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So tonight in Worcester, some people decided to start an occupation on their own. It helped when at least 30 people in one wave decided to come from Boston to help out, and more waves were behind them. Worcester Police within an hour supposedly brought paddy wagons nearby - but according to last update since left.
A couple things I'm curious about... You originally wrote a lengthy post about your visit down there, and you said the protesters were "trust-fund baby hipsters" and that "their hearts may be in the right place." Were you aware of such people being there when you made these statements? I would imagine people like this would stick out and be more worth mentioning than "trust-fund baby hipsters" myself... but you didn't mention them. Did you find these videos before or after you paid a visit to Occupy Wall Street? Are you a regular consumer of The National Review, or is it just happenstance that these videos come from that publication? How normal of an occurrence is this level of crazy in NYC under regular circumstances?
I'm done with posting in this thread for now, and I'm sorry and disappointed this conversation didn't get off on the right foot, but I want it continue.
I'm particularly curious about your disenchantment with your finance major/career. I found myself similarly disenchanted with my political science major. I happened to learn, as I got deeper into the major, just how inextricably linked politics and economics are. I'm thinking you and I need to have a powwow about our respective disenchantments. I've got a feeling they're quite similar. I've also got a few other things I'd like your opinion on, but I've said enough for now.
I honestly knew, without even going there, that there would be a large portion of that crowd that were faking interest/concern/whatever. Doing it for the wrong reasons, or no reasons at all, and convoluting what should be a clear and concise message. I say "trust fund baby hipsters" because a) hipsters in their very existence are hypocritical ("SCREW the man! Let's go to urban outfitters and try on some wool scarfs!" type B.S.), b) I know these are the people who join movements just to be a part of something, and c) I hate them.
Now, that isn't to say I'm against someone becoming involved in an area or movement where they are unfamiliar with the finer details. I encourage that, but don't just say you care so you have something to do on a Wednesday. When I went there, I was discouraged because I saw a lot of that.
As for those videos, I just happened to stumble onto them on Youtube. I don't think I've ever read The National Review, to be quite honest. I'm not a conservative person (very liberal socially, moderate economically), and I generally don't care for the slant brought out by a news agency that swings one way or the other, but not both (that sounded dirty).
Even for NYC, OWS is pretty unique. Protesting is not unique to the city by any means, but something of this size to have lasted this long? This is the only one I can remember in my 25 years living here.
As for me leaving the finance industry, it was a perfect storm of sorts. I had just taken a new job as the investment bank giants began to fall. I had been hooked up with a grunt-level analyst gig, which is what I wanted to get into. I worked as a market research analyst, which was basically me choosing stocks & bonds for the traders and bond salesmen to get clients to buy.
When the banks started self-combusting, it was a feeding frenzy, and the chum were mortgage-backed securities. I know for a fact that no one in my firm knew that what they were taking part in was questionable (or in some cases outright illegal), but they started under-cutting each others' bids, fist-fights broke out on the trading floors, people were sniping clients from each other, just a complete and total "every man for himself" environment. As soon as they found "a run" (term for when you find a trade and keep doing it over and over because it's banking you $$ every time you do it), all allegiance and morality went out the window. I asked my father if this is what I'm getting into, and he basically just nodded and didn't talk about it in any more detail. I got out that week and haven't regretted it since.
I grew up eating pancakes off of storage boxes on the AMEX trading floor as a kid, so maybe this is just too personal an area for me to stay level-headed in. Those guys were not millionaires, not even close, they weren't a bunch of Bud Fox's and Gordon Gecko's. They were regular, 9-5 guys (but usually more like 730-6) whose jobs have been eliminated in droves due to the institution of automated trading and are being forced to sometimes take 50% paycuts to keep a job. The vast majority of Wall St. employees are like you or I, that was what I was trying to get at.
