Auntie Diaries isn't an exception. Heard it first at work and my eyes went wiiiide. But I feel like Kendrick isn't the sort of artist who would at all put it in there without giving it deep consideration; he's self-aware enough to know the weight his songs carry as well as the weight of the slur.
My assumption is that the overall aim of the song is to shine light on how queer folk are generally treated by the Black community, specifically Black men, and then with the closing line to draw a parallel from that to how Black people are and have been treated by white people. Based on that assumption, the question for me is whether or not the slur is necessary to reach that aim or increases its impact. Firstly I think Kendrick is one of the most honest rappers we've seen, and I wonder if he felt he could maintain that degree of honesty if he omitted it. He's a storyteller, and to an extent to omitting it would be whitewashing his own mistakes. We see him grow from using the slur to "F-bomb" in the last verse; if he said "f-bomb" throughout the entire song, would he be able to get his point across without being preachy? I don't really think so. I feel like he's showing humility by being like "I used to do this shitty thing, I've grown from it, grow with me". He takes the listener on the journey with him from a youngster to an adult instead of solely speaking from the perspective he's at now, which I think is necessary for the song to have impact.
On the flipside: the word is offensive, and there will undoubtedly be some damage done by him using it, either by others directly being hurt from hearing it or it inciting others to use it. I don't know that it's his place to say "The hurt it may cause is ultimately worth it in the big picture", even if that statement ends up being true. The good would have to really outweigh the bad here, and it's far too early to tell how that's gonna pan out. In a sense Kendrick is risking others' well-being for a cause that could greatly benefit those same people if the song's impact is forceful and wide-reaching, which it could be. That's really tricky, it's not like he was able to poll the whole LGBTQ community beforehand to get their consent to that. I do think the song will give a lot of people a lot to think about though - the people who need to do some thinking in that arena. Who knows if that'll be enough to cause a major shift. But I don't think that people already committed to being trans/homophobic are going to be particularly emboldened by it in the long run - yeah they may weaponize the f-slur parts of it esp at first but if the song reaches its aim there'll be more people likely to call that out.
Totally not okay for him to deadname Caitlyn Jenner though.
Although aspects of the song brush up against my woke instincts, I think in the end it's premature to have a conversation about language before the offenders are even able to see trans folk as human. Kendrick is using his status as a well-respected Black man to humanize trans folk to other Black men, to help them begin to see a commonality (both groups being impacted/oppressed by hateful language). That's what someone in his position should be doing, and is ultimately commendable. I think his method to get there is a little too honest for a public release, which is the double-edged sword he finds himself holding. Everybody's going to be listening to this, Black men and LGBTQ folk alike. If he doesn't approach it with a high degree of honesty and humility, its impact is lessened, but if he does, others might get hurt by it. It's risky and it's messy, as this sort of thing often is.
Anyways album is dope
Last Edit: May 15, 2022 0:54:34 GMT -5 by Jaz - Back to Top
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
Totally not okay for him to deadname Caitlyn Jenner though.
Although aspects of the song brush up against my woke instincts, I think in the end it's premature to have a conversation about language before the offenders are even able to see trans folk as human. Kendrick is using his status as a well-respected Black man to humanize trans folk to other Black men, to help them begin to see a commonality (both groups being impacted/oppressed by hateful language). That's what someone in his position should be doing, and is ultimately commendable. I think his method to get there is a little too honest for a public release, which is the double-edged sword he finds himself holding. Everybody's going to be listening to this, Black men and LGBTQ folk alike. If he doesn't approach it with a high degree of honesty and humility, its impact is lessened, but if he does, others might get hurt by it. It's risky and it's messy, as this sort of thing often is.
Anyways album is dope
I have had conversations with my grandparents who still not only deadname Caitlyn Jenner, they use her old pronouns constantly. I can't even get into "she doesn't go by that name" with them, what's how blocked they are. You make an excellent point about recognizing the limitations and "bridge crossing" that needs to be done in order to make any progress.
Like, I'm still trying to convince certain co-workers not to refer to grown women as "girls". I had an old boss who I referred to his sons as "boys" and he said "They're in college, they're grown men". I said "Then why do you call the women you date girls?" He had some stupid excuse but yah he sucked. Some people are hella limited and need to be baby-stepped into better perspectives.
