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I'm sure you guys don't watch every Clemson game or know what's going on with recruiting and all that. So I can understand that you're maybe not seeing what I'm seeing. But this isn't just me talking, everyone here thinks this way.
Please provide evidence that "everyone" thinks Clemson is closing the gap on FSU.
This program is on the rise. We've had some of our best years ever. Things are looking up. All we need to do is get by FSU and SC. Other than that we're doing great things.
This is a fair comment. Clemson is looking solid, their program is in good shape, they've been near the top of recruiting classes lately...they're moving in the right direction. Fair.
So you ask exactly why I feel so confident about the future? The QB we just signed is the #1 rated in the country by some(that's better than Tajh). The offense we have is always going to produce. We have plenty of other weapons to use. Maybe not Sammy Watkins, but who knows? We just brought in 4 more 4 star WR to add to what we already have on the roster. We're like WRU right now they all want to come play in this offense.
Good stuff, sounds like your team picked up some players. But FSU picked more, and better ones. They have a better recruiting class. Explain how this means Clemson is getting closer to FSU, rather than far away.
But the most encouraging thing is the improvements in our defense. We will have one of the best DL in the country this year. Vic Beasley came back. There is plenty of young talent on that side of the ball as well. Trust me, I know how good FSU is, I saw it in person. But I really don't feel like we are as far behind. They may win again this year because we have to go to Tallahassee. But that doesn't mean that we're falling behind, things are still looking up for the program and it's only going to get better.
So, to recap: You've been saying over and over they have to lose at least two in a row, but FSU winning those two games doesn't mean anything.
You are THE BEST, Sang. The. Fucking. Best.
You keep misquoting me. The entire time I've said that FSU is better but there isn't that much of a gap. The gap isn't widening. I said this earlier. FSU has always out recruited Clemson according to those services. That hasn't changed. What has changed is that Clemson is recruiting better. Most importantly our coaches are better than they were in the past and they have all been here a couple years and appear to be staying put. Why wouldn't we get better?
Hahaha, I quoted you directly, you dope. Please tell me how I misquoted a direct quote. I never said you said Clemson was better, your entire dumb stance is that Clemson is "closing the gap."
If you say they're not, and FSU is widening it, then I'll go away.
You stay out of it. You haven't even been able to admit that Vandy has been better than Tenn.
When have I said that I don't admit that? Vandy has beaten UT two years in a row and has gone to multiple bowl games in a time frame in which Tennessee has gone to zero. It's not really much of an argument. I would say the gap has gotten much closer this year when we lost by 4 at the last minute which isn't as bad considering we were starting our 3rd string true freshman quarterback. Also, Tennessee got a recruiting class in the middle of the top 10 while Vandy's was barely inside the top 50. Lastly, according to your own quote, two losses in a row don't mean dick.
Since you wanna get frisky, I will also dispute your statement that "everyone here feels this way" as you brother in law gushed about the recruiting class just as much as you then stated he fully expected to win 7 to 9 games next season.
I've never seen you admit it. You still believe that Tenn is the better program even while they're beating you. I've been doing the same thing with SC, I'll admit that.
I believe he said 8 or 9 wins. I said we can still win 10. The only reason there is even doubt it is we're going to have a new QB and lots of other new starters on offense. But you heard him, he's as optimistic as I am about how good those guys are going to be. I said to you"see it's not just me".
Hahaha, I quoted you directly, you dope. Please tell me how I misquoted a direct quote. I never said you said Clemson was better, your entire dumb stance is that Clemson is "closing the gap."
If you say they're not, and FSU is widening it, then I'll go away.
I just said they're not widening it and explained why. Neither of us are going to change our minds.
Post by muppetstakethefarm on Feb 7, 2014 17:08:44 GMT -5
From from The State newspaper.
Clemson’s class was ranked as high as No. 12 by the national recruiting services, though there wasn’t a consensus with one rating it No. 28. That didn’t seem to trouble Swinney.
Not quite the FSU haul, or not quite the same haul as 11 to 27 other schools depending on whos opinion you value. Again, that is still a fantastic class...its just not closing the gap. Yes, you bring in the best QB Clemson has recruited in decades. Is that closing the gap in 2014 on the Heisman winning QB from FSU? Is it better than if Boyd could lineup under center in 2014? For 2014 specifically, would you rather have freshmen WRs starting or Sammy Watkins?
