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Troo, I realize that the bill was signed mere months ago, and that it will take time to fix a lot of things. My point is that the promises have not come to pass. He promised we would feel the impact of the stimulus right away. He promised shovel ready jobs for everyone, not just infrastructure and acorn. He promised that unemployment would not exceed 8 percent. That is not change that people voted for. Why is it that the majority of the stimulus money will not be used until after next year? We need those funds now. The secret is that it was all for power and control.
Jigawig, you have done nothing in these political threads but make false and misleading statements. In this thread and others I have pointed out how your statements are false and misleading, but with the above quote, I'll just point out that the following statements are not true:
"He promised we would feel the impact of the stimulus right away. "
False.
"He promised shovel ready jobs for everyone, not just infrastructure and acorn."
False.
"He promised that unemployment would not exceed 8 percent."
False.
I'm not saying you're lying. I'm just saying these statements are misleading at best. I'm not going back and doing all your research for you like I have done in the past. You've done this consistently enough that the burden of proof is on you. If you want to try to prove your statements true, let's debate them on the merits of the arguments you can muster to defend these statements.
there is no point in trying to debate something with people who consider the opposing view as blasphemy. he made every single statement, i have heard them with my own ears...his voice. if this were for a class, or something other than a forum, i would actually take the time to back up my statements. however, due to my audience, i really see no point in taking my time to defend something that will just be viewed as right-wing propaganda
there is no point in trying to debate something with people who consider the opposing view as blasphemy. he made every single statement, i have heard them with my own ears...his voice. if this were for a class, or something other than a forum, i would actually take the time to back up my statements. however, due to my audience, i really see no point in taking my time to defend something that will just be viewed as right-wing propaganda
Really ????? If it were for a class or something ????
Pretty self serving, no ???
Why blow your own horn so loud and then puss out by dismissing the forum THAT YOU CHOSE to chime in originally. You are doing your cause and beliefs a disservice by backing away from a perfectly legit challenge. Student gets an F for backing away from adversity yet holding on to righteousness. Lame... Step up or let go in my opinion. Nitetime documents his claims often. Not afraid of the light, are we ???
I say this as a fan of logic, debate, and taking us all higher. I could give a flyin crap about Obama's centrist corporatist mumbojumbo....
so i know everyone loves my obama comments, but i just laughed when i found out the olympics will not be taking place in chicago. i find it funny that obama has made all the statements about being green, and yet, him and his wife take seperate jumbo jets (not more than 24 hrs apart) to go bid for the olympics. also, lets not forget all the other smaller jets to carry their entourage and belongings. why not just go in one jet TOGETHER, if youre soooo worried about the earth?
oh, and how about that employment. i guess the jobs lost arent the ones that are created or saved.
so i know everyone loves my obama comments, but i just laughed when i found out the olympics will not be taking place in chicago. i find it funny that obama has made all the statements about being green, and yet, him and his wife take seperate jumbo jets (not more than 24 hrs apart) to go bid for the olympics. also, lets not forget all the other smaller jets to carry their entourage and belongings. why not just go in one jet TOGETHER, if youre soooo worried about the earth?
oh, and how about that employment. i guess the jobs lost arent the ones that are created or saved.
I would think it'd be a privilege to have your home country host the most coveted international competition around, regardless of what your displeasing president is rooting for. You honestly wanted Chicago's bid for the olympics to fail just because Obama was rooting for it so much? That's just absolutely pathetic, in my opinion.
The rest of your comments are just too ridiculous for me to even start on.
I don't know whether he hurt or helped the cause, but there are plenty of other reasons to not award Chicago with the olympics -notoriously corrupt gov't. that would surely benefit from the Olympics -the large debt that will likely be incurred by any host city, to be paid by the taxpayers -the violence in Chicago....just a week ago an innocent honors student was beaten to death on his way to the bus stop because he happened to walk in between two rival gangs. Not the news story you want coming out of your city right before the IOC vote.
On a personal level, I understand Jig's sentiment, even if he is a little out there It sucks to see someone who acts like the are so environmentally green to use up all these resources to go to Copenhagen and promote his city (yes he was promoting his city, not his country)....were any other world leaders there on a promotional tour?
I don't know whether he hurt or helped the cause, but there are plenty of other reasons to not award Chicago with the olympics -notoriously corrupt gov't. that would surely benefit from the Olympics -the large debt that will likely be incurred by any host city, to be paid by the taxpayers -the violence in Chicago....just a week ago an innocent honors student was beaten to death on his way to the bus stop because he happened to walk in between two rival gangs. Not the news story you want coming out of your city right before the IOC vote.
