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I think it makes sense to have happened at Coachella more. Their agent probably took a discount to be a sub (they definitely weren't big enough to sub) and then someone like Jamiroquai making a bunch for such a rare show makes sense too.
Did a little digging on this, and it seems like the agent in question is Adam Voith, at WME. He reps Vampire Weekend, Bon Iver, and Mumford. Find it interesting that he reps a couple of bands with leads that are not known for “maximizing profit”, Bon Iver and Vampire Weekend, who play a lot of smaller shows that aren’t priced up a ton. Feel like the agent was simply not a great fit for a pop band
no im saying they said it wasn't that they were paid less but how much less that made them angry.
Right. And I’m saying let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were talking about bands on a similar place in the lineup.
If their manager also manages Bon Iver, maybe they found out he got BI 10x as much to sub at Coachella. If that’s true, they *should* Fire his ass.
I really doubt it. At least for standalone shows, Bon Iver really doesn’t push margins. I saw Bon Iver front row and center at a seated show for 60 bucks in December, I didn’t even think that was possible anymore in this day and age of concerts
I assumed they were talking about Radio 1’s Big Weekend last year which probably would have had some radio play attached to it. If that’s the case they would have had the same billing position as Biffy Clyro, Alt-J, and Bastille - all bands I would expect to make more than Haim in the UK.
Edit: I get it though. Either they were simply over billed or just underpaid. Possibly both.
Last Edit: Jun 13, 2018 7:13:26 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Jun 13, 2018 7:20:24 GMT -5
Why are we all assuming Haim is in the wrong here?
Like, even the argument that their manager took a discount to get them a higher billing is kinda fucked up. You’re not getting a good deal for your client if your client doesn’t think it’s a good deal.
I would have to hear about some specifics. I guess my deal is there are plenty of women with high billing and we don’t really hear about this ever. Perhaps they’ve been letting it slide? Not saying Haim is wrong here, but if it is a situation where they were paid far less in the UK than an established act, it makes sense. I don’t necessarily think this is a situation where we need to look at the bigger picture until we get similar stories from other female acts because this could just have been a singular incident. There are plenty of other subheadliners out there with more experience and pull who I would think would be much more expensive than Haim. That said if their agent over billed/underpaid he should be fired anyways. Though I suppose a super high billing can be a payment in itself. So maybe he thought he was doing them a favor? Dunno.
I just think it’s too early to tell from all of these NME/COS quick sheets - especially when we haven’t heard the same kind of backlash from other women in similar positions.
Last Edit: Jun 13, 2018 7:47:13 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I'm sorry but if a festival pays 1M for a well established headliner like Muse, The Weeknd or whoever and you think making 100k is not enough for a band like HAIM then how much do they actually wanna make? You just don't compare yourself to other artists like that, that's not how paying an artist for a festival works. Because there come a lot more factors into place then their fucking gender. If their agent agreed to a certain price lower than they were expecting then ofcourse he did a shitty job selling them to that specific festival (even if they got billed as sub or whatever).. But that has litteraly nothing to do with them being a girl band.
edit: If there come out more stories from female bands or artists being underpaid even though they got top billed, then that's a difference. But even then, how do you compare an artist to someone else? Again, there come so many factors into place and saying "it's because they're female" is ridiculous.
Last Edit: Jun 13, 2018 7:42:36 GMT -5 by Bing - Back to Top
edit: If there come out more stories from female bands or artists being underpaid even though they got top billed, then that's a difference. But even then, how do you compare an artist to someone else? Again, there come so many factors into place and saying "it's because they're female" is ridiculous.
There are stories about women getting paid less than men in literally every industry. Spend two minutes searching the Hollywood wage gap, which is probably the best parallel. I don’t see why it’s so hard to imagine Haim might have a legitimate beef here. At the very least we should give them the benefit of the doubt. They have a lot more information about the issue than we do.
edit: If there come out more stories from female bands or artists being underpaid even though they got top billed, then that's a difference. But even then, how do you compare an artist to someone else? Again, there come so many factors into place and saying "it's because they're female" is ridiculous.
There are stories about women getting paid less than men in literally every industry. Spend two minutes searching the Hollywood wage gap, which is probably the best parallel. I don’t see why it’s so hard to imagine Haim might have a legitimate beef here. At the very least we should give them the benefit of the doubt. They have a lot more information about the issue than we do.
