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for those on here who have read the ASOIAF books and are interested in discussing where the story goes from the ending of Dance with Dragons.
**Warning, wade through this thread at your own risk. SPOILERS ABOUND.**
some questions I had that I would like to discuss:
- Who is Azor Azai reborn? Dany or Jon Snow or someone else?
- is Aegon really Aegon, or an imposter?
- is Stannis really dead? or is Ramsay Snow bluffing?
- is Jon Snow really dead? if so, do you think his character narrative is over or will he regain consciousness as Ghost?
- Do you think Winds of Winter will be split in two volumes, or will Martin consolidate everything into one novel?
- is Martin saving the Stark kids (Arya, Bran, Sansa) for something big, or is he simply just tired of writing about them- reducing them to small supporting roles?
- on a scale of 1-10, how awesome will Davos' storyline be next book?
Post by Dave Maynar on May 8, 2012 11:01:20 GMT -5
I am just coming from the experience of reading The Wheel of Time series, but never trust an author who says a series is going to be a certain amount of books.
Great thread i can finally talk and not worry about ruining people.
I believe Azor Azai is going to be Jon Snow, i think that he is not dead, and the Red Lady is going to heal him somehow and come to this realization in the process. As far as Aegon goes, i'm not too sure. I do not think Stannis is dead i believe Ramsay is bluffing..
I definitely think the Stark children will have some type of roll, obviously bran is getting all those crazy powers. Is he becoming one of the children?? Arya has a huge connection with Nymeria sitll. I really think there is something with the wolves going ot happen obviously. They keep mentioning them being led by a big bitch which i am to assume is Nymeria. Sansa i think is the girl in Cersei's prophecy, not Margery. I think Sansa is this more beautiful girl the way people are describing her.
I hope Davos' story is awesome i am pretty pumped for it so i'll go at a 7 right now but it can easily fluctuate.
One interesting idea a friend and i had concerning Jon Snow. We figure that he still doens't know who his mother is. And Eddard Stark was very hush hush about him and where his mother came from. Anyway, we were thinking, what if, Eddard's sister, Lyanna, actually willingly went off with Rheagar??? What if she had Jon Snow and before she died she gave the child to Jon Snow. One of the things that kept popping up in the book was Eddard having that vision of Lyanna dying saying something like "No one can know" or something along those lines. So Jon Snow is in a way both a Targaryean and a Stark.... Keep in mind this is just an idea we had and enjoy discussing.
If our idea is true i feel like he is going to see the old gods or something while he is 'dead' and see Ned, who will explain this all to him. Then when he returns he shall begin his siege downward, eventually meeting with Dany, and conquer Westeros.......
some questions I had that I would like to discuss:
- Who is Azor Azai reborn? Dany or Jon Snow or someone else?
Jon
- is Aegon really Aegon, or an imposter?
I think it's actually Aegon, but I know I'm a minority.
- is Stannis really dead? or is Ramsay Snow bluffing?
This is what I'm most looking forward to reading about as the beginning of Winds of Winter. Even more than Jaime/Brienne/Stoneheart. I say it's a bluff.
- is Jon Snow really dead? if so, do you think his character narrative is over or will he regain consciousness as Ghost?
Jon is definitely dead, but it's definitely not permanent. I hope there's some way to revive him involving Ghost as opposed to brining him back Berric/Catelyn style through Rhollor magic.
- Do you think Winds of Winter will be split in two volumes, or will Martin consolidate everything into one novel?
Oh god, I don't even want to think about this one....
- is Martin saving the Stark kids (Arya, Bran, Sansa) for something big, or is he simply just tired of writing about them- reducing them to small supporting roles?
The original title of the seventh book was A Time For Wolves before Martin changed it to A Dream of Spring. I think that should tell you that he has plans for his little wolves. I mean, it looks like Bran may become a very important figure in the battle for the world, being
an all-powerful friend of the Children of the Forest.
Plus, Sansa is with one of the smartest men in Westeros, who clearly has ambitious plans that will involve her role as heir of the North and possible the Vale. Rickon is going to show up and claim his right as heir as well. And who knows what Arya has in store, but GRRM is clearly planning something for her too.
- on a scale of 1-10, how awesome will Davos' storyline be next book?
I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On one hand, Davos traveling to Skagos and searching for Rickon could be awesome, but I almost think I'd prefer to have that be done as quickly as possible so we can move on with the main story. We've had a lot of "side quests" over the last two books, and I might prefer them to just move the main narrative along.
Yeah I'd say that its safe to say Jon is really Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Martin has said that he will not do what the writers of LOST did and make rewrites just for the sake of being unpredictable. A mixture of Northern blood (Stark) and Dragon blood (Targaryen) is the perfect combo to lay the smack-down on the Other.
I think Aegon is really Aegon, and that the three-headed dragon is Dany, Aegon, and Jon.
