Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon (formerly GoT Thread)

[Jake Jortles]

My biggest issue with this finale has to do with my expectations going into the season and into the finale. I'm trying to put my finger on how much of this was my own problem and how much of it was misleading marketing by the show. All I know is that I thought we would be seeing the war this season, but it ended up (mostly) being a season about the preparation for a war. I wonder how differently I'd feel about the season knowing that coming in. But first I want to look into why my expectations were what they were.

1. At the end of season 1, Rhaenyra turns around from the fireplace with a look of rage on her face. That was the last shot of the season, indicating that war was here, and she was about to fuck shit up. And I think there was some promise in that shot that didn't get delivered on. This seems so small, but if instead they just had her collapse to the ground in emotional pain after learning that Luke was killed, it would have made a difference to me.

2. The marketing of the show. My memory of the marketing leading into the season was that it was telling us to get ready for all out action. But I actually think I'm mistaken here. When I look back on the trailers, it was mostly about "all must choose a side" which is pretty in line with the season of "preparing for war." I think there was a lot of fan chatter after season 1 that was like, "ok now the war is really here and it's about to be a bunch of nonstop action." But that isn't fair to the show.

3. I am swearing off of the "next time on" trailers with this show moving forward. The promo trailer for the finale was one of the most foolish, misleading pieces of marketing possible. If you are bored, go ahead and watch that in retrospect. It's insane. It's probably first important to establish something basic... a trailer should be a tease where you see a clip, and you want to know what happens in that scene. In this trailer, they show the majority of the shots from the final montage of the episode. It shows the Starks, Lannisters, and Hightowers marching. It shows Daemons army. It shows the actual content of the scenes. It shows Aemond looking over the city he burned. In the episode we just get that exact clip. It shows Aemond asking Haelena to fly into battle. Of course, Haelena doesn't fly into battle. Him asking her to is the content. I swore off watching the Inside the Episodes last season when the writers and directors were saying insanely confusing and stupid shit that didn't jive with what I just watched (I broke once or twice this season). Now I'm swearing of the promo trailers as I don't think they manage expectations close to accurately.

Knowing that this was a season that was mostly about the preparation for war, it makes me wonder if it's possible to tell a compelling, great story about that, without us seeing the war at the end. The answer is yes. But I don't think they did it well enough here for the season to be great. I can tell that because the first half of the season needed the Dragon Battle to be great, and the second half needed another battle to make it great. Part of me wonders if the episode 4 battle just occurred in ep 7 or 8 as the climax if everything would have felt better.

I think I prefer season 1 overall because of how nicely it finished, but if Season 2 had two more episodes to go with a fulfilling conclusion... which will probably just be the first 2 eps of season 3... it would have easily breezed past season 1 for me.

I'm gonna spoiler most of this shit because this post will be so damn long.

Things I liked in Season 2:

SPOILER: Click to show

1. Green Council scenes. I counted 6-7 of them that were absolutely great. At some point I might even nerd out and rank them. The shifting dynamics of this council throughout the season was amazing to watch. In almost every scene it felt like something was happening in the room among the characters while things outside the room were being discussed and planned. The one where Aegon and Aemond have a spat in high valeryian, when Aemond gets selected as "king", when Jaeharys wants a pony ride in the first ep, Aegon flipping out about Blood and Cheese and Otto coming up with the procession plan, Aemond calling Larys a toad, dismissing his mother from the council. I couldn't get enough of these scenes.

2. The Rooks Rest battle sequence. It was the coolest dragon fight I've ever seen on any screen. I would only put it behind Blackwater and Watchers on the Wall in the Game of Thrones universe as far as battle scenes go.

