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Post by generaltso on Jan 25, 2022 12:04:42 GMT -5
To be a little fair to Founders, Bowery Presents/AXS has done an amazing job of booking a ton of quality acts for dates which would probably violate a radius clause
The War On Drugs. MARINA. Khruangbin. Kali Uchis and Vince Staples supporting Tyler. Tame Impala. Mac Ayres. Perfume Genius. Snail Mail. Porches. Barns Courtney. Charli XCX. Dave. Dijon. Rina Sawayama. Little Simz.
I'm not saying Founders would've booked these artists, they may be booked for Prima or whatever, but it narrows the talent pool and could be a little Fuck You from AXS/Goldenvoice for the GB/Pano feud
Did I miss something? Like what happened that made Founders go, "yeah let's completely 180 from the direction we were headed in 2020".
Reversing on the 18+, moving the festival to Citi field's parking lot, actively not booking or trying not to book rock / bands / electronic.
I'm just really confused. Think this is the moment I unfollow their socials
I'm just going to guess that they've decided that multi-genre fests in NYC are not profitable or worth the trouble.
When We Were Young and Just Like Heaven are showing that there is less and less point in trying to put rock music with Gen-Z hip-hop/etc and they should just go for smaller targeted fests. Founders could just throw a smaller Meet Me in The Bathroom-style festival or When We Were Young-like festival the following weekend (or on the beach in Atlantic City like the last Warped Tour) and they would probably sell really well.
To be a little fair to Founders, Bowery Presents/AXS has done an amazing job of booking a ton of quality acts for dates which would probably violate a radius clause
The War On Drugs. MARINA. Khruangbin. Kali Uchis and Vince Staples supporting Tyler. Tame Impala. Mac Ayres. Perfume Genius. Snail Mail. Porches. Barns Courtney. Charli XCX. Dave. Dijon. Rina Sawayama. Little Simz.
I'm not saying Founders would've booked these artists, they may be booked for Prima or whatever, but it narrows the talent pool and could be a little Fuck You from AXS/Goldenvoice for the GB/Pano feud
In hindsight AXS/Goldenvoice never even needed to put on Panorama if Govball was just gonna cannibalize itself and turn into this
Post by jorgeandthekraken on Jan 25, 2022 12:23:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I loved the 2020 lineup a lot, but I would wager solid money that it was selling like shit. I don't think you sell out a major market festival in NYC catering to online music nerds in their 30s. Panorama tried that, too, and never sold out a single day.
In hindsight AXS/Goldenvoice never even needed to put on Panorama if Govball was just gonna cannibalize itself and turn into this
Well it's kind of a snowball effect in my opinion. GB doesn't fuck themselves without fucking AXS/GV first, or AXS/GV trying to fuck them first, depending on your persepctive.
What I recall as to how it went was AXS/GV saw a NYC fest could work, tried to get into the market by essentially fucking GB by setting Pano right around GB dates at a better location in Corona Park, GB fucked them back by appealing for their own dates there or something causing Pano to be pushed into the dead of summer, end result is Pano dies after 3 years.
AXS/GV/Bowery may be getting the last laugh though
Did I miss something? Like what happened that made Founders go, "yeah let's completely 180 from the direction we were headed in 2020".
Reversing on the 18+, moving the festival to Citi field's parking lot, actively not booking or trying not to book rock / bands / electronic.
I'm just really confused. Think this is the moment I unfollow their socials
I'm just going to guess that they've decided that multi-genre fests in NYC are not profitable or worth the trouble.
When We Were Young and Just Like Heaven are showing that there is less and less point in trying to put rock music with Gen-Z hip-hop/etc and they should just go for smaller targeted fests. Founders could just throw a smaller Meet Me in The Bathroom-style festival or When We Were Young-like festival the following weekend (or on the beach in Atlantic City like the last Warped Tour) and they would probably sell really well.