I could be wrong, but the way they worded their statement seems to be placing a lot less blame on whatever fest it was (could be to avoid blacklisting) and more on their agent for being incompetent. They seemed okay or at least understood that women make less, but their agent just failed their standards completely. That’s also okay. Even if they thought they should be paid more then have the right to part ways and seek someone thatthey feel will represent them better.
FESTIVALS: Coachella '14-'19, ‘23|Treasure Island '13 FYF '13-'16|Austin City Limits '15, ‘19|Outside Lands '17 Panorama '17-'18|Hard DotD '15|All My Friends '18 Life is Beautiful '17|Day for Night '17|III Points ‘21-‘23|Art With Me '22 -‘23|Ultra ‘23|Betrayed by Frank Ocean FYF ‘15 & Coachella ‘23|
Post by wufinancial on Jun 13, 2018 8:09:19 GMT -5
I think we can all agree Haim were way over billed at most of the festivals they've played, especially Coachella. But if they're being billed that high, they should most definitely be compensated for it.
I think we can all agree Haim were way over billed at most of the festivals they've played, especially Coachella. But if they're being billed that high, they should most definitely be compensated for it.
I don't think it's that crazy to take a pay cut and get higher billing at Coachella to set the standard for their lineup placement for the rest of the festival season.
I think we can all agree Haim were way over billed at most of the festivals they've played, especially Coachella. But if they're being billed that high, they should most definitely be compensated for it.
I don't think it's that crazy to take a pay cut and get higher billing at Coachella to set the standard for their lineup placement for the rest of the festival season.
To sub headline or be top 4 on your day, take 10x less than an equal male billing, and hear about it through gossip instead of being notified through the process by your booking agent (Which is conjecture on my part, but seems to be what happened here) is really fucking ridiculous and I feel thats non debatable. This isn't like Cardi B. The only spot where they look bad is not knowing their own worth in the festival climate or their market value in real time, rather than in hindsight. Also, I don't think the fest in question is Coachella from the talks of it. I'm sure that will leak soon.
This brings up my previous point: did they expect to get paid as much as a headliner? If true, this seems like a cheap way to virtue signal and screw their booking manager over.
How about we give them a little credit and assume they weren’t expecting to make as much money as a headliner billed a few spots ahead of them.
If Bing's claim is true (I've seen others reaffirm the same), then I can't give 'em much credit.
How about we give them a little credit and assume they weren’t expecting to make as much money as a headliner billed a few spots ahead of them.
If Bing's claim is true (I've seen others reaffirm the same), then I can't give 'em much credit.
I checked the source article in Grazia and they said it was a fest that happened last year and they were one space below on the lineup. So Bing’s claim is not true.
What was really scary to us was feeling like if we acted a certain way, people would think we didn’t play our own instruments,’ adds Alana (they do this a lot, interrupting each other and finishing one another’s sentences). ‘I still get so many people asking me, “So who really writes your songs?” A lot of people automatically accept the fact that an all-male band writes their own songs, but when they see an all-woman band they’re like, “Oh there must be a man behind it, fuelling their fire.”’
They’re patently aware of just how lucky they are to have each other (‘We’re a fortress,’ says Este, 32). Yet they’ve still repeatedly been burnt by a sexist industry – especially when it’s come to equal pay. Last year, they found out they had been paid 10 times less than a male artist at a festival – despite being just one space below on the line-up.
If Bing 's claim is true (I've seen others reaffirm the same), then I can't give 'em much credit.
I checked the source article in Grazia and they said it was a fest that happened last year and they were one space below on the lineup. So Bing ’s claim is not true.
What was really scary to us was feeling like if we acted a certain way, people would think we didn’t play our own instruments,’ adds Alana (they do this a lot, interrupting each other and finishing one another’s sentences). ‘I still get so many people asking me, “So who really writes your songs?” A lot of people automatically accept the fact that an all-male band writes their own songs, but when they see an all-woman band they’re like, “Oh there must be a man behind it, fuelling their fire.”’
They’re patently aware of just how lucky they are to have each other (‘We’re a fortress,’ says Este, 32). Yet they’ve still repeatedly been burnt by a sexist industry – especially when it’s come to equal pay. Last year, they found out they had been paid 10 times less than a male artist at a festival – despite being just one space below on the line-up.