On a personal level, I understand Jig's sentiment, even if he is a little out there It sucks to see someone who acts like the are so environmentally green to use up all these resources to go to Copenhagen and promote his city (yes he was promoting his city, not his country)....were any other world leaders there on a promotional tour?
So your arguments against the Olympics are
1 Chicago is too corrupt for the Olympics
2 No US city should host the Olympics we are too poor and it is not worth the prestige. BTW Glenn Becks Billion dollar debt comment was about the 2012 olympics that have not happened yet.
3 Chicago is inherently more dangerous than Rio (guessing you have never been) easily the most dangerous violent city in the world.
I am sorry but if you Houston was campaigning and W was doing his best you would be 100% behind this I am willing to bet.
As to the World leaders, every leader with a stake in it was there, as is traditional. Also Obama mixed this "wasteful" trip with a meeting with the military commanders in afghanistan.
Personally jig, and to a certain extent your attitudes are a large part of the problem I have with the Republican establishment these days. Reveling in something that hurts America because it hurts the president is the least patriotic thing a person can do. I am sorry but at this point most of the Republican party is coming off like a bunch of grade schoolers at this point who would rather work to hurt American interests as long as they can use it to score points off Obama.
i find it funny that obama has made all the statements about being green, and yet, him and his wife take seperate jumbo jets (not more than 24 hrs apart) to go bid for the olympics. also, lets not forget all the other smaller jets to carry their entourage and belongings. why not just go in one jet TOGETHER, if youre soooo worried about the earth?
oh, and how about that employment. i guess the jobs lost arent the ones that are created or saved.
GWB bush flew all over the place in separate aircraft, being leader of the free world just sometimes means you have to make travel arrangements that are overly complicated. Do you think Michelle Obama could fly coach without the threat of kidnapping or hijacking? Like I said before you seem to hate Obama more than you do Democrats or gov't in general. It's cool I was not dubya biggest fan, but at some level you should line up with the leader America elected not on policy maybe but at least in the face we put towards the world.
Reveling in something that hurts America because it hurts the president is the least patriotic thing a person can do. I am sorry but at this point most of the Republican party is coming off like a bunch of grade schoolers at this point who would rather work to hurt American interests as long as they can use it to score points off Obama.
oh boo hoo, so America wasnt picked to host the olympics...big whoop. sure it would have been nice to have it in our backyard, but there were many other countries with bids in. the olympics will still happen, the usa will still have a team (and hopefully do well), and the world will go on.
i wasnt laughing at the fact that America was dismissed, but at the fact that obama realizes now that he cant get everything he wants with his personal charm. also, the release of carbon emissions from a whole entourage of planes for a 70 min (I believe is what i read) attempt at getting the olympics in his hometown. im laughing that the taxpayer money used to fuel the jets, pay employees salaries, etc was all such a waste.
oh boo hoo, so America wasnt picked to host the olympics...big whoop. sure it would have been nice to have it in our backyard, but there were many other countries with bids in. the olympics will still happen, the usa will still have a team (and hopefully do well), and the world will go on.
i wasnt laughing at the fact that America was dismissed, but at the fact that obama realizes now that he cant get everything he wants with his personal charm. also, the release of carbon emissions from a whole entourage of planes for a 70 min (I believe is what i read) attempt at getting the olympics in his hometown. im laughing that the taxpayer money used to fuel the jets, pay employees salaries, etc was all such a waste.
all just comical to me
I think that when we have a President fighting two wars, and in the middle of a very public debate the amount of time he spends worrying about the Olympics is minimal, in fact one of the reasons we lost so badly was due to the in and out nature of his visit. Which as I said before was mixed with a meeting with the general in charge of Afghanistan.
BTW nobody expects the president to fly coach on delta, your point is pretty inaccurate. Certainly for most of his professional life he has lived it very green, nobody expects those standards of the leader of the US. Sure he has to have security and aides with him when he travels, do you think POTUS just uses a blackberry?
Also as I said before celebrating a loss for America in order to score points off of our president is pretty sickening behavior. I am glad we live in a society where are you are free to do so however.
