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Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 1, 2016 23:57:16 GMT -5
I'm only a few episodes in but I can't believe how much they are manipulating that slow nephew of Avery's. Like....how can anyone watch the footage where he's clearly just making stuff up/saying what they want to hear and can't even take the hint that she was shot in the head when the cops keep pushing that way and think that he was involved. The phone calls to his mom where he's basically saying he's stupid and is just saying things made me so mad.
Great documentary so far. The video version of Serial for me.
It is damn near 3am but I finished the whole thing.
I had to bail after episode 9 last night/this morniing at 2:30 because I had work at 7. Im sitting at work just stirring on what I just watched (and didnt finish) for a full day.
At this point (esp after reading the link that NBF posted earlier in the thread), I feel pretty confident that Avery did it, and am quite fine with him being in jail. Do I think there was reasonable doubt as to whether or not all the evidence presented was authentic? Yes. But do I think there's reasonable doubt as to whether or not he did it? Not really. I just can't see any other reasonable explanation. As corrupt as the police may have been, it's way too far of a stretch for me to believe that they murdered Talbach just to get back at Avery. So barring that, who would have done it? Someone would have had to have murdered her, stashed her car in his lot, shot her in the head, burned her body, and buried her bones - all without Steven's property without him noticing. That doesn't seem very plausible to me.
It would not surprise me in the least, however, if it is determined in the future that the Manitowoc Police planted evidence (among other shady shit). There were so many things that didn't seem to quite fit right. And regardless of Brendan's role in the murder, their treatment of him wasn't right at all.
I'm not usually a big fan of documentaries, but this one had me totally engrossed. Plus I loved hearing the accents, and I was thankful that there was no narrator.
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At this point (esp after reading the link that NBF posted earlier in the thread), I feel pretty confident that Avery did it, and am quite fine with him being in jail. Do I think there was reasonable doubt as to whether or not all the evidence presented was authentic? Yes. But do I think there's reasonable doubt as to whether or not he did it? Not really. I just can't see any other reasonable explanation. As corrupt as the police may have been, it's way too far of a stretch for me to believe that they murdered Talbach just to get back at Avery. So barring that, who would have done it? Someone would have had to have murdered her, stashed her car in his lot, shot her in the head, burned her body, and buried her bones - all without Steven's property without him noticing. That doesn't seem very plausible to me.
It would not surprise me in the least, however, if it is determined in the future that the Manitowoc Police planted evidence (among other shady shit). There were so many things that didn't seem to quite fit right. And regardless of Brendan's role in the murder, their treatment of him wasn't right at all.
I'm not usually a big fan of documentaries, but this one had me totally engrossed. Plus I loved hearing the accents, and I was thankful that there was no narrator.
I don't think it is that far-fetched necessarily, if it was one of his family members. They all basically lived on that same road. And while she could have been burned in his back yard, if she was, why were bone fragments found in that third location? As far as shooting her, with the lack of blood, I don't see how it's possible she was shot in the garage. And if she was, why was her blood in her car? His family members would have known it would be super easy to blame him. I don't know why any of them might have killed her, but I don't really know why Steven would have either.
Some thoughts on that article: the dna on the hood is the one thing that seems the most damning to me. But if it was him, why did he not use the car crusher? As for the shackles he bought, that struck me at first, but like the garage, I don't believe he chained her up in the bedroom like Brendan said. It seems crazy impossible to me that they would not have found any blood in his room if he had. So while they could be relevant, they aren't tied to her murder. And I don't really believe at all that he told another inmate that he was going to make a torture chamber. i mean, how hard do you think it would be to find an inmate willing to testify to something like that, regardless of truth? I think not hard.
The bullet being from his gun is another thing that works against him, but again, if it was a member of his family, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think they could have intentionally used his gun.
I guess the stuff about him being creepy to her is also a thing that points more to him, but not enough to make me feel totally sure he did it.
I'm not saying he didn't do it, just that I am not at all convinced that he did.
