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He, like Jay-Z, is just a little lazy lyrically. He puts more emphasis on flow and mass appeal IMO.
and plenty of MCs with intricate/thoughtful/"deep" lyrics who sound like dogsh*t because they can't manage their flow properly (like every overhyped underground/backpack rapper ever).
Thank you for putting into words my thoughts on all the new rappers that have come up in the past couple years.
He, like Jay-Z, is just a little lazy lyrically. He puts more emphasis on flow and mass appeal IMO.
You have got to be f*cking kidding me.
Have you ever listened to Jay-Z, outside of what you've heard on the radio in the last couple years? Because if you're referring to cadence, tone, and the basic delivery of the words, it's about the single most important part of rhyming. Any peinerpuffer with a pad, pen, and a little time can write a compelling story, but getting those words to flow together in harmony is what makes or breaks the rhyme. That's why there are plenty of MCs with phenomenal flow but perhaps less complex lyrics (like Method Man) who come off as beasts on the microphone, and plenty of MCs with intricate/thoughtful/"deep" lyrics who sound like dogsh*t because they can't manage their flow properly (like every overhyped underground/backpack rapper ever).
In conclusion go f*ck yourself, you have terrible opinions and should feel bad.
I want this to post automatically whenever anyone calls a rapper "lazy" or that they only like "socially conscious rappers" on this board.
That people are still saying producing rap music is somehow less difficult than playing a guitar in 2013 is boggling my mind.
How old are you BD? Because it sounds like you're my Dad's age.
I'm 21.
How many things does ProTools do for you? A quacking bagillion How many things does an instrument do for you? None.
Seeing as this is the starting point for both, I stand by my original statement. I went to audio production school thinking it was hard, and came out (like most other people) amazed by how simplistic and user friendly it really has become. ProTools can take an awful sounding Bass and make it sound incredible. It can take incoherent noise and put it into a 3:4 time signature. It can do everything, and basically does it for you. The difference between a crappy producer and good producer is creativity. But creativity is needed in any form of art. It doesn't take any physical talent. It's the combination of physical talent and creativity that makes guitar a little bit more of a challange in my eyes. Maybe you guy's have this obscure view of how producing works because of how new the technology is, but the new technology is basically just making it easier now.
Post by suspendedzen on May 22, 2013 12:07:38 GMT -5
Even the best of the social conscious/underground rappers, ex: Brother Ali, can have their less-than-great moments lyrically. This shouldn't be surprising; it certainly doesn't mean that they suck, or can't write, or they're lazy, or whatever. It would be awful difficult to be perfect every time out, on each song, on every album.
BD - FWIW, the 5 emcees you listed are all excellent lyricists in my opinion. That's what makes your anti-Yeezy comments so confusing. Two of the guys from that list did a song with Kanye, have you ever heard it?
Kanye has my favorite verse in the song, but he's literally bar-for-bar with Nas/Rakim. I don't understand how you can say he's not on the same level as those guys.
Edit: I mostly wanted an excuse to post this video, though.
That people are still saying producing rap music is somehow less difficult than playing a guitar in 2013 is boggling my mind.
How old are you BD? Because it sounds like you're my Dad's age.
I'm 21.
How many things does ProTools do for you? A quacking bagillion How many things does an instrument do for you? None.
Seeing as this is the starting point for both, I stand by my original statement. I went to audio production school thinking it was hard, and came out (like most other people) amazed by how simplistic and user friendly it really has become. ProTools can take an awful sounding Bass and make it sound incredible. It can take incoherent noise and put it into a 3:4 time signature. It can do everything, and basically does it for you. The difference between a crappy producer and good producer is creativity. But creativity is needed in any form of art. It doesn't take any physical talent. It's the combination of physical talent and creativity that makes guitar a little bit more of a challange in my eyes. Maybe you guy's have this obscure view of how producing works because of how new the technology is, but the new technology is basically just making it easier now.
See this is where you're wrong man. I'm currently going to school for Music Technology, so we have similar background. What you're talking about isn't producing in the sense that Kanye or RZA or whoever else produces. The software can fix sounds and do lots of useful things like you mentioned, but what it can't do is arrange it all in a way that makes sense and is aurally pleasing. That is where the skill of the producer lies. Producer =/= engineer, and I feel that is more what you are talking about. At least in this post.
He, like Jay-Z, is just a little lazy lyrically. He puts more emphasis on flow and mass appeal IMO.
You have got to be f*cking kidding me.
Have you ever listened to Jay-Z, outside of what you've heard on the radio in the last couple years? Moreover, what the f*ck are you talking about when you mean "flow?" Because if you're referring to cadence, tone, and the basic delivery of the words, it's about the single most important part of rhyming. Any peinerpuffer with a pad, pen, and a little time can write a compelling story, but getting those words to flow together in harmony is what makes or breaks the rhyme. That's why there are plenty of MCs with phenomenal flow but perhaps less complex lyrics (like Method Man) who come off as beasts on the microphone, and plenty of MCs with intricate/thoughtful/"deep" lyrics who sound like dogsh*t because they can't manage their flow properly (like every overhyped underground/backpack rapper ever).