Also, I was highly intoxicated when I made my last post, so forgive me if I came off as a brash idiot. I am certainly a brash idiot, but I usually do a better job keeping it out of my posts.
But, again, this falls on the gov't. Do you know who works at the SEC? People who weren't qualified or smart enough to get jobs at an investment bank or brokerage. Even the top compliance people are lured away by big trading firms and investment banks (those $350k guys are these dudes, btw). This is true, but it won't show up on your Google search. So the people chasing the crooks are the people that weren't bright enough to get their jobs. I'm sure you see why this is not the best situation for financial regulation. And, no, I'm not deflecting anything to DC. That is where people should be protesting. Protesting a bunch of multi-millionaires (and billionaires) on their way to work isn't going to change a fucking thing. I don't see the point. They LAUGH at the protesters. Literally, they laugh. I saw it with my own eyes and it was infuriating, but they do. You want to make a difference
Flanzonyc, did you read this article in Rolling Stone? This was the first thing that popped into my head after this quote. I'd honestly value your opinion on this but it better make up for your opnion of Wilco. Haha.
Wow. I hadn't read that article, but it doesn't surprise me in the least.
The entire system is flawed and borderline immoral, to be honest.
Investment banks basically go to Moody's and S&P and have them rate their securities. After all, Moody's/S&P are rating agencies, that's what they do. Except, they charge the firms to rate the securities, but there is ZERO regulation on how much a firm pays, how many securities they have rated, etc.. I could go there with a $5 million check and probably find someone there to rate a pile of dog shit as AAA.
Moody's/S&P are in the same boat as the SEC. All 3 are comprised of "washouts" and people who couldn't land a desired finance position. No one ever sets a goal to work for the SEC or a rating agency.
The SEC corruption is much more alarming than the rating agency corruption, at least to me. The SEC is run by the gov't, so the association with corrupt financial behavior & fraud with a gov't-ran entity doesn't give me warm-and-fuzzies. I actually had the opportunity to work for the SEC, but here's another reason they can't hire any top financial minds to be a watchdog: the pay is horrendous. Making $40,000 a year as a watchdog with mediocre benefits vs. making $80,000+ with great benefits? Kind of tough to take the SEC seriously as the financial arm of the gov't when they can't even figure out how to fund themselves better.
If we truly want this to end we need to realize that the economic are just not working and we need,more incentives in the workplace and more buy in from the workers...if they feel defeated and like nothing matters then we may as well hang it up!
I know these are the people who join movements just to be a part of something
As a political science major, I have to say one of my pet peeves is that people haven't been as involved in civic action and discourse. I welcome greater participation, but I also welcome furthering individual knowledge... I'm seeing more of the former than the latter in this, but I don't know if the latter can necessarily precede the former.
I hope to discuss the disenchantment further, but at this point I'll be late for work if I even begin to right now.
This old Calvin & Hobbes strip popped up in my Facebook feed in relation to OWS:
For those of you who remember the TELECOM disintegration in the early 21st century....I think that is what Banks and Financial institutions are going through on a completely higher, different level. And it did NOT end well for Telecom...just saying...
an excerpt: "The people occupying Wall Street are taking to the streets because government is behaving as though it is unaccountable. The average household income for the bottom 90% of Americans is $31,244. Yet every member of Congress is in the top 10% income category. Nearly half are millionaires; in the Senate, more than two-thirds are. These wealthy members of Congress are making decisions that directly impact the accountability and bottom line of publicly listed companies. Corporate executives and government officials are cosy bedfellows.
Occupy Wall Street protesters are demanding a more accountable government – a government that regulates businesses, respects human rights, responds to the people it governs and ensures access to effective remedies for those whose rights have been abused."
Post by krunchykat on Oct 20, 2011 20:30:30 GMT -5
Allegedly someone involved with a mobile anarchist library in Louisville, KY was snatched up and grilled about Occupy Louisville while his/her library and contact info of borrowers was taken. I hope this isn't true.
