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What is unethical about asking an agent if his band is playing Bonnaroo? They don't have to answer.
Also, its not like we are professional journalists. There are no ethics involved in a Joe Schmo wanting to know who will be playing a music festival.
Too funny.
What kind of job do you do?
I handle logistics for a chemical company. I don't want to be bothered with people asking me if the weather is good enough to go outside without umbrella. Nothing wrong for me to answer it, but it is not my job. I want to concentrate on the things my company pays me to do. But if I get 100 questions like that every day my job won't be fun/easy anymore and my boss won't like it if my other work isn't being done anymore.
What is unethical about asking an agent if his band is playing Bonnaroo? They don't have to answer.
Also, its not like we are professional journalists. There are no ethics involved in a Joe Schmo wanting to know who will be playing a music festival.
Too funny.
It's more about the lying and the mass e-mails that agencies are receiving asking the same things. We don't want to be annoying. So we're going back to how the thread originally was. Simple as that.
Honestly I don't understand what changed. GO ahead and try to deny it, but everyone who participated in this thread knew what was happening was unethical. We also had every reason to believe SP/ACE knew about it and if if you thought they were OK with us doing this you were in denial. If the mods were OK with it before I don't understand why you wouldn't be OK with it now.
What is unethical about asking an agent if his band is playing Bonnaroo? They don't have to answer.
Also, its not like we are professional journalists. There are no ethics involved in a Joe Schmo wanting to know who will be playing a music festival.
Too funny.
What kind of job do you do?
I handle logistics for a chemical company. I don't want to be bothered with people asking me if the weather is good enough to go outside without umbrella. Nothing wrong for me to answer it, but it is not my job. I want to concentrate on the things my company pays me to do. But if I get 100 questions like that every day my job won't be fun/easy anymore and my boss won't like it if my other work isn't being done anymore.
Get it?
I agree if you work for a chemical company and people emailed you everyday about going outside that would be annoying because that is not your business to do, and I also agree there is a line that some people may cross with agents and become annoying, unethical however? They are in a business of publicity. Agents are there to make money for their artists and themselves So it seems right that leaking that they will be at roo and creating a buzz for the artist is a good idea. They do have their email address posted in a way that the public can reach them without any real sleuthing. I dont think the fact that inforooers are asking is annoying because agents have to expect that for any festival, I think it may be the volume of emails that is annoying. I personally don't believe anyone is unethical. I think maybe Capps is annoyed because lets face it who wants their children to know there Christmas presents before christmas..
Honestly, now that contacting managers etc is (discouraged? Forbidden? Frowned upon?) I am kind of glad. On one hand, it's been fun watching this thread and getting a band or 3 each day, but on the other hand, as some have said, it takes some of the "Christmas" out of the lineup drop. Anticipation before, and the actual reveal is a lot of fun, and while I like seeing who is confirmed or quasi confirmed early, I think if like not knowing that Tame Impala was probably on the list and then actually seeing it on the poster for the first time and being totally psyched.
Before you say "well just stay out if this thread then" you're right - but I have no self control when it comes to some things, and this is one of them. It is what it is. Double edged sword
another point is maybe the agents are acting unethical for answering fans when they ask but I am sure if they are they are fully aware when they answer because they are ok with that risk to give their artist that buzz before roo.
Honestly I don't understand what changed. GO ahead and try to deny it, but everyone who participated in this thread knew what was happening was unethical. We also had every reason to believe SP/ACE knew about it and if if you thought they were OK with us doing this you were in denial. If the mods were OK with it before I don't understand why you wouldn't be OK with it now.
No agent talk? Private forums? You've changed inforoo...you changed.
yeah I mean I wasn't contacting any one at all and it was fun see all the progress. Whether this thread was here or not I would still be going crazy waiting to see the lineup for myself because in my mind nothing is set in stone till bonnaroo drops it.
Being someone who has been on the other side of the fence, I understand and 100% back up the moderators on this decision. This board is not officially associated with the festival and promoters. In the past we have had a good relationship with the promoters and it would be in our best interest to keep it that way. I can see things going south very quickly if we don't have rules to abide by.
Honestly I don't understand what changed. GO ahead and try to deny it, but everyone who participated in this thread knew what was happening was unethical. We also had every reason to believe SP/ACE knew about it and if if you thought they were OK with us doing this you were in denial. If the mods were OK with it before I don't understand why you wouldn't be OK with it now.
Who is trying to deny it?
If you view the first page of the thread I say pretty early that I don't like the lying to agents and that asking a band at a show or on twitter and facebook is fair game.