It genuinely surprises me that we haven't seen one or two more of these crop up in NYC, yet - like, why L.A. has Cruel World, This Ain't No Picnic, and Just Like Heaven happening this year, and we have nothing of the sort...is it just a space/location issue? Are production costs/permitting hurdles with the city too prohibitive?
In hindsight AXS/Goldenvoice never even needed to put on Panorama if Govball was just gonna cannibalize itself and turn into this
Well it's kind of a snowball effect in my opinion. GB doesn't fuck themselves without fucking AXS/GV first, or AXS/GV trying to fuck them first, depending on your persepctive.
What I recall as to how it went was AXS/GV saw a NYC fest could work, tried to get into the market by essentially fucking GB by setting Pano right around GB dates at a better location in Corona Park, GB fucked them back by appealing for their own dates there or something causing Pano to be pushed into the dead of summer, end result is Pano dies after 3 years.
AXS/GV/Bowery may be getting the last laugh though
But they're not, though. GovBall 2021 sold great. I'd bet this will sell great - if nothing else, the lack of an age restriction and the return to early June means this can go back to being a beginning-of-summer party for the middle and high school crowd, regardless of who's playing.
The only loss Founders/LN is taking, here is with some of its more established audience that preferred its previous identity. At the end of the day, if they're moving tickets and making a profit, that doesn't really matter at all.
Yeah, I loved the 2020 lineup a lot, but I would wager solid money that it was selling like shit. I don't think you sell out a major market festival in NYC catering to online music nerds in their 30s. Panorama tried that, too, and never sold out a single day.
Or anywhere really. Outside of Coachella, even the objectively best music festival lineups back in the day would never sell out. Lolla and ACL would have early bird tickets for like $50 for 3 days and you'd be able to get them somewhat regularly for a while. I think even at the highest tier Lolla used to be like $170 for 3 days for a while and would barely sell out. The one with Pearl Jam and Daft Punk never sold out. Even the Radiohead/RATM/Kanye/NIN year only sold out week of IIRC.
There definitely used to be a bit of an aversion (integrity?) to being too mainstream but there's too much money at stake now to get cute when you're booking these.
The only loss Founders/LN is taking, here is with some of its more established audience that preferred its previous identity. At the end of the day, if they're moving tickets and making a profit, that doesn't really matter at all.
This is all true. I'm not apologizing for Founders or anything. When I say AEG/Bowery may be getting the last laugh, I'm speaking towards them maybe limiting how Founder actually books this fest vs. how Founders might prefer to book it
I'm just going to guess that they've decided that multi-genre fests in NYC are not profitable or worth the trouble.
When We Were Young and Just Like Heaven are showing that there is less and less point in trying to put rock music with Gen-Z hip-hop/etc and they should just go for smaller targeted fests. Founders could just throw a smaller Meet Me in The Bathroom-style festival or When We Were Young-like festival the following weekend (or on the beach in Atlantic City like the last Warped Tour) and they would probably sell really well.
It genuinely surprises me that we haven't seen one or two more of these crop up in NYC, yet - like, why L.A. has Cruel World, This Ain't No Picnic, and Just Like Heaven happening this year, and we have nothing of the sort...is it just a space/location issue? Are production costs/permitting hurdles with the city too prohibitive?
Look what happend to ATP when they moved from upstate Ny to Jersey then a Pier in Ny, it just tanked. ATP went bankrupt anyway and there went that. Maybe people just want a nice Summerstage schedule so they can pick and choose 2 or 3 acts to see in one evening and move on with their day. I mean if there was a way to have sustained all the shows they had at McCarren park then there might not be some insane need.
Post by jackalope11 on Jan 25, 2022 14:18:06 GMT -5
I think it's really just the top lines and Saturday overall that are underwhelming. Sunday is appropriately stacked but that headlining trio actually might be worse than last year's, which is really saying something
If "We Were Young" is any indication, they should have doubled down in 2020's direction and skewed further that way
2020 wasn't really the same thing as "When We Were Young". We're seeing an interesting shift in the US festival landscape with festivals now being common for a decade plus here, people really want a lineup tailored to a specific taste/vibe. These "let's throw a bunch of genres at the wall and people will be happy" festivals probably won't work on a large scale in certain areas, much less NYC. WWWY, love or hate that genre, essentially created a "can't miss" lineup for people of a certain age who were into that scene. Also, that scene (pop-punk/emo/screamo, whatever you call it) drove a certain dedication that other music genres did not in that time period so for the people who connected with those bands they REALLY connected with them hence the excitement/hysteria for that fest.
