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California rejecting Prop 37 was just a huge bummer.
And now for my contributions to awful Facebook posts.
Cousin #1:
Well i can sleep well knowing Ryan will continue to be my state rep in Boston. I love the fact that he says he ran a positive campaign and got positive results. My kinda attitude. Which, is much different than liz warren's first remark about how the first thing she needs to do is attack people. America is going to get what it deserves electing people with a negaitve attitude like hers, and its sad, but hopefully it spurs a wake up call. People need to realize you get more done by working together than attacking people and organizations. She makes the US senate sound like a UFC octagon. As for the presidency, too close to tell, but if it ain't mitt, then I'm stockpiling ammo.
02/08 Tool 02/11 Jeff Mangum 02/17 of Montreal 02/29 Blind Pilot 03/31 The Naked & The Famous 05/14 M83 and I Break Horses 05/19 Flaming Lips, Young the Giant, Dawes and AWOLNATION 06/07 Bonnaroo 2012!!! 06/13 Roger Waters 07/28 Toadies
I'm going to answer this question, but not before a bit of a rant because part of this rubbed me the wrong way.
"Battle hardened conservative base?" I'm sorry, but I believe your perception isn't as one-sided as the reality of things. There have been trials and tribulations testing both sides of all that went on here the past couple years. I take offense to the suggestion that this has only made one side stronger and more cohesive. The opposition here forced fifteen special elections in the past year and a half. Over thirty thousand people collected within spitting distance of one million signatures to force the Walker recall. In the course of doing so, we unwittingly unleashed a loophole which allowed Walker to collect unlimited campaign donations. Outspent 8-to-1 with an abbreviated campaign schedule. In some respects, it's a surprise that wasn't a more spectacular defeat.
I don't think our movement and its accomplishments should be so easily dismissed like a fart in the wind. We're still here.
Had we waited for the Walker recall to coincide with this election - like our state Dems chair tried to tell us - we might have had better fortune. Walker wouldn't be the only election underway nationwide, competing with all the other candidates for attention, fundraising and airtime. Combine that with things like his associates beginning to go on trial and a "250K jobs" promise which has failed so miserably he removed any mention of it from his website... don't get me started.
I think there's a bit of an "apples & oranges" comparison going on between that recall and this presidential race. That disparity of resources doesn't exist in the presidential race in similar fashion. Hell, the recall election exit polls back in June discovered that there's five percent of the electorate who voted Walker then who at the time said they'd vote Obama now. There's a sense there that some people just didn't think the recall was necessary - and as I said shortly after that loss in my Walker thread, I think the Wisconsin Uprising has an "I told you so" moment somewhere down the line.
Consider that the end of the recall rant portion of this post.
This was totally unnecessary. You're not the only one here who does this stuff for a living, I don't need the lecture. Asking if conservatives were capable of an upset was a fair question, especially considering the way they rallied to save Walker's ass.
1. This was totally unnecessary. I think this was necessary. You're not saying both sides were fired up because of the recall; you're saying only one side was. You asked me how things were going for Obama here, and you mentioned something which - in my opinion - did not convey the entirety of the situation on the ground here accurately. To say that storming the capitol, bringing out 100K+ people into the streets, and gathering nearly a million signatures does not also make a group battle-hardened... I think that's dismissive. Sorry if my response was a bit snippy for you... but I found the way you phrased this personally insulting. 2. You're not the only one here who does this stuff for a living, I don't need the lecture. Fact check: I DO NOT DO THIS FOR A LIVING. It's for the love of the game and, more importantly, country. For all the politicking I've done since spring 2011, I have not earned one goddamn cent doing so. I spent $300 on office supplies for the recalls, at least $1500 attending the convention as a delegate (most of it on credit yet to be repaid,) and upwards of $800 on donating to campaigns. Now, my 2011 tax return? I made $11K delivering pizza while I indulged in this expensive hobby... because I quit my full-time job (albeit a crappy one) to take part in the Cheddar Revolution while I scaled back to deliver part-time and do all this electioneering etc. So yeah, if you're making incorrect assumptions like this... maybe a little lecturing your way couldn't hurt. 3. Asking if conservatives were capable of an upset was a fair question, especially considering the way they rallied to save Walker's ass. In Wisconsin... Scott Walker got 1,335,585 votes (53%) out of 2.516M cast in June. Mitt Romney got 1,408,475 votes (46%) out of 3.056M cast last night.
Presidential election turnout was 540K more than the recall election, about a 20% increase. Romney only received 70K of those extra 540K votes, getting only 4% above Walker's recall total and earning only about 12% of that additional turnout.
I feel I gave a fair response to your "fair" question as to the likelihood of a Republican upset.
You asked for the situation on the ground in Wisconsin, and I gave it to you.
I think the eventual results here lend some credibility to what I said, whether you like it or not.
A few things in the election results worth noting which I haven't yet seen mentioned:
1. The incoming Senate will have a record number of women. 2. Record Hispanic turnout this year. 3. White males will become a minority in the House Democratic caucus. 4. Wisconsin elected the first openly gay Senator in U.S. history.