Personally, I didn't see much of a problem with e-mailing an agent and asking him straight up. He can either confirm or deny. He could even ignore the e-mail.
But it became a slippery slope type of thing. Just because we let it go on doesn't mean all the mods approved of the tactics and there have been discussions in the past about cracking down on this. It finally reached a point where we felt something had to be said.
What "changed" was that we heard from LLL that an AC/SF employee told her it's annoying and to stop hounding the agents.
And they are watching. A direct quote from an AC/SF employee:
"Angela, lastly. This is all funny but absolutely unethical. Inforoo'ers should leave the agents alone."
Up until this point we have not ever heard a peep from SP/ACE about this. Had we been told at any point to stop or that it's annoying or something like that maybe we would have made the change earlier. The fact is that there seems to be many more people e-mailing the agencies than in the past. We haven't really had a year where agents respond and "troll" us and tell us to stop bugging them.
I'm sorry that you find this to be a point of contention but this is the first year that we've had both booking agents AND an employee from AC/SF tell us to stop it. The mods had a meeting and this was discussed and we decided to bring it back to what the thread originally used to be which is contacting bands straight up.
People can do whatever they want to do. If they are going to e-mail booking agents we can't stop them. But from now on we've decided to not use those confirmations on inforoo. While you think that nothing has changed we felt having two different places tell us to stop and that we were being annoying is a difference from previous years. So the mods decided to give an official stance on it. I hope this helps you understand where it's coming from.
Honestly I don't understand what changed. GO ahead and try to deny it, but everyone who participated in this thread knew what was happening was unethical. We also had every reason to believe SP/ACE knew about it and if if you thought they were OK with us doing this you were in denial. If the mods were OK with it before I don't understand why you wouldn't be OK with it now.
We didn't encourage the method before, but it was kind of something we turned a blind eye to.
We all talked it over last night and came to a decision that we would now discourage it. Especially considering the feedback from SF/AC and the dolt who posted it on Bonnaroo's FB page.
I guess my point is at the end of the day we all knew what was happening was bad, the fact that someone told us that it was bad doesn't change much in my mind.
I would say the policy is that we can contact anyone who has their email readily available online including agents, but no making up stories
Post by lukescrazyarms on Jan 9, 2013 12:02:19 GMT -5
Completely random and not really going with the discussion of whats going on right now...but does anyone else feel like they look forward to the day the band list comes out like they used to look forward to Christmas morning??? I could care less about Christmas anymore but I find it harder and harder to sleep the closer we get to the announcement
One more note, I don't think we owe anything to SP/ACE. If anything they owe us. I don't disagree that there is no reason to harm any potential relationship, but as far as I can tell there hasn't been much of a relationship recently, other than the little Moog thing.
We make some serious money for them not just from the members here but the free advertising we do for them too
What is unethical about asking an agent if his band is playing Bonnaroo? They don't have to answer.
Also, its not like we are professional journalists. There are no ethics involved in a Joe Schmo wanting to know who will be playing a music festival.
Too funny.
What kind of job do you do?
I handle logistics for a chemical company. I don't want to be bothered with people asking me if the weather is good enough to go outside without umbrella. Nothing wrong for me to answer it, but it is not my job. I want to concentrate on the things my company pays me to do. But if I get 100 questions like that every day my job won't be fun/easy anymore and my boss won't like it if my other work isn't being done anymore.
Get it?
Worst analogy ever? Not sure, but possibly.
An agent is DIRECTLY involved in booking his band. Therefore, asking an agent a question about his bands booking is in his job description. He can choose to answer these questions by fans, or he can decline, but is it is not unrelated to his job.
Being someone who has been on the other side of the fence, I understand and 100% back up the moderators on this decision. This board is not officially associated with the festival and promoters. In the past we have had a good relationship with the promoters and it would be in our best interest to keep it that way. I can see things going south very quickly if we don't have rules to abide by.
What's this relationship you speak of? I've been coming to this board since 2008, and haven't seen Bonnaroo do anything for the board, lol.
Did I miss news of a ticket giveaway or something? (seriously, did I?)
If you mean having their PR team ("Gary") come on here to give hints about clues, you are foolish to think that is them doing us a favour. It is them doing an excellent job of driving the marketing train.
Not trying to sound like an ass, but honestly, would could Bonnaroo do that would effect the board negatively? I really want to know, as I cannot think of anything.