Lastly, from your above post attempting to discredit my/our opinion because we "probably dont watch all the Clemson games and dont know whats going on with recruiting". I do. Im just over 100 miles down SC 28 from Anderson. I am actually Clemson fan-in-law because so many on my wifes side graduated from there. You absolutely are entitled to your opinion on Clemson but if you dont know me or anyone else here, you cant have an opinion on our level of involvement just as we cant speak on yours. I attend the entire week of the Senior Bowl in Mobile. I am attending the NFL combine in two weeks. I attend NFL players football camps that bring in the best high school talent. Now that does not at all mean my opinions are correct or even more valid than others becuase I can admit I get it wrong alot too. It does not make me cooler than you or anyone else as its work for me and not a vacation. It means you can assume that my opinions in this thread are based on at the very least the same amount of accumen that you and everyone else here has. Stick to reasons you think your opinion is valid, not bringing down the value of other people to somewhere below you as a way to discredit thier opinion.
When have I said that I don't admit that? Vandy has beaten UT two years in a row and has gone to multiple bowl games in a time frame in which Tennessee has gone to zero. It's not really much of an argument. I would say the gap has gotten much closer this year when we lost by 4 at the last minute which isn't as bad considering we were starting our 3rd string true freshman quarterback. Also, Tennessee got a recruiting class in the middle of the top 10 while Vandy's was barely inside the top 50. Lastly, according to your own quote, two losses in a row don't mean dick.
Since you wanna get frisky, I will also dispute your statement that "everyone here feels this way" as you brother in law gushed about the recruiting class just as much as you then stated he fully expected to win 7 to 9 games next season.
I've never seen you admit it. You still believe that Tenn is the better program even while they're beating you. I've been doing the same thing with SC, I'll admit that.
I believe he said 8 or 9 wins. I said we can still win 10. The only reason there is even doubt it is we're going to have a new QB and lots of other new starters on offense. But you heard him, he's as optimistic as I am about how good those guys are going to be. I said to you"see it's not just me".
Tennessee has a better program. Vanderbilt has had better teams the last few years. Those are two different measures from my view.
I'm by no means a college football expert, but here is my take on this argument:
1. Sang is never going to admit that Clemson is anything other than Jesus Christ himself reincarnated into a collegiate football program. 2. FSU is definitely better than Clemson currently, and they are presently set up to continue being better for at least the next year or two. 3. FSU and Clemson are both the teams to beat in the ACC. FSU is 1. Clemson is 2. The rest of the conference is pretty irrelevant.
Clemson’s class was ranked as high as No. 12 by the national recruiting services, though there wasn’t a consensus with one rating it No. 28. That didn’t seem to trouble Swinney.
Not quite the FSU haul, or not quite the same haul as 11 to 27 other schools depending on whos opinion you value. Again, that is still a fantastic class...its just not closing the gap. Yes, you bring in the best QB Clemson has recruited in decades. Is that closing the gap in 2014 on the Heisman winning QB from FSU? Is it better than if Boyd could lineup under center in 2014? For 2014 specifically, would you rather have freshmen WRs starting or Sammy Watkins?
Lastly, from your above post attempting to discredit my/our opinion because we "probably dont watch all the Clemson games and dont know whats going on with recruiting". I do. Im just over 100 miles down SC 28 from Anderson. I am actually Clemson fan-in-law because so many on my wifes side graduated from there. You absolutely are entitled to your opinion on Clemson but if you dont know me or anyone else here, you cant have an opinion on our level of involvement just as we cant speak on yours. I attend the entire week of the Senior Bowl in Mobile. I am attending the NFL combine in two weeks. I attend NFL players football camps that bring in the best high school talent. Now that does not at all mean my opinions are correct or even more valid than others becuase I can admit I get it wrong alot too. It does not make me cooler than you or anyone else as its work for me and not a vacation. It means you can assume that my opinions in this thread are based on at the very least the same amount of accumen that you and everyone else here has. Stick to reasons you think your opinion is valid, not bringing down the value of other people to somewhere below you as a way to discredit thier opinion.