While I'm at it, I read this article from the Huffington Post and thought it should be shared.
One disenchantment story deserves another, if you can even call mine that...
I took the scenic route through college, matriculating in fall 1999 and graduating spring 2008, counting a stretch of dropout years between enrollments. I started out as a political science major, but I gave it up during the final year of my first collegiate run and didn't look back for another five years.
I don't know exactly where the disenchantment begins, but I know the perfect starting point for telling the story: the afternoon of September 11th, 2001. It was the second week of my fifth semester of college, and in my desire to want out of an English class I'd decided was a mistake after the first lecture, a friend suggested I instead join him as a student government intern. This course of action went through student government's internship class, provided I had a faculty adviser, which brought me into the office of Prof. Franklin on a referral. (My fellow wonks may be familiar with the Pollster site he co-founded.) I had a meeting with him, and he decided I was worth the effort to advise. I was officially a campus relations committee intern, and had weekly meetings with Prof. Franklin for the duration of the semester.
It wasn't the most productive internship; not to suggest that I didn't learn anything, but it could've gone better... I had a job in a sandwich shop, mostly nights and weekends, often in conflict with some of the prime hours for some of these activities. I had a fluctuating weekly work schedule, so my office hours were juggled around and never steady. There was a stretch of time that semester where my irresponsible roommate spent our cable/phone bill money on his own expenses, which made for a bit of a communications meltdown when we got shut off. It always seemed like something with work or money was complicating my internship efforts.
These things were on my mind when it came time to write five pages about what I'd learned at the end of the semester. (This plus intern coordinator & committee chair evaluations made up the grade.) When I sat down to write that paper, I didn't really feel like making more than a cursory mention of committee structures, writing press releases, and the like. I could have easily stretched that out into the whole paper, but that wasn't how I wanted to sum up my experience.
I instead contrasted my own experience with that of most of my student government peers. I noticed, for example, that one big thing differentiating me from those most involved was the fact that I had to work a job. I speculated that in that age range, this was most likely due to parental rather than personal wealth. This particular point I related to the previous year's presidential election, in which two wealthy sons of privilege competed for the office. I talked about the numerous times I missed student government activities, committee meetings and such because of my job. I wondered how things would have gone differently if my phone and internet hadn't been shut off mid-semester. And so on, and so forth. Instead of stretching out a bland explanation of skills acquired into five pages, I struggled to emphasize these other strains of thought under the same limit.
To make the long story short, what I learned was that political involvement is like a luxury: more easily available and accessible to those with money.
Prof. Franklin gave me an A on that paper. I know it wasn't because of the work I did as an intern (my other two evaluations were charitable B's, giving me an AB for the semester) but because of what I actually learned during my experience. It was as good a grade I'd received in any courses in the major up until that point, but unfortunately it was also what drove me away from the major.
This was the end of 2001. I didn't go to school the semester after that; I had a crash and burn semester the following fall to kick off my dropout years. There was a perfect storm of factors besides my disillusionment with my field leading to my academic exile, but losing faith in my major certainly didn't help with morale and performance. I went back to school in spring 2005, and didn't resume the major until 2006.
I came back to it, yes, but for what I think were largely similar reasons to what drove me away in the first place... W showed quite clearly what happens when we the people idle and let the malefactors of great wealth have their way. He first made me want to lose hope, but later made me want to fight back.
Worcester is having a major problem with communication, not getting things done, and a local talk radio host being a royal thorn in our ass. (Blasting us on air, stealing signs from our occupation, showing said signs on the TV simulcast of radio show).
It's frustrating, some of us are still pushing onward though.
Post by champagne cory on Oct 24, 2011 19:36:10 GMT -5
So at first I was all for this whole Occupy XXXX thing. However today while riding the train, some girl sat down behind me and turned to her male friend to brag about how "fucked up" she got at "The Occupy." So much for a movement, yeah?