Post by Roo'adelphia on Jan 9, 2013 12:23:12 GMT -5
Id rather them hand us next years lineup on the way out on Monday then wait till the following February. For Christmas i send my mom amazon links...when people say i hate surprises, yea im that guy. Its not excitement that day before the lineup drops, its torture. If exploring public domain to contact an individual (called research ) is wrong, i dont wanna be right. If ethics is involved dont hassle or bombard them but free info from a loose lipped agent is a god send. 1 biotch sent an email with "unethical" and worlds up in flames.
I guess my point is at the end of the day we all knew what was happening was bad, the fact that someone told us that it was bad doesn't change much in my mind.
One person e-mailing an agent asking a question isn't bad. Many people (we don't know how many...could be some that lurk and don't post much here) contacting the same booking agencies asking the same stuff (or making multiple e-mails like one for each band) becomes annoying.
Trying to be clear here that it's not so much an issue of ethics as it is an issue of being annoying to the people who put on Bonnaroo (and those they work with).
I would say the policy is that we can contact anyone who has their email readily available online including agents, but no making up stories
We have no way to regulate/moderate the e-mails people send. They could lie to the agents and then tell us they didn't. The easiest thing for the Inforoo Artist Direct Confirmation thread would be to only use direct confirmations from the artists.
If someone on their own e-mails a booking agency and gets a response and posts about it in the undercard speculation thread there's not much we can really do. We just won't be using them for this thread.
One more note, I don't think we owe anything to SP/ACE. If anything they owe us. I don't disagree that there is no reason to harm any potential relationship, but as far as I can tell there hasn't been much of a relationship recently, other than the little Moog thing.
We make some serious money for them not just from the members here but the free advertising we do for them too
It can be argued that SP/ACE gives us insider. Wouldn't want to lose her.
Being someone who has been on the other side of the fence, I understand and 100% back up the moderators on this decision. This board is not officially associated with the festival and promoters. In the past we have had a good relationship with the promoters and it would be in our best interest to keep it that way. I can see things going south very quickly if we don't have rules to abide by.
What's this relationship you speak of? I've been coming to this board since 2008, and haven't seen Bonnaroo do anything for the board, lol.
Did I miss news of a ticket giveaway or something? (seriously, did I?)
If you mean having their PR team ("Gary") come on here to give hints about clues, you are foolish to think that is them doing us a favour. It is them doing an excellent job of driving the marketing train.
Not trying to sound like an ass, but honestly, would could Bonnaroo do that would effect the board negatively? I really want to know, as I cannot think of anything.
I'm no mod but I do know a few of the interactions. There is Matt's tree, which likely also lead to Bonnaroo removing the link to Inforoo from their website.
A couple of the bigwigs from ACE went to the Moogfest brunch and teased some stuff and blow up Phi's ego to where he now thinks he is the second coming of insider.
There are various people who have inside connections and sometimes are able to get info, which is rarely made public.
If agents and other band reps are now off limits you just NCAA death sentenced this thread.
I understand it must be annoying to get a ton of bs emails asking stuff they probably are frowned upon for answering but hit delete, or just ignore it.
If you can't take a hit and keep emailing the same agent then your a d!ck and I don't want your tainted confirmation anyway.
There should be an inforoo contact that agents can b!tch to if some roosters overstep their boundaries. I think this thread is too important to prospective rooers who aren't sure if they want to drop this kinda cash on a fest the may have never gone to before.
What's this relationship you speak of? I've been coming to this board since 2008, and haven't seen Bonnaroo do anything for the board, lol.
Did I miss news of a ticket giveaway or something? (seriously, did I?)
If you mean having their PR team ("Gary") come on here to give hints about clues, you are foolish to think that is them doing us a favour. It is them doing an excellent job of driving the marketing train.
Not trying to sound like an ass, but honestly, would could Bonnaroo do that would effect the board negatively? I really want to know, as I cannot think of anything.
I'm no mod but I do know a few of the interactions. There is Matt's tree, which likely also lead to Bonnaroo removing the link to Inforoo from their website.
What's the story here? Just curious; I didn't know that Inforoo was ever officially affiliated with Bonnaroo.
It is not like these emails are private information. They are in almost every case posted on the bands website. It takes 15 seconds to read an email and ignore it. The booking agents can get over it imo
I'm no mod but I do know a few of the interactions. There is Matt's tree, which likely also lead to Bonnaroo removing the link to Inforoo from their website.
What's the story here? Just curious; I didn't know that Inforoo was ever officially affiliated with Bonnaroo.
Back a few years ago Bonnaroo got rid of the hell hole of a forum they had on their website and replaced it with a link to inforoo.
About a month after Matt died that link was removed. Although there is no proof either way there was much speculation that Bonnaroo didn't like the PR we were giving them that people die at Bonnaroo and you better be careful or you might be the next one.