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Church is weird but I think Spirituality isn't. My folks wanted me to come with them to Catholic Mass on Easter Sunday so I did. The thing that I found weird in church was this veneration of the institution of religion. The words they used "submit yourself to a higher power", "Only through Jesus can you be saved" in a subtle way is trying to make you bow down to a higher authority. Yet when it comes to the good works of Jesus (heal the sick, help the poor, stand up against unjust laws)you know the stuff Gandhi and MLK Jr practiced, it goes unspoken. Too many churches in my life (both Catholic and Protestant) have done this and it bothers me because the good ethical messages get put aside while messages of power supercede. Seriously, for those that find Jesus hokey or whatever. Try reading the beautitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, it is some pretty inspirational stuff. Example, Those who have been punished by righteousness, their kingdom is in heaven. That's a seriously strong message about love even when your opponents seem unjust. In the end, religion is not in the church but in the spirituality and community you find with others. Whether it be Bonnaroo or wherever. The good parts of religion are the messages that guide you or help you promote good.
Its all silly. And im not going to be all PC and say i respect people's belief in this silly stuff, because i dont. Ill respect you as a person, but not your silly bedtime story. You were raised this way people, not born this way.
Albert Einstein believed in God. Would you call him a simple mind who believed in bedtime stories?
My uncle was at Eglin, out by Fort Walton Beach. He was an evangelical nutjob. Must be something about the Air Force, or that part of the South.
Him and his wife are now off in some Scandinavian country indoctrinating the locals.
I'm gonna go with "That part of the south"! I grew up on and around air force bases. I'd never encountered anything like that in my life up to that time. Another weird thing about Tyndall is that most of the friends I made on base had lived there their whole life. None of their parents were Officers, they joined in our around Panama and were never assigned to another base. Eh getting off topic.
Church is kinda weird to me, and Panama City circa 1985 was the fucking twilight zone!
Its all silly. And im not going to be all PC and say i respect people's belief in this silly stuff, because i dont. Ill respect you as a person, but not your silly bedtime story. You were raised this way people, not born this way.
Albert Einstein believed in God. Would you call him a simple mind who believed in bedtime stories? [/quote]
Well i didnt use the word simple minded. But yeah he believed in bedtime stories if he believed in all of that. So I guess we can safely say that god told him to build the a-bomb?
My uncle was at Eglin, out by Fort Walton Beach. He was an evangelical nutjob. Must be something about the Air Force, or that part of the South.
Him and his wife are now off in some Scandinavian country indoctrinating the locals.
I'm gonna go with "That part of the south"! I grew up on and around air force bases. I'd never encountered anything like that in my life up to that time. Another weird thing about Tyndall is that most of the friends I made on base had lived there their whole life. None of their parents were Officers, they joined in our around Panama and were never assigned to another base. Eh getting off topic.
Church is kinda weird to me, and Panama City circa 1985 was the quacking twilight zone!
I'm probably gonna get flamed for what I'm about to say. I might even get a 10% warning or something. Anyway, yes, church is weird. All it boils down to is people needing to have their egos patted like little children. This includes my own religion, tantric buddhism, of which I have studied extensively and am ordained. We don't call it "church", we call it "sangha", and yes, sangha is also weird. Think walking on water is a weird story? How about stapling the sun's shadow to a bar table with a dagger to avoid paying the bartab at sundown? Weird stuff all around. Atheism is weird too. I realize that most atheists are just people who believe that the christian god does not exist. Well, I don't either, nor do I believe in Zeus or Odin or Brahma or Allah or Avalokitesvara, et cetera ad nauseum. I don't even believe that Jesus was an actual person. Considering that he was hanging out with two groups of people who were renowned for writing stuff down for posterity (jews and romans), there isn't actually any evidence of him being any more than a fairy tale. I like reading the stories though, just like how I like reading Tolkien or Harry Potter. They're interesting for the most part and have social value. As strange as all these stories can get, they all have an underlying theme: be good to each other. If you belong to a church that makes you feel like they (and you) are the only ones who are right and everyone else is wrong, you're quacking it up. Go somewhere else. You're just spreading unhappiness and confusing yourself. Stop that. It's stupid. Don't be stupid. You are weird. Yes, you. It's a fact, weirdo. Look around until you see another person. That person is also a weirdo, weirdo. Their mom is a weirdo. YOUR mom is a weirdo. It's okay, mine is too.
THAT! and this.......