Post by jorgeandthekraken on May 15, 2022 16:18:10 GMT -5
I just really, really, want someone to ask him about the Kodak Black stuff, especially...I mean, he says "Let's give the women a break" on "Father Time," then *immediately* follows that with a Kodak Black feature on "Rich (Interlude)." I'd like to believe that an artist of his caliber wouldn't do something like that thoughtlessly, but if there's intention behind that sequence of events, what exactly is it? What's he trying to say, there? Because at face value, it kind of seems like talking out of both sides of your mouth: Give the women a break...and the rapists, too.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 5/14 - Neil Young & Crazy Horse @ Forest Hills 6/8 and maybe 6/9 - Governors Ball 8/17 - King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard @ Forest Hills 9/4 - Pearl Jam @ MSG 9/7 - Pearl Jam @ Wells Fargo Center 9/11 - St. Vincent @ Brooklyn Paramount
I just really, really, want someone to ask him about the Kodak Black stuff, especially...I mean, he says "Let's give the women a break" on "Father Time," then *immediately* follows that with a Kodak Black feature on "Rich (Interlude)." I'd like to believe that an artist of his caliber wouldn't do something like that thoughtlessly, but if there's intention behind that sequence of events, what exactly is it? What's he trying to say, there? Because at face value, it kind of seems like talking out of both sides of your mouth: Give the women a break...and the rapists, too.
I'd just be very interested in that conversation.
I'm totally out of the loop with Kodak's legal issues so I can't speak on that
But in terms of how Kodak's two verses (Rich Interlude and Silent Hill) fit into the concept of the album? Excellent in my opinion. Or at least how I interpret the album.
With the theme being "grieve different" and "Don't judge how we cope", Kodak's two verses really drove that home.
The way he fluctuates from speaking on a trauma experience -> expressing violence as a form of ptsd -> the material things as a coping mechanism, temporary joy -> recognizes he has to be better -> revisits more trauma -> angry again, violent -> temporary joy from money -> repeat
In theme of the album I think it's really well done. And maybe Kendrick thought it would be more organic to have someone like Kodak on it, because he likely actually struggles with it in real life? Just seems like he wanted to be 1000% raw on this album for better or worse (Kodak, Auntie Diaries)
The Father Time line, I think, is moreso related to giving women a break on having more responsibilities in child raising and overcompensating for the emotional issues that men have in the household. But I get what you're saying for sure. Just my interpretation, of the situation though. I hope someone asks him these questions too.
I’ve been listening to the album again tonight and “Auntie Diaries” has me hardcore crying. From my perspective, it’s the greatest pro Transgender song I’ve ever heard. It makes me think of my uncle and how much he has influenced my life.
Auntie Diaries is poignant. I feel like the line that is being discussed is an open acknowledgment of peoples’ past ignorance on that term. He’s openly saying we were stupid and didn’t know any better.
Super Gremlin being sprinkled throughout the album is great, and I’m a big fan of Silent Hill.
Kendrick’s definitely making a statement that he’s not going to completely write people off because of their mistakes, and I’m on board.
Post by Larry Farnsworth on May 16, 2022 8:27:16 GMT -5
Anyway, my general take is that the album is ambitious, messy, far-reaching, experimental, lyrically brilliant (as expected), but overstuffed and undercooked. I feel very comfortable placing it towards the bottom of Kendrick's discography, ahead of only untitled, unmastered. I get that people keep calling this his most "personal" album, and maybe that's accurate (I'd wager only Kendrick could answer that), but it also feels like he conciously set out to make an "important" album and I think that shows, to its detriment.
edit: I'm also already exhausted by the "if you don't like this you're probably just not smart enough/mature enough/empathetic enough etc." discourse.
Post by raftwithtaft on May 16, 2022 10:19:48 GMT -5
I would say that TPAB set out to be an important album as well. DAMN tried pretty hard to be something special too (maybe not as politically) and the compactness of the album probably helps it.