FESTIVALS: Coachella '14-'19, ‘23|Treasure Island '13 FYF '13-'16|Austin City Limits '15, ‘19|Outside Lands '17 Panorama '17-'18|Hard DotD '15|All My Friends '18 Life is Beautiful '17|Day for Night '17|III Points ‘21-‘23|Art With Me '22 -‘23|Ultra ‘23|Betrayed by Frank Ocean FYF ‘15 & Coachella ‘23|
FESTIVALS: Coachella '14-'19, ‘23|Treasure Island '13 FYF '13-'16|Austin City Limits '15, ‘19|Outside Lands '17 Panorama '17-'18|Hard DotD '15|All My Friends '18 Life is Beautiful '17|Day for Night '17|III Points ‘21-‘23|Art With Me '22 -‘23|Ultra ‘23|Betrayed by Frank Ocean FYF ‘15 & Coachella ‘23|
So I've checked their setlists and there are only a few options where this could've happend (I'm sorry, I just wanna know lol) - Lost Lake (billed #8th behind Pixies, subbed for Chance The Rapper whilst Pixies where on the second stage) - Life Is Beautiful (billed #12th behind Schoolboy Q, I'm guessing, played on the second stage right before MGMT) - Ohana Festival (billed #5th behind Pixies, subbed for Jack Johnson) - Reading & Leeds (billed eh? idk??, closed the second stage against Muse) - Splendour In The Grass (billed #5th behind Royal Blood, subbed for the The xx) - Glastonbury (billed #26th behind .Paak, played on the second stage 4th to last before The Courtneers) - Tinderbox (billed #3th, played, subbed for Kings Of Leon)
So I've checked their setlists and there are only a few options where this could've happend (I'm sorry, I just wanna know lol) - Lost Lake (billed #8th behind Pixies, subbed for Chance The Rapper whilst Pixies where on the second stage) - Life Is Beautiful (billed #12th behind Schoolboy Q, I'm guessing, played on the second stage right before MGMT) - Ohana Festival (billed #5th behind Pixies, subbed for Jack Johnson) - Reading & Leeds (billed eh? idk??, closed the second stage against Muse) - Splendour In The Grass (billed #5th behind Royal Blood, subbed for the The xx) - Glastonbury (billed #26th behind .Paak, played on the second stage 4th to last before The Courtneers) - Tinderbox (billed #3th, played, subbed for Kings Of Leon)
So I've checked their setlists and there are only a few options where this could've happend (I'm sorry, I just wanna know lol) - Lost Lake (billed #8th behind Pixies, subbed for Chance The Rapper whilst Pixies where on the second stage) - Life Is Beautiful (billed #12th behind Schoolboy Q, I'm guessing, played on the second stage right before MGMT) - Ohana Festival (billed #5th behind Pixies, subbed for Jack Johnson) - Reading & Leeds (billed eh? idk??, closed the second stage against Muse) - Splendour In The Grass (billed #5th behind Royal Blood, subbed for the The xx) - Glastonbury (billed #26th behind .Paak, played on the second stage 4th to last before The Courtneers) - Tinderbox (billed #3th, played, subbed for Kings Of Leon)
I'm gonna go with Splendour
This makes the most sense from “I can see royal blood getting paid 10x Haim and I can see them being furious about it” perspective.
FWIW - and this has nothing to do with the discussion - but I saw an older couple probably late 50s / early 60s at Coachella this year while waiting for a show to start at the Outdoor. The woman had a shirt on that said "GO HAIM OR GO HOME." I told her nice shirt and asked if she liked the HAIM performance last night. She said, "yes, but I'm biased - they're my daughters." Ended up talking to the HAIM parents for a few minutes, they were pretty rad.
FWIW - and this has nothing to do with the discussion - but I saw an older couple probably late 50s / early 60s at Coachella this year while waiting for a show to start at the Outdoor. The woman had a shirt on that said "GO HAIM OR GO HOME." I told her nice shirt and asked if she liked the HAIM performance last night. She said, "yes, but I'm biased - they're my daughters." Ended up talking to the HAIM parents for a few minutes, they were pretty rad.
I think their parents go to like every show because my friends sat behind them at a show in LA haha
FESTIVALS: Coachella '14-'19, ‘23|Treasure Island '13 FYF '13-'16|Austin City Limits '15, ‘19|Outside Lands '17 Panorama '17-'18|Hard DotD '15|All My Friends '18 Life is Beautiful '17|Day for Night '17|III Points ‘21-‘23|Art With Me '22 -‘23|Ultra ‘23|Betrayed by Frank Ocean FYF ‘15 & Coachella ‘23|