3. They crushed quite a few scenes that showed conversations that bluntly addressed massive, unspoken topics. Shit that's always been sitting there but you weren't sure if you'd see it on screen. And in a lot of these scenes, you'd learn even more about the character as it was happening. Meaning they didn't always play out exactly as you expected, but when they did, it felt extremely satisfying. Some that come to mind are Otto and Aegon talking about Aegon killing the ratcatcher and then transitioning into a conversation about Viserys and who he wanted on the throne. Daemon and Rhaenyra arguing - this conversation was rich with so many interesting points being made I don't feel like typing it out. Jace and Rhaenyra talking about allowing bastards to claim dragons and Jace showing how he feels about his own situation. Rhaenyra and Alicent in the Sept. Alyn and Coryls in the finale. Alicent and Gwayne speaking about her son in Oldtown. Larys and Aegon talking about disabilities. These kinds of conversations really defined this season for me and were essential in making this a season that was well worth watching.

4. The aura of this show is just sick. It feels like we are witnessing an epic time period in the realm's history, and that matters to me. 

5. The thing this show does where it leaves some intentions and motivations to appear vague. It shows and doesn't always spell it out for you. It was done way better this season than in season 1 imo. I was able to have tons of speculative conversations about what happened in many episodes and none of it felt cheap to me.

6. Simon Strong and Gwayne Hightower. New side characters that were perfect additions to the show. No notes. It would have been fun if we learned that Simon was actually playing Daemon, but we didn't need it.

7. The claiming of Vermithor. Fucking sick. 

8. Character archs being slowly played out across the season. They have learned from GoT season 8 where half the characters flipped on a dime. Where Criston was in ep 1 to now is great. In the last 2 episodes, you can see Rhaenyra slowly prioritizing her godly purpose over everything else. After episodes of restraint and hesitation to get her there. Daemon went through a big, well-earned change that wouldn't have made sense across only 2 episodes. Alicent. Aemond. Jace. Aegon. They all started and ended in vastly different places with either 1 significant event rightfully changing them, or a slow build of factors changing them. Legitimately none of the changes feel unearned or random.

9. I love Rhaenyra, in a totally evil move, starving the city then sending some food to get the smallfolk thinking she's a hero. Absolutely disgusting behavior. I'm not sure that the show even knows how evil that is because they keep having Mysaria tell her how awesome she is. But they showed a lot of Rhaenyra beginning to put her cause over the smallfolk between this and the Vermithor scene. And I love this descent. 

10. I like where we landed with the Dragonseeds. Ulf being a new money douche. I have to imagine Hugh and Rhaenyra will have an amazing conversation about how his daughter died to a lack of food (that Rhaenyra is responsible for). Adam... tbd. But there is a lot of potential drama here and its one of the things im looking forward to most in season 3.

11. Daemon's non-vision storyline I think was great and complete. Him getting there after only needing force / violence his whole life to accomplish shit. Quickly learning it wasn't enough and struggling to build this army, then finally doing it... was awesome. The scene with the Brackens, both Oscar Tully scenes, all the Simon Strong stuff, him originally landing there. I think the vision stuff actually detracted from everything else that went on here.

12. Aegon's actor turned the fuck up. Really great.

Things I didn't like in season 2:

SPOILER: Click to show

1. Mysaria. Bad actress. Bad character. And she's also done some secondhand damage to Rhaenyra as a character. Since she is so wildly trusting of this random person who's known to be sensationally mysterious and capable. She trusts Mysaria with her life off rip. The kiss at the end of ep 6 is now weird and out of place with them not going back to it. Mysaria also claims that her main priority is the smallfolk yet she seems to believe that Rhaenyra is a great person... even though she is currently starving the smallfolk of King's Landing. The only way they could save Mysaria is for her to actually be playing Rhaenyra this whole time (but that would further destroy Rhaenyra's character) and for the actress to flat out get better at delivering lines. Every time she got on screen I wanted to fast forward.

2. The finale. No matter how I try to frame this season. If it's a "season about preparation," it still feels like promises that were building throughout this season are being pushed off until next season. And I think that's mainly the armies marching in the riverlands and one other thing that would serve as a spoiler if I pointed it out. The only kind of cliff hanger at the end of a season of TV I'm ok with is one where a new thing is being introduced for us to consider heading into the next season. Again, I doubt this is possible based on the story from the books, but if it was Rooks rest episode 7 and the Vermithor ep 8 with the season ending on the Rhaenyra album cover with the 3 dragons, it would have felt like we were in a much better spot.