How dare you call my mom a weirdo, pal. She collects beanie babies, drinks wine through a straw and wears cool hats that were only fashionable in 1960's England. So don't call her a weirdo, kay? thanks bud. I, however, am a self-ordained weirdo. 35rd degree to be exact. and we have a mantra that we repeat every "Tewsdey". I goes a lil' sump'n like dis......"Just say no to the three C's....No Church, no Cops, and no Condoms"
Another weird thing about Tyndall is that most of the friends I made on base had lived there their whole life. None of their parents were Officers, they joined in our around Panama and were never assigned to another base.
That is weird! My dad was Navy enlisted and he was reassigned every four years, typically. CA, SC, CT, VA, IN, TN, GA, back to CT and VA...
I have tried to be a student of nearly all religions. Knowledge is power etc... There are a million and a half angles on this but here's what I believe so far
Regarding Christianity:I have discounted Christianity personally for 2 major reasons:
1) In whatever flavor, the bible is the basis for all of Christianity. Is is purported to be the word of God. It was written by men. If it is TRULY the word of God, well then I feel it has been "tweaked" or changed based on the the authors wishes or desires to add their own slant or angle.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that if that is indeed the case, Man or men have polluted the message with their own agenda and changed it in many ways over time.
OR it really wasn't the "word of God" to start with..in either case its validity is nullified.
2) A basic tenant for Christianity is forgiveness. No matter how vile or disgusting you may behave, you are forgiven if you "confess your sins and accept Jesus. Rape Kill steal whatever, confess and accept and you will be absolved.
If God is so forgiving, why does he have such a hard-on for the "original sin" ?? I can;'t get that one...
Is there a higher power? In the words of Penn Jillete: " I don't know" This works for me...
I mean no disrespect to anyone...feel free to worship the God of your choice....
I have tried to be a student of nearly all religions. Knowledge is power etc... There are a million and a half angles on this but here's what I believe so far
Regarding Christianity:I have discounted Christianity personally for 2 major reasons:
1) In whatever flavor, the bible is the basis for all of Christianity. Is is purported to be the word of God. It was written by men. If it is TRULY the word of God, well then I feel it has been "tweaked" or changed based on the the authors wishes or desires to add their own slant or angle.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that if that is indeed the case, Man or men have polluted the message with their own agenda and changed it in many ways over time.
OR it really wasn't the "word of God" to start with..in either case its validity is nullified.
2) A basic tenant for Christianity is forgiveness. No matter how vile or disgusting you may behave, you are forgiven if you "confess your sins and accept Jesus. Rape Kill steal whatever, confess and accept and you will be absolved.
If God is so forgiving, why does he have such a hard-on for the "original sin" ?? I can;'t get that one...
Is there a higher power? In the words of Penn Jillete: " I don't know" This works for me...
I mean no disrespect to anyone...feel free to worship the God of your choice....
cool video!
Since this has been a thread of open discussion, may I address these two points of yours? Keep in mind that, as a priest, I am representing the Eastern Orthodox Christian tradition, which maintains the same theology and practices in an unbroken lineage dating back to the Apostles. For people only familiar with Protestantism, Evangelical Christianity, or Catholicism, it's very different (read: they all changed Christianity a lot from what it was when it was founded).
First, the Bible. It is divinely inspired, it is the Word of God, it is the most important and sacred writing we have as a community of believers. Is it all meant to be taken literally? Heck, no. Is it all factually accurate? How could it be, with blatant contradictions? But, there is a difference between facts and Truth. Allegories, for instance, aren't factually correct but get at a larger truth. So for us, to ask whether the Creation story in Genesis is correct or not isn't even the right question to ask. Evolution is entirely possible. Whether the universe was created in seven days or not is not the point; the deeper Truth relayed by the story is that God is God, that He loves us and created us in His image, that we separated ourselves from Him and by so doing allowed sin to enter into creation. The Bible is not meant to be read lightly, and it is also meant to be read extensively and with an open heart (all of which, together, is very hard to do!). It's not always meant to be read literally—after all, that often just wasn't the style of writing for the ancient Hebrews—, but it contains a Truth about the human condition and our relationship to God that simply cannot be found anywhere else.