The truth is you never really know when it comes to recruiting. Our next QB could be way better than Tajh, we could have a WR better than Sammy or a great RB. Who thought Nick Marshall was going to lead Auburn to the championship game? No one. Also you never know how a team is going to come together. Should FSU be really good again? Yes, but there are no guarantees. I believe the only thing I would almost bet on is what I said that initially started all of this, FSU and Clemson are going to be at the top of the ACC. I'm not backing off that at all. It's definitely true and I don't see it changing.
If I offended you, that wasn't my intention. I don't know you or where you're from or how much you know about college football or my team in general. Flanzo though, doesn't know shit.
I'm by no means a college football expert, but here is my take on this argument:
1. Sang is never going to admit that Clemson is anything other than Jesus Christ himself reincarnated into a collegiate football program. 2. FSU is definitely better than Clemson currently, and they are presently set up to continue being better for at least the next year or two. 3. FSU and Clemson are both the teams to beat in the ACC. FSU is 1. Clemson is 2. The rest of the conference is pretty irrelevant.
This is pretty accurate. Seriously though, I know Clemson isn't the best but we're not far off right now and that's been my whole point.
I'm by no means a college football expert, but here is my take on this argument:
1. Sang is never going to admit that Clemson is anything other than Jesus Christ himself reincarnated into a collegiate football program. 2. FSU is definitely better than Clemson currently, and they are presently set up to continue being better for at least the next year or two. 3. FSU and Clemson are both the teams to beat in the ACC. FSU is 1. Clemson is 2. The rest of the conference is pretty irrelevant.
This is pretty accurate. Seriously though, I know Clemson isn't the best but we're not far off right now and that's been my whole point.
"I watch Clemson more than you guys, that's why they're good."
This is pretty accurate. Seriously though, I know Clemson isn't the best but we're not far off right now and that's been my whole point.
"I watch Clemson more than you guys, that's why they're good."
Yea that's exactly how I think. What I was saying was you may watch some of the games but you wouldn't know what kind of talent we have as backups or that we just brought in with this class. You assume Clemson is going to fall off because Tajh and Sammy are gone because you just don't know.
"I watch Clemson more than you guys, that's why they're good."
Yea that's exactly how I think. What I was saying was you may watch some of the games but you wouldn't know what kind of talent we have as backups or that we just brought in with this class. You assume Clemson is going to fall off because Tajh and Sammy are gone because you just don't know.
I know if the guys behind them on the depth chart were really good, they would have started.
And I know nothing about their recruiting class. Literally nothing. Same with FSU's. But people that do know about them all have FSU's ranked higher. So, FSU is getting better players this year, they already have better players, so they're probably staying better for a couple more years.
The truth is you never really know when it comes to recruiting. Our next QB could be way better than Tajh, we could have a WR better than Sammy or a great RB. Who thought Nick Marshall was going to lead Auburn to the championship game? No one. Also you never know how a team is going to come together. Should FSU be really good again? Yes, but there are no guarantees. I believe the only thing I would almost bet on is what I said that initially started all of this, FSU and Clemson are going to be at the top of the ACC. I'm not backing off that at all. It's definitely true and I don't see it changing.
If I offended you, that wasn't my intention. I don't know you or where you're from or how much you know about college football or my team in general. Flanzo though, doesn't know shit.
You didn't offend me.
All these things you say are correct. You never really do know until they play. It's that "who thought so and so was going to" and "you never really know" are not at all the same as "closing the gap".
I hope the recruits pan out. As an lifelong ND fan, I want Clemson to be a good win when the Irish come down here in 2015.
Yea that's exactly how I think. What I was saying was you may watch some of the games but you wouldn't know what kind of talent we have as backups or that we just brought in with this class. You assume Clemson is going to fall off because Tajh and Sammy are gone because you just don't know.
I know if the guys behind them on the depth chart were really good, they would have started.
And I know nothing about their recruiting class. Literally nothing. Same with FSU's. But people that do know about them all have FSU's ranked higher. So, FSU is getting better players this year, they already have better players, so they're probably staying better for a couple more years.
that's just not true. we only have 3 wr's on the field at once. we have more than that are good enough to start. we've put 2 in the nfl each of the last 2 years and we have at least 2 more on the team right now. plus the ones they just added.