At this point (esp after reading the link that NBF posted earlier in the thread), I feel pretty confident that Avery did it, and am quite fine with him being in jail. Do I think there was reasonable doubt as to whether or not all the evidence presented was authentic? Yes. But do I think there's reasonable doubt as to whether or not he did it? Not really. I just can't see any other reasonable explanation. As corrupt as the police may have been, it's way too far of a stretch for me to believe that they murdered Talbach just to get back at Avery. So barring that, who would have done it? Someone would have had to have murdered her, stashed her car in his lot, shot her in the head, burned her body, and buried her bones - all without Steven's property without him noticing. That doesn't seem very plausible to me.
It would not surprise me in the least, however, if it is determined in the future that the Manitowoc Police planted evidence (among other shady shit). There were so many things that didn't seem to quite fit right. And regardless of Brendan's role in the murder, their treatment of him wasn't right at all.
I'm not usually a big fan of documentaries, but this one had me totally engrossed. Plus I loved hearing the accents, and I was thankful that there was no narrator.
accents?
This is just how we speak in the MN / WI region...
Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 3, 2016 13:05:31 GMT -5
I just really didn't like the prosecutors voice. He annoyed me. Judging books by the cover I liked Avery's attorneys more. But of course....the doc was a bit more sympathetic to that side of the story.
At this point (esp after reading the link that NBF posted earlier in the thread), I feel pretty confident that Avery did it, and am quite fine with him being in jail. Do I think there was reasonable doubt as to whether or not all the evidence presented was authentic? Yes. But do I think there's reasonable doubt as to whether or not he did it? Not really. I just can't see any other reasonable explanation. As corrupt as the police may have been, it's way too far of a stretch for me to believe that they murdered Talbach just to get back at Avery. So barring that, who would have done it? Someone would have had to have murdered her, stashed her car in his lot, shot her in the head, burned her body, and buried her bones - all without Steven's property without him noticing. That doesn't seem very plausible to me.
It would not surprise me in the least, however, if it is determined in the future that the Manitowoc Police planted evidence (among other shady shit). There were so many things that didn't seem to quite fit right. And regardless of Brendan's role in the murder, their treatment of him wasn't right at all.
I'm not usually a big fan of documentaries, but this one had me totally engrossed. Plus I loved hearing the accents, and I was thankful that there was no narrator.
I don't think it is that far-fetched necessarily, if it was one of his family members. They all basically lived on that same road. And while she could have been burned in his back yard, if she was, why were bone fragments found in that third location? As far as shooting her, with the lack of blood, I don't see how it's possible she was shot in the garage. And if she was, why was her blood in her car? His family members would have known it would be super easy to blame him. I don't know why any of them might have killed her, but I don't really know why Steven would have either.
Some thoughts on that article: the dna on the hood is the one thing that seems the most damning to me. But if it was him, why did he not use the car crusher? As for the shackles he bought, that struck me at first, but like the garage, I don't believe he chained her up in the bedroom like Brendan said. It seems crazy impossible to me that they would not have found any blood in his room if he had. So while they could be relevant, they aren't tied to her murder. And I don't really believe at all that he told another inmate that he was going to make a torture chamber. i mean, how hard do you think it would be to find an inmate willing to testify to something like that, regardless of truth? I think not hard.
The bullet being from his gun is another thing that works against him, but again, if it was a member of his family, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think they could have intentionally used his gun.
I guess the stuff about him being creepy to her is also a thing that points more to him, but not enough to make me feel totally sure he did it.
I'm not saying he didn't do it, just that I am not at all convinced that he did.
All valid points. I think one of his family members being the culprit makes the most sense if it wasn't him, as that would explain why they had access to his property - and why they wouldn't have used the car crusher. And I agree about the shackles/handcuffs (I don't think they're relevant), and the lack of blood (I don't think he killed her in his house/garage).
Even though it's more circumstantial, his creepiness towards her as well as the fact that he doused a cat in oil and burned it alive make me think that there was something going on there that could make him want to kill, and that he has a demonstrable propensity for violence. That wouldn't be enough if in the court of law, but that's why I'm not a juror and just a proud member of the court of public opinion.
At this point (esp after reading the link that NBF posted earlier in the thread), I feel pretty confident that Avery did it, and am quite fine with him being in jail. Do I think there was reasonable doubt as to whether or not all the evidence presented was authentic? Yes. But do I think there's reasonable doubt as to whether or not he did it? Not really. I just can't see any other reasonable explanation. As corrupt as the police may have been, it's way too far of a stretch for me to believe that they murdered Talbach just to get back at Avery. So barring that, who would have done it? Someone would have had to have murdered her, stashed her car in his lot, shot her in the head, burned her body, and buried her bones - all without Steven's property without him noticing. That doesn't seem very plausible to me.