3. Some of the acting and dialogue felt like a bad theater play. When Rhaenyra and Adam are facing off on the beach (btw another situation where the previous trailer was misleading), Adams acting and delivery is really awful imo. When Aegon learns of his childs beheading, they literally have him furiously scream "traitors and villians" while smashing the model city. I put that one on the writing because his actor was on fire all season.

4. The botching of Blood and Cheese. I didn't hate this as much when I first watched it but in retrospect this was awful. There are many reasons why I hate this shit. One is the lack of horror showcased by Haelena or, later on, by anoyone outside of Aegon. "That's her character!" I don't care. No reaction from the characters, no reaction from me. In the books, Alicent was in the room, tied up. We needed this because Cooke would have turned in a memorable performance in this moment that spoke to the unthinkable act that occurred right in front of her. Then following this event, Aemond and Otto couldn't give less of a shit, emotionally. I know they've been shown to be fairly emotionless, but at some point the show and characters in it are portraying Aegon as this childish, irrational imbecil for wanting to react harshly and I'm just like "does anyone remember that this dudes sons head just got slowly sawed off a couple of days ago?! Wtf is going on here. Not to mention in the finale Rhaenyra hits Alicent with "a son for a son"... no mention that this happened. Secondly the scene is clunky. When Haelena points at a kid, the screen blurs. Blood and Cheese simply let Haelena walk out of the room. They mention that they should check for a dick but then they don't... why? There is no security and no consequences for Criston Cole because of that. Finally, they removed the most significant and definitive variable that made this scene memorable from the book. Aegon had a third son. In the book, they tell Haelena to choose which son to have killed. She clearly chooses one, then they kill the other and tell the living one "see boy, your mom wanted you dead." I originally defended this decision because the fallout of it is more interesting. In the book, Aegon still has a clear heir... the other son. In the show, he lands in the same situation that Viserys was in - a dangerous brother and a daughter. There is a lot of juice to be had there. But they didn't even address this potential storyline. In fact, I don't know if they even noticed how their change would result in a different succession scenario. Overall, this event is considered to be one of the most horrifying moments that George has ever written, and I barely even remember it as a part of this season.

5. They tried over and over to emphasize how important Harrenhall is. I still feel gaslit. It seems like the dragon count is the only thing that matters. And I think they tried to make Harrenhall seem strategically significant as a way to nerf Daemon and therefor the Blacks leading up to Rooks Rest. I don't understand.

6. Rhaena / the Vale arc. Boring as shit. How did they just let her run-off trail? So goofy.

7. Daemon's Visions Storyline. In season 1, Daemon was electric. I considered he and Viserys to be top 5 GoT universe characters. He was unpredictable, mysterious, but somehow you did feel like you knew him a bit, but it was hard to put your finger on it. This sequence of visions did two things I didn't like. It cleared up every shred of mystery about Dameon. And they mostly told us things that we already knew. Or things that seem irrelevant. The first vision with Viserys, they have Viserys repeat the same lines he said to Daemon in ep 1 about the heir for a day. Did they think I forgot that? In his second appearance, they show Daemon comfort / support Viserys after Aemma died. I feel like I got that so beautifully from the scene where Daemon helped Viserys to the throne / with his crown in s1e8. Then we get a drawn out "I never wanted it" scene. I think it would have been more powerful to see Viserys simply hand daemon the crown as a beat up old cancerous man. As I mentioned above, this show usually does a great job of showing not telling and letting us fill in the blanks. But in this storyline its the exact opposite as they hold our hands through his progression. I don't know exactly what I wanted here. I guess it would have been more fun if they had vision of something that led us to think this was about him not consoling Viserys, as opposed to blatantly saying it, then showing it. Last point is I think there was opportunity for a wild bottle episode where the whole thing was off the wall batshit with Daemon tripping and freaking out at Harrenhall as opposed to the doses throughout the season. Basically, I didn't learn enough new about Daemon. I do buy that these visions highlighted whats important to him and helped change him effectively. I wish each specific vision was more interesting though.