I know if the guys behind them on the depth chart were really good, they would have started.
And I know nothing about their recruiting class. Literally nothing. Same with FSU's. But people that do know about them all have FSU's ranked higher. So, FSU is getting better players this year, they already have better players, so they're probably staying better for a couple more years.
that's just not true. we only have 3 wr's on the field at once. we have more than that are good enough to start. we've put 2 in the nfl each of the last 2 years and we have at least 2 more on the team right now. plus the ones they just added.
Tennessee put two in the NFL last year. Just sayin'.
I decided to go look up where the Beavers landed for recruiting this year. 49th overall, between GA Tech and Vanderbilt. 9th in the Pac 12.
Not going to go anywhere too fast if we keep pulling blah like this. But sadly Nike U is just 40 something miles away, with more money than God and all the nicest shit in the neighborhood.
I decided to go look up where the Beavers landed for recruiting this year. 49th overall, between GA Tech and Vanderbilt. 9th in the Pac 12.
Not going to go anywhere too fast if we keep pulling blah like this. But sadly Nike U is just 40 something miles away, with more money than God and all the nicest shit in the neighborhood.
Football recruiting is a lot different than basketball recruiting. A top 50 class isn't necessarily that far behind a top 20 class. There are sooooo many kids playing football and a lot of them are really good. Evaluating how good a football player is is a lot tougher than doing the same for basketball. Also good coaching a facilities can really elevate a program, even if the talent level of the 18 year olds on the team isn't as high.
Duke's class was rated around 50(although it is a small class, by average player rating its top 40), but I'm not the least bit worried. I've seen what that staff can do with less talent, and young talent. And that talent is only getting better, so no worries.
I decided to go look up where the Beavers landed for recruiting this year. 49th overall, between GA Tech and Vanderbilt. 9th in the Pac 12.
Not going to go anywhere too fast if we keep pulling blah like this. But sadly Nike U is just 40 something miles away, with more money than God and all the nicest shit in the neighborhood.
Football recruiting is a lot different than basketball recruiting. A top 50 class isn't necessarily that far behind a top 20 class. There are sooooo many kids playing football and a lot of them are really good. Evaluating how good a football player is is a lot tougher than doing the same for basketball. Also good coaching a facilities can really elevate a program, even if the talent level of the 18 year olds on the team isn't as high.
Duke's class was rated around 50(although it is a small class, by average player rating its top 40), but I'm not the least bit worried. I've seen what that staff can do with less talent, and young talent. And that talent is only getting better, so no worries.
This is accurate. There are so many players that there is sometime a disproportionate amount of time spent evaluating players from bigger time high schools that some players fall through the cracks. Also, you never know what can affect a recruit's ratings. For Tennessee examples, Jalen Hurd was well on his way to being a consensus 5 star prospect after his junior year. He injured his shoulder which put him out for his senior season. Consequentially, some of the recruiting services put him as a 5 star because that is what he was supposed to be while others left him as a 4 star because he couldn't prove himself in his senior season. Jakob Johnson is a 3 star ILB recruit yet tons of people are excited for him. The reason being he has mutant physical abilities, but he has only been playing football for a year. As a result, he's low now but has the potential to have a crazy good upside with the proper coaching. Lastly, it's better to see where you got players than how good they were. If you don't have anybody on the O-line, it's better to get 2 3 star OTs than 2 4 star WRs even though the class with the WRs will pull your rankings higher.
A lot of solid programs out there who have been doing more with less. Boise state for years, Vandy, UCF and Duke recently. Michigan St. doesnt ever have recruiting classes ranked up there with the likes of OSU and they are competitive every year and just won the Big 10. It's pretty cool to see and is a testament to those coaches to be able to find under the radar kids and coach them up to their potential. I follow recruiting very closely and I have seen countless times kids get out of the state of florida (I am a florida fan) and go on to do great things at other schools who were more under the radar type guys. So much talent in that state it's hard to evaluate everyone and these smaller schools come in and pick out the talent that the big 3 (UM, UF, and FSU) miss out on. That's why I am very excited with Roper from Duke, even though I know Cutcliff was the mastermind. Because it's clear Duke has been able to do more with less and at a school like Florida he should have a shot at pretty much any kid he wants.