Last Edit: Oct 5, 2009 19:33:35 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
please tell me what catastrophic loss America has sustained from all of this. i do not see how the fact that some games will not be held on our home turf is somehow this horrible loss for the good ol' us of a. as stated, the games will go on, and America will be represented. catastrophies like the two wars (soldiers dying), unemployment (people losing lives, possessions), etc are losses for America...not where some silly games take place.
dear wolf man, and all who are criticizing my comment on the planes. good grief, i understand that a president needs security, and cannot fly with the common man for fear of whatever. the thing that irks me, with regards to the planes, is that michelle and barak took separate planes for the exact same thing. why did michelle have to leave like 12 hrs earlier (or however long it was...def less than 24 hrs before barak)? did she have an appointment getting her nails done, or her hair did? the overall point, they could have gone in the same plane, save taxpayer money, save the environment, etc.
please tell me what catastrophic loss America has sustained from all of this. i do not see how the fact that some games will not be held on our home turf is somehow this horrible loss for the good ol' us of a. as stated, the games will go on, and America will be represented. catastrophies like the two wars (soldiers dying), unemployment (people losing lives, possessions), etc are losses for America...not where some silly games take place.
It does not matter particularly and in fact in a lot of ways South America deserves the games this year. However several cities bid for the Olympics in a competition. I was more referring to your gleeful chortling about this and the jobs factor which in all fairness you can not really blame on Obama. You obviously will jump on any bandwagon true or not in order to belittle him. BTW You obviously cared about the Olympics enough to mock Obama for not being the deciding factor.
dear wolf man, and all who are criticizing my comment on the planes. good grief, i understand that a president needs security, and cannot fly with the common man for fear of whatever. the thing that irks me, with regards to the planes, is that michelle and barak took separate planes for the exact same thing. why did michelle have to leave like 12 hrs earlier (or however long it was...def less than 24 hrs before barak)? did she have an appointment getting her nails done, or her hair did? the overall point, they could have gone in the same plane, save taxpayer money, save the environment, etc.
Ok I have said this twice now but I will try to use smaller words this time.
Michelle Obama was on Americas, and Chicago's Olympic lobbying delegation. As first Lady and a long time native of Chicago this was a very appropriate roll for her. She was there for most of a week lobbying for Chicago. Obama flew through on his way to another, much more important meeting and gave a quick speech. He did not spend the night and then left.
To suggest that
A Obama should have spent all week in Denmark to make flights line up
B That Michelle was not performing a public service to the US and Chicago more or less in her job description, and should have skipped it.
Is absurd, and yes I will call you out on BS like that. I know GWB had enough time to spend an average 3 months a year clearing brush, but Obama actually appears to be working most of the time.
Last Edit: Oct 5, 2009 20:51:50 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
always have to defend the current leader by bringing up the past leader...i never once even mentioned bush. cant we all follow obama's words of wisdom and leave the past behind, look to the future? oh wait, cant really do that when he doesnt even follow his own advice. (said look to the future in regards to trying anyone related to terrorist interrogations, and now is giving approval for trying all those invovled).
i actually see it as a victory for the taxpayer. think about it, we would have to vastly improve one of the most politically corrupt cities in America...therefore, taxes to pay for it all. as obama said, we are "in the worst financial crisis since the great depression". can we really pay for everything the olympics entail?
and wolf, consider me part of the "astro turf", or the "nazis" as some in the dem party refer to anyone who disagrees with them. if that means that im joining a bandwagon, then so be it. polls show that my "bandwagon" is actually growing in numbers, and will pretty soon be the majority with regards to support for wars, healthcare, overall congress and presidential approvals.
always have to defend the current leader by bringing up the past leader...i never once even mentioned bush. cant we all follow obama's words of wisdom and leave the past behind, look to the future? oh wait, cant really do that when he doesnt even follow his own advice. (said look to the future in regards to trying anyone related to terrorist interrogations, and now is giving approval for trying all those invovled).
i actually see it as a victory for the taxpayer. think about it, we would have to vastly improve one of the most politically corrupt cities in America...therefore, taxes to pay for it all. as obama said, we are "in the worst financial crisis since the great depression". can we really pay for everything the olympics entail?
I think Olympic cities pretty much pay for it themselves. Not the US in general Chicago has the right to do what they want, whether or not some Republican in tx likes it or not. As to looking to the future that is fine, but if we forget the fucked up past we might be doomed to repeat it, and I sure don't want that to happen.
Also is that the best rebuttle you have do you care to touch on the actual points I made, or just gonna sit on your hands with them?
and wolf, consider me part of the "astro turf", or the "nazis" as some in the dem party refer to anyone who disagrees with them. if that means that im joining a bandwagon, then so be it. polls show that my "bandwagon" is actually growing in numbers, and will pretty soon be the majority with regards to support for wars, healthcare, overall congress and presidential approvals.