It would not surprise me in the least, however, if it is determined in the future that the Manitowoc Police planted evidence (among other shady shit). There were so many things that didn't seem to quite fit right. And regardless of Brendan's role in the murder, their treatment of him wasn't right at all.
I'm not usually a big fan of documentaries, but this one had me totally engrossed. Plus I loved hearing the accents, and I was thankful that there was no narrator.
accents?
This is just how we speak in the MN / WI region...
Aren't you from Joysey Jaz?
Yes, I am from Jersey, and I know of literally no one who speaks like that.
I just really didn't like the prosecutors voice. He annoyed me. Judging books by the cover I liked Avery's attorneys more. But of course....the doc was a bit more sympathetic to that side of the story.
Ugh yes, the prosecutor's voice...total scuzzy slimeball voice.
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
Jaz, are you talking about the Minnesooooooota accent?
Yes; everyone in the show is from WI/MN, and you said yourself that's how the people from that region talk, which is pretty much the definition of an accent. What other accent would I be talking about?
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
Jaz, are you talking about the Minnesooooooota accent?
Yes; everyone in the show is from WI/MN, and you said yourself that's how the people from that region talk, which is pretty much the definition of an accent. What other accent would I be talking about?
the upper-Midwest accent is most pronounced with the rural folk like in the show. I even noticed it and find it slightly annoying; just like in Fargo.
Although there are more pronounced and annoying accents out there....
Last Edit: Jan 3, 2016 14:25:37 GMT -5 by ZIG - Back to Top
This show was addicting to watch and I'm still not exactly sure why. I kept hoping for some amazing revelation that was going to exonerate Steven. I ended up feeling he was guilty and a little like the filmmakers wasted 9 hours of my viewing time. I was surprised at how well they managed to build suspense with 10 episodes, each an hour long, covering these two cases. Watching the defense team at work, building their case was the most interesting aspect of the whole thing for me. I feel almost like I just binge watched HLN without the annoying Nancy Grace.
I'm not surprised by the convictions. It seems likely to me that Steven did it. The whole blood aspect in the RAV is a hard aspect to overcome. Adding his obsession with Teresa...it seems likely (although I do believe evidence was planted against him). I'm still puzzled on why he didn't use the crusher that he already had on the property. I have yet to hear any evidence that makes me believe Brendan Dassey is guilty. He didn't even know what he was confessing in his so-called "confession". Len Kachinsky and his investigator, who was suppose to be working for Brendan, was out to prove he was guilty from the beginning. If the detectives were able to get Brendan cousin to lie about Brendan involvement, it seems pretty reasonable they could get Brendan himself to lie about his involvement. If he can't get a re-trial, I don't know who can.
The one area that I wish would have been more discussed is the tube of blood that had the whole poked in the front. Maybe it didn't mean anything to the case, but it shows just how shady the whole situation was. Kratz is a POS, and I couldn't help but smile about his sexting and drug use that got out to the public. Another character from this series who rubbed me the wrong way was Teresa brother. I feel terrible for him knowing that he lost his sister the way he did...but talk about tunnel vision. All he ever said was everything that came out of the mouth of Steven and Brendan was lie and that they were undoubtedly guilty.
it's been my experience that wisconsin has a far worse accents than minnesota. everyone I knew in minnepaolis that had an accent was originally from wisconsin.
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
The accents in Fargo are more exaggerated but have some truth to it. If you go to rural communities and speaking to the elderly folk, some will talk similar to Fargo.
Post by krisplettuce on Jan 5, 2016 12:30:22 GMT -5
My take on it is that I feel all the Avery family members should have came out with false testimony and said that they did the killin. You can't believe Brendan's story wih out also believing Steven since Brendan was with Steven cleaning the yard that evening and then at the fire burning junk not bodies.
Nancy Grace (who I never watch and don't support due to her over-dramatics) was talking about it last night and almost had a heart attack dissing NetFlix. It was entertaining to say the least.