In conclusion go f*ck yourself, you have terrible opinions and should feel bad.
How angry you all get is absolutely hilarious. So thank you for that. My opinion barely differs from yours lmao. I'm saying he is great sometimes, but not consistantly enough, and everyone freaks out.
I love Jay-Z. He's one of my favorite rappers. If you can't admit that about 50% of his career contained lazy songwriting, I don't know what to tell you. Not at any point did I discount flow. Flow is actually why I love Jay-Z. He's a master of it. But when I listen to rap (Hold off everyone, another opinion is coming, so close your eyes) I care a little bit more about lyrics than I do flow. I'd rather listen to great lyrics with average flow, than great flow and average lyrics. If you have good flow, but your lyrics are dumb, I'd rather there just be an guitar riff or drum track mimicking what the rapper would have brought to the table. I realize this is you're MO Juggs, but you sound like a 12 year old girl defending Hannah Montana. Not everyone has the same opinion as you. You're opinion on opinions sucks balls. Jay-Z is just a little lazy lyrically. He does value flow more than lyrics. Again the main words here are: little, more. Those words are used to compare one thing to another, and believe it or not, are important.
Post by Boston Powers on May 22, 2013 12:27:48 GMT -5
These guys are clearly all great rappers, but I'm willing to throw it out there that Big Boi has better "flow" than all of them. Maybe I need to listen to more Nas, but Big Boi's delivery is damn-near perfect.
Post by Boston Powers on May 22, 2013 12:37:53 GMT -5
Is Arcade Fire still releasing an album this year? Cause I would be pretty pumped about another Kanye vs. Arcade Fire best album Grammy. Hip-hop visionary vs Alt-Rock Titan, part deux.
Is Arcade Fire still releasing an album this year? Cause I would be pretty pumped about another Kanye vs. Arcade Fire best album Grammy. Hip-hop visionary vs Alt-Rock Titan, part deux.
MBDTF was released too late in 2010 to be considered for the 2011 Grammys.
Is Arcade Fire still releasing an album this year? Cause I would be pretty pumped about another Kanye vs. Arcade Fire best album Grammy. Hip-hop visionary vs Alt-Rock Titan, part deux.
MBDTF was released too late in 2010 to be considered for the 2011 Grammys.
I think Kanye's guest spots are a lot of times better than his own stuff in some cases.
And damn you, Jackson, I was really hoping to get work done this afternoon. Now I'm going to be Youtubing Kanye guest spots all afternoon.
from like 2007-2009, He was seriously on fire with guest spots. In that time he had Put On, American Boy, Swagga Like Us, Go Hard, Knock You Down, Walkin On The Moon, Make Her Say, Run This Town, Forever & Erase Me. That is literally insane.
BD - FWIW, the 5 emcees you listed are all excellent lyricists in my opinion. That's what makes your anti-Yeezy comments so confusing. Two of the guys from that list did a song with Kanye, have you ever heard it?
Kanye has my favorite verse in the song, but he's literally bar-for-bar with Nas/Rakim. I don't understand how you can say he's not on the same level as those guys.
Edit: I mostly wanted an excuse to post this video, though.
This is a good example of a great Kanye verse. He does hang with them IMO. I think the one difference between where you're coming from, and where I'm coming from, is consistency. Kanye just says too much stupid ish. When I first started listening to Kanye, I always assumed he would continue to dominate and would be considered amongst one of the better rappers. He's coninued to grow as an artist and as a musician, but his overall style has detracted from his emphasis on lyricism a little bit in my mind. I love Kanye. I like his first CD, and his newest CD. I just don't consider him a great lyricist like I do those other rappers. Probably a level or 2 below. But I also know that I value lyrics a little more than most rap fans, and that probably doesn't help other Kanye fans relate to what I'm saying as much. I'm sorry if I seems like I'm anti-Yeezy, I was really just trying to explain to CKS where a critic of Kanye's lyrics may be coming from.
How many things does ProTools do for you? A quacking bagillion How many things does an instrument do for you? None.
Seeing as this is the starting point for both, I stand by my original statement. I went to audio production school thinking it was hard, and came out (like most other people) amazed by how simplistic and user friendly it really has become. ProTools can take an awful sounding Bass and make it sound incredible. It can take incoherent noise and put it into a 3:4 time signature. It can do everything, and basically does it for you. The difference between a crappy producer and good producer is creativity. But creativity is needed in any form of art. It doesn't take any physical talent. It's the combination of physical talent and creativity that makes guitar a little bit more of a challange in my eyes. Maybe you guy's have this obscure view of how producing works because of how new the technology is, but the new technology is basically just making it easier now.
How many things does ProTools do for you? A quacking bagillion How many things does an instrument do for you? None.
Seeing as this is the starting point for both, I stand by my original statement. I went to audio production school thinking it was hard, and came out (like most other people) amazed by how simplistic and user friendly it really has become. ProTools can take an awful sounding Bass and make it sound incredible. It can take incoherent noise and put it into a 3:4 time signature. It can do everything, and basically does it for you. The difference between a crappy producer and good producer is creativity. But creativity is needed in any form of art. It doesn't take any physical talent. It's the combination of physical talent and creativity that makes guitar a little bit more of a challange in my eyes. Maybe you guy's have this obscure view of how producing works because of how new the technology is, but the new technology is basically just making it easier now.