Astroturf is a legitimate term when HCA buses a bunch of pissed off rednecks to another state to gripe about healthcare, that is Astroturf.
At this point many more republicans have been calling democrats nazi's and brownshirts, than they have ever been called. As to your polls I doubt it, healthcare will pass, we will take care of the wars you started, and republicans will start paying the same taxes they paid under Reagan to support these goals. The red states are plenty mad about stuff, but they are in a minority when it comes to electing people. The mandate given to Obama in 08 will carry over, and at some point maybe republicans will stop acting butthurt about it, and join in the national dialogue instead of acting like 9 year olds who just dropped their collective ice cream cone.
thanks for calling me a republican. i have stated time in and time out that i am not that. i am just more conservative than like 99% of the people here.
you are right, healthcare reform will probably pass. we shall see if dems can do it without resorting to changing the rules of the game, and making it possible to pass without a majority vote. govt knows better than the people, right?
speaking of changing the subject, how is bush clearing brush in anyway related to anything obama does?
thanks for calling me a republican. i have stated time in and time out that i am not that. i am just more conservative than like 99% of the people here.
I said some republican I didn't mean you, ok I did mean you. However for the purposes of this discussion you were certainly taking their position.
you are right, healthcare reform will probably pass. we shall see if dems can do it without resorting to changing the rules of the game, and making it possible to pass without a majority vote. govt knows better than the people, right?
By which you mean that yes 60 democrats will vote to make it passable by a 50 person roll call vote. This changes no rules and has been done many times, if you don't like it argue with Jefferson. Also the last three times it was done was under a GOP majority Congress headed under GWB as President.
speaking of changing the subject, how is bush clearing brush in anyway related to anything obama does?
Easily the Republicans had their chance for 8 years and put forth as a President who came into office with budget surpluses and a plan to pay off the National debt into where we are now. Think about how many Socialist Obama jokes you make, but how loud were you when GWB distributed the wealth in the form of checks to individuals from a pool we all paid into? I am not solely a Democrat but I am damn well sick of republicans as far as I am concerned it is time for some one else to get a chance. If all the "conservatives" can do is sit on the sidelines of the important issues today and argue about stupid crap like socialsm*, birth certificates, and death panels instead of actually trying to accomplish anything then I am sick of them as well. We are bad off as a country right now, I think that is something we all can agree on. However acting like the anarchists at the G20 is not going to solve anything either.
* socialism
All societies have socialistic needs that we share a common burden for. This does not make their governmental systems socialist in nature just practical.
I'm NOT a republican...see I'm against overtaxing and overspending, but it's dems and reps. most favorite past times! I'm glad that we didn't get the olympics because the only people it would have benefited is union employees....no non-union shops would receive any of those jobs (same goes for "stimulus" dollars, non-union shops, the tiny ones that struggle most in the rough economy will never, ever see a dime!)
As far as the cities paying themselves....well yeah, and who funds the cities?? Oh yeah, taxpayers!
I really don't have any problem with BO jetting around the world. I figure we pay for so much shit with our taxpayer dollars, that the president flying around is not one of my big concerns. My point was that someone who claims to be green did something so un-green. I think global warming/climate change, while it may be naturally occurring as some phenomenon of the earth, is mostly just a lie to scare people into wanting more government to protect them from themselves.
Referring to GWB in a BO debate is just a convenient way for you to avoid defending BO...instead you just deflect away from the faults of your chosen leader and blame it all on someone is no longer in office, or really any position of power....and Wolf, how do you know we weren't upset about things he did? Did you know us then? Were we posting here about it? I know I wasn't....I think you just have a chip on your shoulder, so to you jig and I are on the same level as Rush Limbaugh...you make no distinction from one conservative to another.
Maybe you all should just accept that Obama has sucked it hard for his time in office so far. That's good news for me though....I really hope he keeps it up, then 2010 and 2012 will be that much easier!
Anyone hoping for their president to 'suck' makes me sick to my stomach. I didn't like GWB or agreee with a lot that he did but I never wished him to fail or 'suck'.
You're right. That came out wrong, and wasn't really what I meant to say. I still think he has not done a good job so far, and I would really hope that he would do positive things for our country. Unfortunately for me, his idea and my idea of what is positive are very different from each other, so I would be lying if I said that I wanted all of his plans to succeed. I don't hate him, and I truly do support our country, but I do worry that he wants to effectively destroy the founding principles of the U.S. by having an over-sized, overly powerful government. Many republicans seem to have this same problem, so it certainly is not limited to one side or one person.