In other news, did Eric Berry's brother just drop a shocker in his press photo?
For my Gators sake I hope this kid is nowhere near as good as his brother was. I have never respected a defensive player in college football more than I did Eric Berry. He was great. I remember Mcshay and Kiper for awhile saying that Taylor Mays would be picked over him and all I thought to myself was whoever does that is an idiot, there is no way that should happen.
FWIW I have been to Neyland to see Florida play UT twice, once in 2006 and the other time being in 2012 and Vols fans were awesome. Had a great time, loved the city and the stadium.
That's why I am very excited with Roper from Duke, even though I know Cutcliff was the mastermind. Because it's clear Duke has been able to do more with less and at a school like Florida he should have a shot at pretty much any kid he wants.
Enjoy Roper. Cutcliffe is the mastermind, but Roper has always been his guy. His offensive schemes are built to make the most out of speed. Its not necessarily a pro style offense, although I guess it is becoming more like one. Its all about getting the ball out quick and working the outside, definitely gets the most out of the quarterbacks too. I'm going to miss him.
proof that recruiting rankings really don't mean anything. Sammy Watkins wasn't even the highest rated wr in our class that year.
I think they do mean something. They don't always get it right though. A lot of top tier kids don't live up to their potential for other reason like off the field, or injuries but a good majority of them produce. Duke and those other teams have been competitive but theres a reason the teams with top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out are the ones playing for National titles. Stole this chart from a CBS article I read recently.
Odds of Becoming an All-American, by Recruiting Ranking 5–Star: 1 in 4. Top 100: 1 in 6. 4–Star: 1 in 16. 3–Star: 1 in 56. 2–Star: 1 in 127. All FBS Signees: 1 in 45.
In the 2011 NFL Draft The first round had: Five-Star (7): Cam Newton; A.J. Green; Patrick Peterson; Julio Jones; Tyron Smith; Blaine Gabbert; Jonathan Baldwin. Four-Star (12): Von Miller; Jake Locker; Robert Quinn; Mike Pouncey; Corey Liuget; Adrian Clayborn; Phil Taylor; Danny Watkins; James Carpenter; Mark Ingram; Cameron Heyward; Derek Sherrod. Three-Star (11): Marcell Dareus; Aldon Smith; Christian Ponder; Nick Fairley; Ryan Kerrigan; Nate Solder; Prince Amukamara; Cameron Jordan; Jimmy Smith; Gabe Carimi; Muhammad Wilkerson. Two-Star (2): J.J. Watt; Anthony Castonzo.
In the 2012 NfL Draft the first round had: 4 5* recruits 15 4* recruits 10 3* recruits 3 were lower or unranked guys.
In the 2013 Nfl draft the first round had: 4 5* recruits 13 4* recruits 11 3* recruits 4 were lowere or unranked
I think this proves that although they clearly aren't always right about every single player, that they do a good job with all things considered. in each case over half of the guys were blue chippers, being 4 star or above. Sammy wasn't rated as the top guy but he was still a consensus top 5 Wide out in his class. Also I thought Sammy would for sure be a Gator after his brother Jaylen went to UF Oh what could've been. Maybe we could have actually made a bowl game this year. lol
That's why I am very excited with Roper from Duke, even though I know Cutcliff was the mastermind. Because it's clear Duke has been able to do more with less and at a school like Florida he should have a shot at pretty much any kid he wants.
Enjoy Roper. Cutcliffe is the mastermind, but Roper has always been his guy. His offensive schemes are built to make the most out of speed. Its not necessarily a pro style offense, although I guess it is becoming more like one. Its all about getting the ball out quick and working the outside, definitely gets the most out of the quarterbacks too. I'm going to miss him.
I am very excited for Roper. Everything I have read about the guy has been good. And if David Cutcliffe trusts you with helping coach his qb's and play calling, well that's all I need to know.
proof that recruiting rankings really don't mean anything. Sammy Watkins wasn't even the highest rated wr in our class that year.
I think they do mean something. They don't always get it right though. A lot of top tier kids don't live up to their potential for other reason like off the field, or injuries but a good majority of them produce. Duke and those other teams have been competitive but theres a reason the teams with top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out are the ones playing for National titles. Stole this chart from a CBS article I read recently.