To be a little fair to Founders, Bowery Presents/AXS has done an amazing job of booking a ton of quality acts for dates which would probably violate a radius clause
The War On Drugs. MARINA. Khruangbin. Kali Uchis and Vince Staples supporting Tyler. Tame Impala. Mac Ayres. Perfume Genius. Snail Mail. Porches. Barns Courtney. Charli XCX. Dave. Dijon. Rina Sawayama. Little Simz.
I'm not saying Founders would've booked these artists, they may be booked for Prima or whatever, but it narrows the talent pool and could be a little Fuck You from AXS/Goldenvoice for the GB/Pano feud
I highly doubt many of those acts were in play or would even fit the vibe. I imagine Founders would entertain Tame Impala, Marina, Khruangbin, Charli XCX and Dave and likely a lot of those acts wanted to book their own shows either for prestige of money. Stuff like The War On Drugs and Perfume Genius would bomb spectacularly at this. The main act I'm surprised they didn't try to grab given they are playing Hangout is Fall Out Boy.
I'm just going to guess that they've decided that multi-genre fests in NYC are not profitable or worth the trouble.
When We Were Young and Just Like Heaven are showing that there is less and less point in trying to put rock music with Gen-Z hip-hop/etc and they should just go for smaller targeted fests. Founders could just throw a smaller Meet Me in The Bathroom-style festival or When We Were Young-like festival the following weekend (or on the beach in Atlantic City like the last Warped Tour) and they would probably sell really well.
It genuinely surprises me that we haven't seen one or two more of these crop up in NYC, yet - like, why L.A. has Cruel World, This Ain't No Picnic, and Just Like Heaven happening this year, and we have nothing of the sort...is it just a space/location issue? Are production costs/permitting hurdles with the city too prohibitive?
I made a similar comment on Gov Ball reddit but, yeah, I am genuinely perplexed as to why someone hasn't tried to cater to this audience. I suppose you could make the argument that Panorama and All Points West catered to this crowd, to some degree. However, a lot of people who were fans of 00's/early 10's indie/rock are now in their mid/late 30's or 40's, may have likely moved out of the city, have kids and thus if they are going to go to a festival they may be more inclined to make it a destination as opposed to just going to a state park in Jersey City or something. That being said, I still think there is money being left on the table and a festival that combined some of the NYC indie royalty coupled with new acts that interest people in a good setting could do well. I just don't think 30-something indie rock fans feel like trekking to Randalls Island or Citi Field parking lot for 3 days to see a lot of acts that play here all the time anyways.
It genuinely surprises me that we haven't seen one or two more of these crop up in NYC, yet - like, why L.A. has Cruel World, This Ain't No Picnic, and Just Like Heaven happening this year, and we have nothing of the sort...is it just a space/location issue? Are production costs/permitting hurdles with the city too prohibitive?
I made a similar comment on Gov Ball reddit but, yeah, I am genuinely perplexed as to why someone hasn't tried to cater to this audience. I suppose you could make the argument that Panorama and All Points West catered to this crowd, to some degree. However, a lot of people who were fans of 00's/early 10's indie/rock are now in their mid/late 30's or 40's, may have likely moved out of the city, have kids and thus if they are going to go to a festival they may be more inclined to make it a destination as opposed to just going to a state park in Jersey City or something. That being said, I still think there is money being left on the table and a festival that combined some of the NYC indie royalty coupled with new acts that interest people in a good setting could do well. I just don't think 30-something indie rock fans feel like trekking to Randalls Island or Citi Field parking lot for 3 days to see a lot of acts that play here all the time anyways.