8. Game of Thrones seems to struggle with these "all-seeing" characters. Alys Rivers, Haelena, Three Eyed Raven, Bran. They try to build them as people who can tap into something special, but at the end of the day they just kinda know the story but don't actually alter the story themselves. Alys makes Daemon aware that he is part of a story. I don't like that. I want Daemon out there changing the course of history with each decision he makes. The times they were able to make shit interesting in Thrones was when Bran / Hodor messed with time in the hold the door scene. Where something in real life was changed / tampered with. Or when the Night King touched Bran's arm in the vision which scarred him in real life. Or they used it to show key events in the past that impacted the present now that the information was finally known (Jon being a Targ). But of course we know that they never figured out how to make the conclusion of that storyline interesting, and it still seems like they didn't know how to conclude it here. I'm not mad at it like some people are, it's just a bit hollow to me.

[joyrider]

Lmao I completely forgot about them glossing over Aemond burning that city at the start of the episode. Does the dragon CGI cost that must they couldn’t show that for like 2-3 mins?

[heyyitskait]

That felt like episode 8 of a 10 episode season, not a finale.

Overall, I thought it was a visually appealing season of television with incredible performances. The writing left much to be desired.

[Jake Jortles]

Aug 6, 2024 12:47:32 GMT -5 joyrider said:

Lmao I completely forgot about them glossing over Aemond burning that city at the start of the episode. Does the dragon CGI cost that must they couldn’t show that for like 2-3 mins?

idk I've never known. Like does the CGI cost a lot because the people doing it get paid a shitload of money it takes them a while to complete the project?

[supЯefan]

Aug 6, 2024 12:47:32 GMT -5 joyrider said:

Lmao I completely forgot about them glossing over Aemond burning that city at the start of the episode. Does the dragon CGI cost that must they couldn’t show that for like 2-3 mins?

I mean they didnt even spend it on this lol

[joyrider]

2nd lowest rated season finale in ASOIAF universe on IMDB only behind the series finale. Ouch.

[supЯefan]

This explains a lot. Hbo told then to cut it to 8 episodes. Why the fuck do you have your bread and butter flagship franchise cut shit. This makes me feel a lot better with Succession ending when thwy did cause I wonder if Jesse Armstrong had a feeling that he wouldnt get to make the show he wanted other than ending the story when he did.


www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/s/vfZgsc5uV9

[SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal]

Aug 6, 2024 13:58:07 GMT -5 Jake Jortles said:

Aug 6, 2024 12:47:32 GMT -5 joyrider said:

Lmao I completely forgot about them glossing over Aemond burning that city at the start of the episode. Does the dragon CGI cost that must they couldn’t show that for like 2-3 mins?

idk I've never known. Like does the CGI cost a lot because the people doing it get paid a shitload of money it takes them a while to complete the project?

Both.  People need to be involved in every part of the filmmaking process. And the post production takes weeks. A shitton of money for renting specialized equipment during production. Very expensive computing systems for rendering, etc. Lots of labor spread out over the whole production and you need a variety of well paid folks with unique skillsets.  In theory, there are plenty of examples of underpaid FX folks in on productions.

The closer in on the action you are the more variables and FX  crew you need on hand while filming. 

To burn that city you'd either need to build a set or pony up money for extra safety precautions on a location. Practical effects for burning buildings and FX team to  consult would cost a lot. Extras, stuntmen to set on fire... cause ASOIAF episodes with a dragon attack always need that guy on fire running around.  So it was scraped almost certainly because it  wasn't a known location or major battle set piece. 

[Jake Jortles]

Aug 6, 2024 19:44:48 GMT -5 SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal said:

Aug 6, 2024 13:58:07 GMT -5 Jake Jortles said:

idk I've never known. Like does the CGI cost a lot because the people doing it get paid a shitload of money it takes them a while to complete the project?