Stannis' fate is something I am DYING to know the truth of. Ramsay does claim to have his sword....
As for Jon, I'm thinking he'll be brought back, but not as a walking corpse like Beric and Catelyn. It's possible that maybe with Ramsay bringing Lightbringer back to The Wall, it might have something to do with reviving Jon to demi-god status, thus totally tearing Ramsay a new one. (assuming that Jon is Azor Azai.)
I don't see how Martin could expand the story with so many new characters and subplots to create two books for transition, but then just squeeze all the following events into one novel (Winds of Winter), especially when he's said that he didn't get as far as he would have liked to with Dance with Dragons. I think we have more than two books left for this series. Hopefully he doesn't take a decade to write them.
As for the Stark kids, I agree that something big is in store for all of them (hopefully a big happy reunion too, they haven't seen each other since book 1) And I never even thought of the possibility of Sansa being the girl in Cersei's prophecy over Margaery. Given the nature of Joffrey's death, this is already becoming somewhat true. I like where this idea is going.
And as for Davos, I only ask because he was one of my favorites in Books 2 and 3, and was somewhat disappointed with how abruptly his storyline ended in DWD, and how it was left on a cliffhanger, I'm hoping we get something good with his searching for Rickon.
Jon is definitely Azor Ahai, two reasons come to mind. First off his death fulfilled the prophecy; Azor Ahai will be reborn under smoke and salt when the stars bleed. The giant pulls off the arm of the knight whose sigil is a field of stars, and Bowen Marsh is crying (salt), and the wound is described as smoking. Secondly whenever Melisandre would look into the fires and ask to see Azor Ahai all she was shown was "snow".
I think Brienne is dead and revived, and that her perspective narrative is over like Catelyn's.
I'm really interested to see what Jaime is going to do. He's already turned his back on Cersei, but I am wondering if that was because he is really over her or if because he knew he couldn't defend her in trial-by-battle because of his sword-hand, and just didn't want her to know how weak he's become.
But if you were hinting at anything *romantic* between Jaime and Brienne... probably not.
Post by RadioSpirit on May 8, 2012 12:11:55 GMT -5
No, I more meant what will happen when he follows Brienne. What did Brienne say to Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart? If it was "sword" then that means Brienne meeting up with Jaime in DwD, is to bring him back to be executed by the Brotherhood. Is that how he dies? It would make him even more of a tragic character than he already is.
But the thought that Brienne accepted her death rather than betray Jaime, and has been somehow resurrected, I suppose by Thoros, is an interesting theory that I hadn't considered.
Jon is definitely Azor Ahai, two reasons come to mind. First off his death fulfilled the prophecy; Azor Ahai will be reborn under smoke and salt when the stars bleed. The giant pulls off the arm of the knight whose sigil is a field of stars, and Bowen Marsh is crying (salt), and the wound is described as smoking. Secondly whenever Melisandre would look into the fires and ask to see Azor Ahai all she was shown was "snow".
Wow dude, i didn't even think of it this way what's so ever. That makes SOOOO much more sense than just thinking Jon is Azor just because he is an awesome character.
As much as you all probably hate him, i am beginning to wonder what is going on with Sam Tarly as well. As well as some of the prophecies with Dany.
I really like Mormont and Connington too, i hope that they get what they want. Mormont next to Dany and Connington helping Aegon before he falls ill.
Where do you all think Euron 'Crow Eye' fits in to all of this?? and his brother Victarion. As ruthless as they are they remind me of some hard ass pirates, the way they are suppose to be.
I'm interested to see how the Greyjoys fit into all of this.
I had originally thought that Dany would use Victarion's fleet to get to Westeros and retake the throne, but it seems that Martin is trying to make Victarion an antagonist of sorts, and a very extreme hard-ass. I'm thinking he will perish in the battle of Slaver's Bay and Barristan will seize his ships (some how) to give to Dany.
I'm thinking Dany's army formulaicly could be made up of what's left of the Unsullied, Khal Jhaqo's khalasaar, and the second sons sellswords after Tyrion turns them. But I doubt it will go that smoothly for everyone involved.
Jon is definitely Azor Ahai, two reasons come to mind. First off his death fulfilled the prophecy; Azor Ahai will be reborn under smoke and salt when the stars bleed. The giant pulls off the arm of the knight whose sigil is a field of stars, and Bowen Marsh is crying (salt), and the wound is described as smoking. Secondly whenever Melisandre would look into the fires and ask to see Azor Ahai all she was shown was "snow".
Wow dude, i didn't even think of it this way what's so ever. That makes SOOOO much more sense than just thinking Jon is Azor just because he is an awesome character.
As much as you all probably hate him, i am beginning to wonder what is going on with Sam Tarly as well. As well as some of the prophecies with Dany.
I really like Mormont and Connington too, i hope that they get what they want. Mormont next to Dany and Connington helping Aegon before he falls ill.