100% – as someone approaching 30 the idea of a couple stacked 1-day festivals like JLH, WWWY, and Cruel World sprinkled in the summer in NYC is the dream. And the amount of VIP tickets, merch, and alcohol you could sell at those here would make them very profitable with good lineups. I guess it all comes down to locations/permits/transportation, like it always has with festivals in NYC.
Post by manoverboard on Jan 25, 2022 17:04:37 GMT -5
While the trolls of the internet seemed to be up in arms about WWWY being a one day festival, I was so excited about it and hope it becomes a more common thing. Festivals take a toll on you, and the older I get the less appealing multi day festivals are.
Panorama 2016 did pretty lousy in sales. But throw a 1 day fest on Randalls Island with Arcade Fire, LCD Soundsystem, The Strokes and Yeah Yeah Yeahs? That shit would be a goldmine.
I'm just going to guess that they've decided that multi-genre fests in NYC are not profitable or worth the trouble.
When We Were Young and Just Like Heaven are showing that there is less and less point in trying to put rock music with Gen-Z hip-hop/etc and they should just go for smaller targeted fests. Founders could just throw a smaller Meet Me in The Bathroom-style festival or When We Were Young-like festival the following weekend (or on the beach in Atlantic City like the last Warped Tour) and they would probably sell really well.
It genuinely surprises me that we haven't seen one or two more of these crop up in NYC, yet - like, why L.A. has Cruel World, This Ain't No Picnic, and Just Like Heaven happening this year, and we have nothing of the sort...is it just a space/location issue? Are production costs/permitting hurdles with the city too prohibitive?
All of this. It's extremely expensive to get permits to throw a festival in NYC. I would also say LA just has better weather to throw festivals year round while you are on a clock in NY.
Out of curiosity, for those posting here is everyone between the ages of 25-45 and live in the actual city limits or do we have any suburban folks? My speculation is that people within the 5 boroughs generally don't have cars so the idea of having to travel out to a spot in LI/NJ/CT is a huge hurdle to cross but there are perhaps enough festival transplants in the suburbs at this point which is why you've seen the likes of Sea Hear Now and that new festival in Bridgeport pop up.
Out of curiosity, for those posting here is everyone between the ages of 25-45 and live in the actual city limits or do we have any suburban folks? My speculation is that people within the 5 boroughs generally don't have cars so the idea of having to travel out to a spot in LI/NJ/CT is a huge hurdle to cross but there are perhaps enough festival transplants in the suburbs at this point which is why you've seen the likes of Sea Hear Now and that new festival in Bridgeport pop up.
I live in Queens. I’m 46 chronologically but 27 forever in my heart.
Post by manoverboard on Jan 25, 2022 18:13:52 GMT -5
I'm in Manhattan now (born & raised in Queens). Almost 35. Maybe my geography knowledge is wrong, but Asbury Park just seems like such a pain in the ass to get to without a car. This Bridgeport festival on the other hand could be a pretty do-able commute, just taking the metro north from Grand Central to Bridgeport.
Out of curiosity, for those posting here is everyone between the ages of 25-45 and live in the actual city limits or do we have any suburban folks? My speculation is that people within the 5 boroughs generally don't have cars so the idea of having to travel out to a spot in LI/NJ/CT is a huge hurdle to cross but there are perhaps enough festival transplants in the suburbs at this point which is why you've seen the likes of Sea Hear Now and that new festival in Bridgeport pop up.
I live in Queens. I’m 46 chronologically but 27 forever in my heart.
There were 2 of us in Queens a few years ago. Now I'm 27 in my heart in Denver
Post by manoverboard on Jan 25, 2022 18:16:39 GMT -5
But yeah I honestly can't really think of any place just outside the city where a decent sized festival could be. The Bamboozle festival used to be at the Meadowlands parking lot, which is a short and easy commute from the city. If that's where they decide to host next year, I just really hope they put down some sort of astro turf.