Both.  People need to be involved in every part of the filmmaking process. And the post production takes weeks. A shitton of money for renting specialized equipment during production. Very expensive computing systems for rendering, etc. Lots of labor spread out over the whole production and you need a variety of well paid folks with unique skillsets.  In theory, there are plenty of examples of underpaid FX folks in on productions.

The closer in on the action you are the more variables and FX  crew you need on hand while filming. 

To burn that city you'd either need to build a set or pony up money for extra safety precautions on a location. Practical effects for burning buildings and FX team to  consult would cost a lot. Extras, stuntmen to set on fire... cause ASOIAF episodes with a dragon attack always need that guy on fire running around.  So it was scraped almost certainly because it  wasn't a known location or major battle set piece. 

Makes sense.

[Dad Dog]

Aug 6, 2024 19:44:48 GMT -5 SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal said:

Aug 6, 2024 13:58:07 GMT -5 Jake Jortles said:

idk I've never known. Like does the CGI cost a lot because the people doing it get paid a shitload of money it takes them a while to complete the project?

Both.  People need to be involved in every part of the filmmaking process. And the post production takes weeks. A shitton of money for renting specialized equipment during production. Very expensive computing systems for rendering, etc. Lots of labor spread out over the whole production and you need a variety of well paid folks with unique skillsets.  In theory, there are plenty of examples of underpaid FX folks in on productions.

The closer in on the action you are the more variables and FX  crew you need on hand while filming. 

To burn that city you'd either need to build a set or pony up money for extra safety precautions on a location. Practical effects for burning buildings and FX team to  consult would cost a lot. Extras, stuntmen to set on fire... cause ASOIAF episodes with a dragon attack always need that guy on fire running around.  So it was scraped almost certainly because it  wasn't a known location or major battle set piece. 

an absolute must have

[heyyitskait]

http://instagram.com/p/C-ngknHP9_P

[3post1jack1]

so i can't wait another 2-3 years to find out what happens next, so I finally bought Fire and Blood. seeing now there is so much content they can work with in the history of Westeros. they could do a whole series just on Aegon I's conquest of Westeros.

[Dad Dog]

Aug 19, 2024 9:51:33 GMT -5 3post1jack1 said:

so i can't wait another 2-3 years to find out what happens next, so I finally bought Fire and Blood. seeing now there is so much content they can work with in the history of Westeros. they could do a whole series just on Aegon I's conquest of Westeros.

I believe that series has been ordered already

*rumoured*

ew.com/game-of-thrones-aegon-conquest-spinoff-reported-8574988

[Pale Hose]

Tales of Dunk & Egg is next, but yeah there's like unlimited content to keep making GoT spin-offs. Martin has been busy writing anything and everything to keep from having to actually finish ASOIAF.

[Delicious Meatball Sub]

[3post1jack1]

Aug 19, 2024 9:51:33 GMT -5 3post1jack1 said:

so i can't wait another 2-3 years to find out what happens next, so I finally bought Fire and Blood. seeing now there is so much content they can work with in the history of Westeros. they could do a whole series just on Aegon I's conquest of Westeros.

Fire and Blood spoilers but not really:

SPOILER: Click to show

ahahaha holy shit y'all. strap the fuck in for season 3 jesus christ.

[Jake Jortles]

Sept 11, 2024 10:35:22 GMT -5 3post1jack1 said:

Aug 19, 2024 9:51:33 GMT -5 3post1jack1 said:

so i can't wait another 2-3 years to find out what happens next, so I finally bought Fire and Blood. seeing now there is so much content they can work with in the history of Westeros. they could do a whole series just on Aegon I's conquest of Westeros.

Fire and Blood spoilers but not really:

SPOILER: Click to show

ahahaha holy shit y'all. strap the fuck in for season 3 jesus christ.

lol yeah that is kinda what I was thinking coming into season 2. But it doesn't seem like there would even be a way to avoid an eventful season 3.