See this is where you're wrong man. I'm currently going to school for Music Technology, so we have similar background. What you're talking about isn't producing in the sense that Kanye or RZA or whoever else produces. The software can fix sounds and do lots of useful things like you mentioned, but what it can't do is arrange it all in a way that makes sense and is aurally pleasing. That is where the skill of the producer lies. Producer =/= engineer, and I feel that is more what you are talking about. At least in this post.
I understand that the two are different. And I agree, that arranging a piece of music on ProTools and arranging a piece of music on a guitar are very comparable in the creative sense. Where they aren't comparable, is the mental and physical determination required to master them. I tried to factor in all of those elements when explaining my POV. Maybe I haven't done so clearly enough. My last post did include alot of engineer tidbits, but it was more or less to explain the technological capabilities of ProTools. I agree from a musical perspective they are similar. I don't necessarily think that is the ultimate deciding factor though, when discussing which one is the most difficult. I fully acknowledge that laying out a good song takes as much creativity on a laptop as it does on a guitar, saxophone, or the triangle (well maybe not the traingle). Hand a guitar player a lap top, and you could have a good producer on your hands in a year. Hand a producer a guitar, and I'm pretty sure you'd be waiting longer than a year.
I think Kanye's guest spots are a lot of times better than his own stuff in some cases.
And damn you, Jackson, I was really hoping to get work done this afternoon. Now I'm going to be Youtubing Kanye guest spots all afternoon.
from like 2007-2009, He was seriously on fire with guest spots. In that time he had Put On, American Boy, Swagga Like Us, Go Hard, Knock You Down, Walkin On The Moon, Make Her Say, Run This Town, Forever & Erase Me. That is literally insane.
I forgot the Lollipop Remix which has the latex/late text lyric which is in the top 5 most definitive lines of the last ten years.
Jack - Put On was played approximately 23498739573957389573957 times while I was in college. That era I would take over party music (iPods) and just play kanye verses for 2 hours until I got bored.
Not even kidding, I'm listening to a "Kanye guest verse" playlist and Put on just started. Pardon me while I put on my timbo's and get gully for a moment.
Before football games I'd listen to DMX followed by the speech Al Pacino gives in Any Given Sunday followed by Down Bottom from Ryde or Die Vol. 1 (Drag-On was such a beast).
How angry you all get is absolutely hilarious. So thank you for that. My opinion barely differs from yours lmao. I'm saying he is great sometimes, but not consistantly enough, and everyone freaks out.
I love Jay-Z. He's one of my favorite rappers. If you can't admit that about 50% of his career contained lazy songwriting, I don't know what to tell you. Not at any point did I discount flow. Flow is actually why I love Jay-Z. He's a master of it. But when I listen to rap (Hold off everyone, another opinion is coming, so close your eyes) I care a little bit more about lyrics than I do flow. I'd rather listen to great lyrics with average flow, than great flow and average lyrics. If you have good flow, but your lyrics are dumb, I'd rather there just be an guitar riff or drum track mimicking what the rapper would have brought to the table. I realize this is you're MO Juggs, but you sound like a 12 year old girl defending Hannah Montana. Not everyone has the same opinion as you. You're opinion on opinions sucks balls. Jay-Z is just a little lazy lyrically. He does value flow more than lyrics. Again the main words here are: little, more. Those words are used to compare one thing to another, and believe it or not, are important.
You're right, telling people how awful their terrible opinions on things is my MO. Yours is apparently ignoring the questions posed to you in lieu of posting more awful opinions, because you have yet to give some examples of what you think "good" lyrics are, and what you think is "lazy" about some of these artists.
Methinks that you are sticking with the tried-and-true and oh-so-tiresome point of view that if an artist isn't rapping about politics or injustice or blah blah blah, and is instead talking about guns, druqs, money, etc., then that artist's lyrics are "lazy." Am I getting close?
Nope. Pretty off base actually.
And FWIW, nobody asked for examples of good lyrics. They asked for examples of good lyricists, and I obliged. If you're going to continue being a dick, and continue to treat me like I'm on the stand, I'll continue not giving a crap about your opinion. It's obviously working better than whatever you're doing.
Before football games I'd listen to DMX followed by the speech Al Pacino gives in Any Given Sunday followed by Down Bottom from Ryde or Die Vol. 1 (Drag-On was such a beast).
And FWIW, nobody asked for examples of good lyrics. They asked for examples of good lyricists, and I obliged. If you're going to continue being a weenie, and continue to treat me like I'm on the stand, I'll continue not giving a crap about your opinion. It's obviously working better than whatever you're doing.
And I'll continue to mock your sophomoric opinions until you crank out some bangers, Just Blaze.
I'd much rather have sophomoric opinions than pompous ones.
This playlist is a real rollercoaster ride of autotune. You have Kanye using it to supplement his already-strong lyrics, then have T-Pain saying the dumbest sh*t, but holding notes so the autotune goes bonkers.