Where do you all think Euron 'Crow Eye' fits in to all of this?? and his brother Victarion. As ruthless as they are they remind me of some hard ass pirates, the way they are suppose to be.
So if Jon is Azor Ahai, and his vision of himself fighting with a red sword is correct who will he have to kill/sacrifice to bring lightbringer back into the world? I would guess Melisandre/Dany/Ghost/or maybe a dragon.
Wow dude, i didn't even think of it this way what's so ever. That makes SOOOO much more sense than just thinking Jon is Azor just because he is an awesome character.
As much as you all probably hate him, i am beginning to wonder what is going on with Sam Tarly as well. As well as some of the prophecies with Dany.
I really like Mormont and Connington too, i hope that they get what they want. Mormont next to Dany and Connington helping Aegon before he falls ill.
Where do you all think Euron 'Crow Eye' fits in to all of this?? and his brother Victarion. As ruthless as they are they remind me of some hard ass pirates, the way they are suppose to be.
So if Jon is Azor Ahai, and his vision of himself fighting with a red sword is correct who will he have to kill/sacrifice to bring lightbringer back into the world? I would guess Melisandre/Dany/Ghost/or maybe a dragon.
So if Jon is Azor Ahai, and his vision of himself fighting with a red sword is correct who will he have to kill/sacrifice to bring lightbringer back into the world? I would guess Melisandre/Dany/Ghost/or maybe a dragon.
I hadn't even thought of this yet.
Maybe Stannis, if he's still alive.
From the text it will need to be a person he loves, or at least a thing he loves.
In that case i would have to say Ghost. I would be so sad if he did that though, i'd rather him ride Ghost like a horse in to battle and not be Azor Ahai than have to kill the beast and become a demi god.
Oher possible sacrifices? The Wildling Princess... Yeah Ghost seems the logical choice, there really isn't anything else in the Realm he loves besides Arya.
Post by RadioSpirit on May 8, 2012 13:39:46 GMT -5
How will things with Dany turn out? I think Vicatrion's ships combined with the new khal will be enough to defeat the invasion force, plus the slave revolt that is likely coming, that will probably spread across Essos.
That's a good question. Personally do you think that she is just going to take over the Khalesar?? She did say she would make her enemies pay, and Khal Jhaqo kind of was an enemy as he left Drogo after he died and threatened her? I'm thinking she'll kill him and the rest of the Khalesar will obey her.
My only guess as to why Victarion is there has to be so that she takes her ship. I can't imagine them being allies or working out a deal, then again she could say she'll vanquish Euron....
How will things with Dany turn out? I think Vicatrion's ships combined with the new khal will be enough to defeat the invasion force, plus the slave revolt that is likely coming, that will probably spread across Essos.
Except last we saw here Dany is out with Drogon in the middle of the grass sea not doing much. I think she will end up marrying Victarion she is still due one more husband, and possibly one more betrayal. Here is the most recent prophecy she has going on.
"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."
Kraken and Dark Flame is obviously Victarion and the Priest, Connington and Rhaegar are lion and Griff, and Quentyn is the Suns Son, and the Seneschal was her husband who betrayed her.
Here is the old prophecy from Quaithe which I never thought got filled properly
To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.
I'm thinking now that Jhaqo and his khalasar have seen Drogon they're just going to follow her and do what she says.
and that's a good theory about Euron. Assuming Dany makes it back to Meereen by the time Victarion gets there, they might form a pact that Dany will remove Euron from his throne in Pyke if he helps her win Westeros.
but I think Barristan will only see Victarion as an enemy, not being able to trust the Greyjoys after Balon revolted against Robert. I think he'll challenge Victarion to one-on-one combat for the ships.
Here is the old prophecy from Quaithe which I never thought got filled properly
To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.
The to go West you must go East, I think means her means to get to Westeros will be found in the East (Victarions ships are my guess).
To pass beneath the shadow could mean death or maybe the Black. Maybe Jon will have to kill Dany?
Here is the Prophecy I was looking for the one the Undying gave her right before she offed them.
"three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love... three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love... three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love..."
Jess do you have the books? May I borrow the first couple if you do? With my dad's passing and my pending unemployment I should have time to read soon.
Jess do you have the books? May I borrow the first couple if you do? With my dad's passing and my pending unemployment I should have time to read soon.
Yep, I also have all the ebooks if you want me to send them to you.
Moving to Nashville I will be employed eventually, but with all we have planned this summer part time or PRN will be all I need. What do you need to send an ebook? I've never borrowed one.
Well the witch was the betrayal for blood that was fairly obvious. Dany has consistently said that she believes that the betrayal for love was Jorah Mormont almost betraying her but not doing it because he loved her. Not sure if that is sitll held up and is considered the second betrayal. A betrayal for gold could've been the recent guy in mereen (forget name) that she was married to who tried to betray her for basically all of Mereen.