Odds of Becoming an All-American, by Recruiting Ranking 5–Star: 1 in 4. Top 100: 1 in 6. 4–Star: 1 in 16. 3–Star: 1 in 56. 2–Star: 1 in 127. All FBS Signees: 1 in 45.
In the 2011 NFL Draft The first round had: Five-Star (7): Cam Newton; A.J. Green; Patrick Peterson; Julio Jones; Tyron Smith; Blaine Gabbert; Jonathan Baldwin. Four-Star (12): Von Miller; Jake Locker; Robert Quinn; Mike Pouncey; Corey Liuget; Adrian Clayborn; Phil Taylor; Danny Watkins; James Carpenter; Mark Ingram; Cameron Heyward; Derek Sherrod. Three-Star (11): Marcell Dareus; Aldon Smith; Christian Ponder; Nick Fairley; Ryan Kerrigan; Nate Solder; Prince Amukamara; Cameron Jordan; Jimmy Smith; Gabe Carimi; Muhammad Wilkerson. Two-Star (2): J.J. Watt; Anthony Castonzo.
In the 2012 NfL Draft the first round had: 4 5* recruits 15 4* recruits 10 3* recruits 3 were lower or unranked guys.
In the 2013 Nfl draft the first round had: 4 5* recruits 13 4* recruits 11 3* recruits 4 were lowere or unranked
I think this proves that although they clearly aren't always right about every single player, that they do a good job with all things considered. in each case over half of the guys were blue chippers, being 4 star or above. Sammy wasn't rated as the top guy but he was still a consensus top 5 Wide out in his class. Also I thought Sammy would for sure be a Gator after his brother Jaylen went to UF Oh what could've been. Maybe we could have actually made a bowl game this year. lol
yea, I'm just saying they get it really wrong sometimes. he is clearly the best wr in the country and he wasn't even rated the best on his team. also look at wrong they had JJ Watt. but you're right if you're getting high recruiting rankings usually you're going to be good. but there are exceptions there too. look at Texas and Florida lately. they still get the recruits they are just not producing. like I was saying earlier FSU never stopped recruiting highly, but they still went through a pretty long stretch there where they didn't produce.
Yes sir I think that was definitely Bowden. He was done, and more worried about records than the well being of FSU. You can tell the coaches who do less with more (Cutcliffe, Briles, James Franklin) and the guys who do less with more (Mark Richt, Lane Kiffin, and recently Mack Brown). There's no excuse for Mark Richt to have not played for at least one national championship since going to Georgia. He consistently gets top players and classes and still underachieves. Pretty sure he's only won 2 SEC championships since he got there in 2001. Good coach but just isn't getting the job done
I'm just saying they get it really wrong sometimes.
Also, I would throw it out there that JJ Watt was a two way player in high school and played tight end during his first year at Central Michigan and only moved to play defensive end in college after he tranferred to Wisconsin.
For my Gators sake I hope this kid is nowhere near as good as his brother was. I have never respected a defensive player in college football more than I did Eric Berry. He was great. I remember Mcshay and Kiper for awhile saying that Taylor Mays would be picked over him and all I thought to myself was whoever does that is an idiot, there is no way that should happen.
FWIW I have been to Neyland to see Florida play UT twice, once in 2006 and the other time being in 2012 and Vols fans were awesome. Had a great time, loved the city and the stadium.
There are actually two Berry brothers who signed with Tennessee this year. They're twins, Evan and Elliot. Evan is a CB. Elliot is an ATH and played RB and S in high school. Evan is supposed to be a little better, but we'll see as time goes on.
For my Gators sake I hope this kid is nowhere near as good as his brother was. I have never respected a defensive player in college football more than I did Eric Berry. He was great. I remember Mcshay and Kiper for awhile saying that Taylor Mays would be picked over him and all I thought to myself was whoever does that is an idiot, there is no way that should happen.
FWIW I have been to Neyland to see Florida play UT twice, once in 2006 and the other time being in 2012 and Vols fans were awesome. Had a great time, loved the city and the stadium.
There are actually two Berry brothers who signed with Tennessee this year. They're twins, Evan and Elliot. Evan is a CB. Elliot is an ATH and played RB and S in high school. Evan is supposed to be a little better, but we'll see as time goes on.