Whether the messaging and completeness of the ideas resonates with you is a personal thing. A lot of people making the “not mature enough” kinda arguments are probably directed more at the kind of person that would complain about the production and the lack of “lit bangers”. Hard to tell because people always go out of the way to find the embodiment of their antithesis online. Works both ways here because it seems like the majority are really enjoying this album, so people will naturally go out of their way to find arguments against it they don’t like.
Personally, I think Kendrick makes it clear that this album is largely about him and for his own catharsis. It’s a description - seemingly also part of the direct process - for how he’s finding peace in life. There’s a broader message of finding your own catharsis through honesty and openness, but I can see how someone might not resonate with the presentation or ideas. I think it’s implicitly acknowledged that these are messy conversations and he’s not going to have a perspective that everyone agrees. He just thinks it’s unhealthy on a personal level (and maybe a grand societal level as well) to just avoid the conversation or frame it in a way that’s dishonest to him just for likes or social clout.
Your opinion is how TPAB is for me personally. I enjoy the hell out of the production and a lot of the songs individually, but I prefer the overall presentation of ideas better on most of his other work. It’s just not for me. I’m probably in the minority but I’m ok with that. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’m stupid, emotionally immature, and love non-lit non-bangers.
I would say that TPAB set out to be an important album as well. DAMN tried pretty hard to be something special too (maybe not as politically) and the compactness of the album probably helps it.
Whether the messaging and completeness of the ideas resonates with you is a personal thing. A lot of people making the “not mature enough” kinda arguments are probably directed more at the kind of person that would complain about the production and the lack of “lit bangers”. Hard to tell because people always go out of the way to find the embodiment of their antithesis online. Works both ways here because it seems like the majority are really enjoying this album, so people will naturally go out of their way to find arguments against it they don’t like.
Personally, I think Kendrick makes it clear that this album is largely about him and for his own catharsis. It’s a description - seemingly also part of the direct process - for how he’s finding peace in life. There’s a broader message of finding your own catharsis through honesty and openness, but I can see how someone might not resonate with the presentation or ideas. I think it’s implicitly acknowledged that these are messy conversations and he’s not going to have a perspective that everyone agrees. He just thinks it’s unhealthy on a personal level (and maybe a grand societal level as well) to just avoid the conversation or frame it in a way that’s dishonest to him just for likes or social clout.
Your opinion is how TPAB is for me personally. I enjoy the hell out of the production and a lot of the songs individually, but I prefer the overall presentation of ideas better on most of his other work. It’s just not for me. I’m probably in the minority but I’m ok with that. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’m stupid, emotionally immature, and love non-lit non-bangers.
GKMC: most balanced in my opinion Big Steppers: Resonates with me the hardest
Section 80: I don't think it's "better" than the two listed below. But this album just makes me feel good for whatever reason. Probably the nostalgia factor. TPAB: I don't regard it as high as most, but it's still an excellent album. The concept isn't spectacular to me. The first 7 songs are 10/10 to me, but the second half has probably 4-5 songs I can skip. (Mortal Man sounds beautiful but some of the lyrics aged terribly. Like the MJ line.. in hindsight I guess he's def said wild things on record before) DAMN: The standout tracks are some of my favorites all time like Pride, XXX, DNA But there's 5 skippable tracks for me on a 12 track album not counting the intro
Untitled: Not really fair to rank this but I do love it. Untitled 5 is one of my favorite Kendrick tracks, I really wish there was a mastered version of it
As an LGBTQ guy, I love Auntie Diaries and consider it a very pro-trans song. I, also, am obsessed with the new album.
I still struggle hearing him (and many rappers) call women b*tches… I can see that it’s a reflection on his past, but it’s still hard to listen to him degrade women like that…
On the flip-side, how can we grow if we don’t face our past and confront our past mistakes? The songs maybe are not meant for people like me who squirm at certain words… but aimed at those who are walking in shoes he once walked in..
Sometimes music needs to be viewed in the lens of comedy -- and not in the way that calling women out their name is ok -- but that the choice of wording makes you squirm a little.
edit: Also I enjoy that he had a woman go out there and say "this is why we call you men b*tches". Everything feels very calculated.
Last Edit: May 17, 2022 9:35:52 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top