She had covered the case years ago and interviewed Avery at one point.
Nancy Grace (who I never watch and don't support due to her over-dramatics) was talking about it last night and almost had a heart attack dissing NetFlix. It was entertaining to say the least.
She had covered the case years ago and interviewed Avery at one point.
I am 100% convinced that Steven and Brendan didn't get a fair trial, and they should have never been convicted on the evidence presented.
However, I am not 100% convinced that they're both innocent. But to say that they're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is crazy to me. There is just far to much that doesn't add up to me.
Scott, Barb's husband and Brendan's step-dad, raises a few red flags to me. Only one search group had a camera, and it just so happened to be the group that found the RAV4. Who handed out the only camera? Scott. He also originally says the fire that evening at Steven's was around 3' tall, later on, when Brendan's "confession" came out, the fire was 10' tall. Also, the timing of his story changes from the initial interview to after Brendan's confession.
Lenk and Colburn are crooked as shit. There's no question in my mind that Lenk planted the RAV4 key in Steven's bedroom. Colborn's call to dispatch about the RAV4 was suspicious as well, he definitely acted like he was looking at the vehicle when it was still missing. Somehow evading the log of officer's coming and going was suspect too.
Things that just don't make sense to me:
-If Steven did it, why wasn't the car crushed? He has a crusher on site, and the car could easily be made to "disappear". -Same with the incinerator. Why would he burn the body in a bonfire if he had access to an incinerator? -Their was ZERO DNA from Teresa in Steven's house and garage. If they raped, stabbed, and killed her, where was the blood? That's a messy ordeal to say the least, there's no way they clean every spec up. Did you see the house/garage? There was shit everywhere, no way it all gets cleaned. -The RAV4 key was planted by Lenk. Why was none of Teresa's DNA on the key as well? Other officers from Calumut straight up testified the key wasn't there prior to Lenk seeing it. -Why was the other burn site not investigated? It said other bone fragments were found nearby in a quarry I believe. Why couldn't that have been the original burn site and then fragments were moved to frame Steven?
I don't believe the cops killed Teresa at all. If it wasn't Steven, it was someone close to the family. It wouldn't be hard to pin it on Steven if that was your plan, it's common knowledge the Manitowoc cops would jump on the chance to lock up Steven.
And what they did to Brendan was abhorrent. He was a scared, developmentally slow teenager. The detectives talked him in circles. In one of his phone calls, he tells his mom about answering their questions, "I just guessed, Mom. Just like my homework." They were feeding him the answers, and you could see them getting upset when he wasn't picking up on the obvious clues they were putting down.
There were other issues I had with it, but that's just off the top of my head.
I still can't believe they didn't at least get a new trial. There was so much foul play there, it's fucking crazy.
I am 100% convinced that Steven and Brendan didn't get a fair trial, and they should have never been convicted on the evidence presented.
However, I am not 100% convinced that they're both innocent.
That's where I'm at as well. Though it has been interesting to read accusations and articles about what the documentary leaves out.
Ya, haven't done too much post watch digging yet. That's the next step.
But fuck man, the interview with Brendan in the school was tough to watch. It's clear to me he has no idea what's going on. After "confessing" to the rape/murder, he asks if they'll be done by 1:29 because he has a project in that class. I cried during that part, his life was ending and he had no idea.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 5, 2016 16:09:02 GMT -5
"What does inconsistent mean" is just brutal.
Lenk and Colburn are crooked as shit. There's no question in my mind that Lenk planted the RAV4 key in Steven's bedroom. Colborn's call to dispatch about the RAV4 was suspicious as well, he definitely acted like he was looking at the vehicle when it was still missing. Somehow evading the log of officer's coming and going was suspect too.
Yea, Colborn especially seemed a bit shady.
The key thing is what blew my mind. I must have missed it if it was in the film but I remember it being such a huge deal that ONLY Avery's DNA was on the key and not Hallbach's. Someone says that the key was probably cleaned and then planted with some of Steve's DNA.
Did they ever explain why they didn't bring that fact up in the trial? Maybe it wasn't shown but I thought for sure that'd be a big deal that it didn't have any DNA from the victim even though it was her key she's had for a long time.