Some good news....SOME of the Alabama immigration law was overturned or at least cannot be enforced. BUT....the damage is already done. 40% of the school children in my hometown have been taken out of school by their parents. The media is trying to get word out that they can come back and will NOT be checked for status but...pretty had sell at this point. Half the businesses have closed and they have all moved to Florida! How is that for a slap in the face, though deservedly so! I have a friend who has a security clearance and a job with the Army who has to show up IN PERSON to renew his vehicle tag while everyone else can call it in and get it done. And they are even doing away with the decals! But since he has a hispanic last name...they are making him show up in person and provide two photo id's, proof of employment, residency AND insurance. Absolutely a waste of our precious tax dollars that are NOT going to the schools!
^I am seeing the same thing, CBS and ABC turning off cameras or "having to refuel choppers" that were in the air at the same time the cops started their assault. The fire is building! I do not see this going away! Kdog, you guys were what started this and I thank you!
This statement came from Oakland's mayor on her facebook page:
Oakland Mayor Jean Quan October 25, 2011 7:30 am
Statement from Mayor Jean Quan about today’s enforcement action
Many Oaklanders support the goals of the national Occupy Wall Street movement. We maintained daily communication with the protest0rs in Oakland.
However, over the last week it was apparent that neither the demonstrators nor the City could maintain safe or sanitary conditions, or control the ongoing vandalism. Frank Ogawa Plaza will continue to be open as a free speech area from 6 am to 10 pm.
We want to thank the police, fire, public works and other employees who worked over the last week to peacefully close the encampment. We also thank the majority of the protestors who peacefully complied with city officials.
I commend Chief Jordan for a generally peaceful resolution to a situation that deteriorated and concerned our community. His leadership was critical in the successful execution of this operation. City Administrator Deanna Santana developed the plan and secured mutual aid from other departments and the State of California. She will direct departmental teams, including safety, public works, communications, to restore conditions at the Plaza so that it is available for public use.
The City welcomes all Oaklanders to continue to use the Plaza during daylight hours for peaceful protest.
You can let Oakland's mayor know what you think on her facebook page. She's really been getting it this morning!
So here's a question: what's wrong with the Oakland mayor saying everyone has to leave the park from 10pm - 6am? Isn't that just the parks normal hours that I'm sure they enforce with anyone from protesters to kids
This happened in NYC about two weeks ago, but it's worth sharing:
Question: What happens to this movement when our troops return from Iraq into this economy? That starts in t-minus two months...
Shamar Thomas' views are not representative of the majority of US service men & women, in fact there were Facebook pages started (and abruptly shut down by Facebook admins) that basically said Thomas was acting as an individual, and not a marine. One was titled "Marines Against Shamar Thomas".
I don't know if there should be any worry about the military returning home and simply falling in line with Thomas, if that's what you meant.
Post by Whoreshack on Oct 26, 2011 19:17:51 GMT -5
Scott Olsen, a Marine Vet, back from 2 terms in Iraq, was demonstrating at the Oakland Occupy. He was shot in the head by police with a "non-lethal" bullet and remains in critical condition, with a fractured skull.
So here's a question: what's wrong with the Oakland mayor saying everyone has to leave the park from 10pm - 6am? Isn't that just the parks normal hours that I'm sure they enforce with anyone from protesters to kids
What's right about letting a city ordinance dictate when you're allowed to peacefully assemble? The first amendment says nothing about time frames.
Staying on site 24/7 (occupying) is expressive conduct, which is protected under the first amendment.
So here's a question: what's wrong with the Oakland mayor saying everyone has to leave the park from 10pm - 6am? Isn't that just the parks normal hours that I'm sure they enforce with anyone from protesters to kids
What's right about letting a city ordinance dictate when you're allowed to peacefully assemble? The first amendment says nothing about time frames.
Staying on site 24/7 (occupying) is expressive conduct, which is protected under the first amendment.