Second, the theology of forgiveness. Here, Orthodox theology is very different from what you've proposed. To begin, you need to throw out any concept you may have about substitutionary atonement, or the need for mankind to pay off the "debt" of their sinfulness to a vengeful God. That's not what sin is about. As I said before, it's a fundamental separation from God. In our creation, we were united to Him in a mystical way (not that we were part of God, or gods ourselves, but rather that His love permeated His creation and united all to Him... that's the best way I can put it here). Sin severed that union, and creation was set on a course toward destruction, which is the fate of anything separated from its Creator. Then, it was not a matter of His forgiveness or His judgment that we were OK, because it was through our own free will that we had been separated from God. Man had to re-unite man to God, but man did not have the ability to do that. This was why the Son of God was incarnate as a man and lived on earth, because in the person of Jesus Christ the fullness of God and the fullness of man were re-united. By His nature, he bridged the gap of our nature and His nature. By His death on the cross, he conquered sin by being without it (yes, there's no "original sin", I'll get to that). By His resurrection, He conquered the final barrier to our union with God: death itself. Man is now able once again to be re-united with God, but the problem of sin still remains on an individual basis. That is, anyone can still freely choose to separate themselves from God through sin. But the separation is on the part of the person, not a wrathful judgment of God. God loves us unconditionally and to an incomprehensible degree. He remains the sovereign judge of all creation, and could choose to send us to hell if he wished, but we would rather see every one of us saved and re-united to Him. One of the early Church fathers said that, in Christ's conquering of death, God made a judgment on judgment itself. He chose, rather than to be just (for it would be entirely just to destroy us all) to have mercy on us and give us every opportunity to freely choose Him. One very, very important thing to remember is that sin is not so much an offense against God (like, we then owe Him something to make up for our sin), but that it is an illness of the soul. Sin is something for which we need continual healing, which is why the practice of one's Christian faith is a life-long, continual process: there is no "once saved, always saved". If we sin, we are putting ourselves out of God's grace, again not because some type of scales are set off, but because we have allowed a spiritual illness to take over rather than be purified through a deep, mystical experience of God. We shouldn't over-emphasize confession or forgiveness of particular sins: saying your sorry for doing something bad won't make a difference unless we are seeking a genuine internal change that will heal us of the spiritual illness related to the sin. It might be helpful to remember that the original word for sin, in Greek, is "amartia", which literally means "missing the mark". We are not where we should be, and need to correct ourselves for our own sake. With this kind of concept about sin, original sin no longer makes sense. We don't each inherit sin from the moment we are born, but there is in a sense a "mark" of sin on us as we are each born into a world permeated by sin. This speaks to the barriers of nature, sin and death that separated man from God, which I referred to earlier. The bottom line is that we have the opportunity to have a very real, very personal experience of God, but we work on it every day of our lives. "Accepting Jesus" isn't the end, but only the beginning of purifying ourselves, learning to love others as truly as God does, forgiveness, humility, piety, self-sacrifice, and on an on. It's a truly beautiful thing; I've seen it many times.
If anyone actually read all of that, I applaud you. If anyone wants to discuss this kind of thing further, feel free to PM me.
I'm not tryin to start an agrumemt but this thread is offensive. I am a Christian and believe in god. If this was a thread about how Islam is weird (i am not saying it is) or being gay was weird the thread would be locked and the OP would be banned. By the way I have no problems with Muslims or people who are gay. To each his own (in all aspects of life). I just find it weird that people can make fun of christians and there practices on this board and it is ok. This is not an attack on Nod either. I know people have their opinions. I am just pointing out the hiprocricy.
I'm not tryin to start an agrumemt but this thread is offensive. I am a Christian and believe in god. If this was a thread about how Islam is weird (i am not saying it is) or being gay was weird the thread would be locked and the OP would be banned. By the way I have no problems with Muslims or people who are gay. To each his own (in all aspects of life). I just find it weird that people can make fun of christians and there practices on this board and it is ok. This is not an attack on Nod either. I know people have their opinions. I am just pointing out the hiprocricy.
the thread says church is weird. i mean, in my head that can be substituted with any location of worship: mosque, temple, synagogue. i don't know about anyone else but all of that is weird to me. my body is my temple and the only place of worship i need (other than maybe a beautiful atmosphere, like being out in nature).
i don't think nod meant for it to turn into a thread that would solely make critiques or judgements of christianity - it's everyone's opinion. all religions are hypocritical in one way, all religions have their downfalls. if people want to discuss it openly, and have opinions on it, that is their right. we are all human, religion is human, everything is innately flawed.
i haven't read back through this thread in awhile, but i don't think anyone is personally attacking christians - just disagreeing with it as a religion. if they are that is wrong, and those messages should be removed.
regardless of all of that, i absolutely 100% disagree with equating this thread to one about being muslim or gay. that's not fair and it assumes those groups have problems with being critiqued. as a very proud lesbian if someone thinks who i am is bad or wrong, so be it. i am not going to get my panties in a bunch if someone disagrees - i draw the line when people are discriminatory, insensitive, demeaning, and horrible folks all around. this is not the same thing.
Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 8:12:51 GMT -5 by daytripperr - Back to Top
I'm not tryin to start an agrumemt but this thread is offensive. I am a Christian and believe in god.
I am sorry you feel this way. I think it has been a legitimate discussion, with both sides being represented. Although I will grant you more lopsided against.
You do have a valid argument. My sister is a devout christian, and she constantly reminds me that her faith is fair game for media jokes, but Islam is off limits.
For what it is worth, I am a Pagan, and I believe in God.
You do have a valid argument. My sister is a devout christian, and she constantly reminds me that her faith is fair game for media jokes, but Islam is off limits.
For what it is worth, I am a Pagan, and I believe in God.
as someone with both family and friends who are devout christians AND muslims, i really disagree. islam is not off limits - it's just most people don't know how to criticize or critique without being discriminatory or racist. and, as a muslim, you live with the constant reminder that simply because of your name, religion, or how you look (in this country) you can be profiled, jailed, or scrutinized at an airport. i don't know any christians who deal with that on a daily basis for the reason of being viewed as a christian.
Post by nodepression on Apr 22, 2012 10:00:34 GMT -5
I started this thread on Easter after going to mass for the first time since Christmas. I mostly meant it as, being in church is weird, there's a bunch of kids and the elderly all dressed up crammed in a church that will be mostly empty next weekend, but I welcome the way discussion has taken off.
I don't think someone disagreeing with your views on religion should be considered offensive.
I'm not tryin to start an agrumemt but this thread is offensive. I am a Christian and believe in god.
I am sorry you feel this way. I think it has been a legitimate discussion, with both sides being represented. Although I will grant you more lopsided against.
You do have a valid argument. My sister is a devout christian, and she constantly reminds me that her faith is fair game for media jokes, but Islam is off limits.
For what it is worth, I am a Pagan, and I believe in God.
What Cindy said. I don't see how anyone with an open mind could be offended by this thread. It was not an attack on Christianity. I think it has been a very informative and adult discussion and it is nice to be able to have this with a group of smart, thinking people.
I was raised going to a Methodist church in Wales and went every week, along with everyone else in my village, until I was 14 and decided I didn't want to go anymore. As an adult I don't go to church because I don't like the social aspect of it - to me it is very weird. If I want to pray, I will do so in the privacy of my home. Having said that, I believe in a higher power. Do I know that it is the God that I have learned about? I don't know.
If I had to chose a religion, I would probably be a Buddhist because I tend to live my life more in that "style" and just believe in being a good person, being kind to others and not doing harm, and that is enough for me.
I was young and we lived in a duplex that was the equivolent of housing, but they didn't have housing at Groton on base then, it was off base. We had a backyard my dad fenced in with woods behind it- it was GREAT. lol. My dad hates Groton, and has had to work there several times. Now those houses are gone and are a parking lot by the hotel (forget the name of it).
The idea of church in a modern society where science exists is weird. Going to traditional, Southern Baptist weddings (like the one I went to Saturday) is weird. Fairly rational people holding strong to centuries old beliefs and taking one book far too literally is weird. That goes for any religion. For someone to whole-heartedly agree with teachings of their book and think someone else's book which is equally as hard to swallow is completely wrong and ridiculous is weird. Example: I have Christian friends who never bat an eye at the stories of the Old Testament, yet think Scientologists are absolutely insane. They belly laugh at the idea of aliens and say things like "those Scientology idiots don't realize that L Ron just made all that stuff up. Its just a science fiction book that people are taking as truth!" Then they read their Bible which was written by humans and take stories of angels and demons and burning bushes and living inside of whales and great floods and killing of first borns and contradictions of God being angry and killing everyone except Noahs family and innocent Egyptian babies and then also saying God is love and that he came down as a human that was also his son and he was the biggest socialist in the history of the world. Its just TOO WEIRD
I know I'm picking on Christians mostly in this post, but that is, according to Republican Conservatives, what our nation was founded from (what a crock) and what many of my family subscribes to. It scares me greatly that half of the country has skewed Jesus' teachings so much and also want MY COUNTRY, the land of the FREE, to be ruled by Christian law. They can keep their religion to themselves. Church is weird