All good things in my eyes, but probably not to the GOP.
I went to Obama's first inauguration and I just booked a flight to go to his second. I have a buddy living in DC now so I'm making a nice reunion trip out of it.
Oh yea, this is going to the supreme court for sure.
Hasn't it already?
I was talking about these specific things that just passed. I have read that people shouldn't get so excited about these results just yet but haven't looked into it too much.
I went to Obama's first inauguration and I just booked a flight to go to his second. I have a buddy living in DC now so I'm making a nice reunion trip out of it.
I had to take a day off work in 2009, but this one is on the MLK holiday! YAY. I will most assuredly be there.
Dancat will host if anyone wants to make the trip...
Last year I went to DC in January. It was relatively mild and not tremendously overcrowded like an inauguration would be.
Then again we did have Metro PD tailing us and the Secret Service throwing smoke bombs over the White House fence. But for a group of 3000 or so people going down Penn Ave, we were well behaved.
"Ohio really did go to President Obama last night. And he really did win. And he really was born in Hawaii. And he really is legitimately President of the United States. Again. And the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math. And climate change is real. And rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes. And evolution is a thing! And Benghazi was an attack ON us, it was not a scandal BY us. And nobody is taking away anyone's guns. And taxes have not gone up. And the deficit is dropping, actually. And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. And the moon landing was real. And FEMA is not building concentration camps. And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as Communism.
Listen. Last night was a good night for liberals and for Democrats for very obvious reasons. But it was also, possibly, a good night for this country as a whole. Because in this country we have a two party system, in government. And the idea is supposed to be that the two sides both come up with ways to confront and fix the real problems facing our country. They both propose possible solutions to our real problems. And we debate between those possible solutions. And by the process of debate, we pick the best idea. That competition between good ideas, from both sides, about real problems in the real country should result in our country having better choices, better options, than if only one side is really working on the hard stuff. And if the Republican party, and the conservative movement, and the conservative media is stuck in a vacuum sealed, door locked, spin cycle of telling each other what makes them feel good, and denying the factual, lived truth of the world, then we are all deprived, as a nation, of the constructive debate between competing, feasible ideas about real problems.
Last night the Republicans got shellacked. And they had no idea it was coming. And we saw them, in real time, in real humiliating time, not believe it even as it was happening to them. And unless they're going to secede, they're going to have to pop the factual bubble they have been so happy living inside, if they do not want to get shellacked again. And that will be a painful process for them, I'm sure, but it will be good for the whole country - left, right, and center. You guys, we're counting on you. Wake up.
There's real problems in the world. There are real knowable facts in the world. Let's accept those and talk about how we might approach our problems differently. Let's move on from there. If the Republican party, and the conservative movement, and conservative media are forced to do that by the humiliation they were dealt last night, we will all be better off as a nation. And in that spirit, congratulations everybody. Big night."
Last Edit: Nov 9, 2012 11:23:01 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Unbelievable. You're freaking out not because I said ANYTHING negative about Dems in Wisconsin, I just simply failed to complement them when I also acknowledged that the Republicans were well organized as well. I think the world of what the Dems did there the last 2 years, win or lose, and I made this silly mistake of assuming everyone else knew and felt the same way. Sorry for not kissing your ring first. You're being a diick.
And don't even start with me about financial sacrifice.
What rubbed me the wrong way was the difference between saying "Republicans are fired up and battle hardened" and "both sides are fired up and battle hardened." I don't think that was too much. I'm not asking you to kiss the ring. I gave you an answer along with my rant despite that, didn't I? I'd offer to buy you a beer to make up for it at Bonnaroo... but with the way I've been spending & earning lately, I am looking at missing Bonnaroo for the first time since I started going in 2013 because of the way my 2012 went. I can't guarantee I'll be there, considering my situation.
Trust me, I'll give WisDems some hell too. Most of the Democrats I've talked to here since the election feel the same way. We won big on the federal level, but we lost big on the state level thanks to what was done during that pre-recall period of complete Republican control of the legislature.
Last year's redistricting and Voter ID bill played a big part in preventing Obama/Baldwin coattails from extending downticket this year. Their Voter ID bill, though the photo identification aspect of it was suspended in court, had an effect here because straight-ticket party voting was eliminated from Wisconsin ballots. We had roughly 3M voters here, but we had a gap of about 850K total votes between the presidential race & state legislative races. I find this particularly frustrating because I live in an area where races are generally 60-40 GOP, but despite this we still made progress to 55-45. We're just disappointed at the potential squandered there. Redistricting was done in a secretive and questionably legal fashion which is still working its way through the courts. Even though the cumulative statewide vote in our state senate favored Democrats by 2-3%, redistricting turned this into a +2 gain for the GOP in retaking the state senate. Walker & his allies here are again in complete unchecked control of the state.
Democrats I've talked to here seem just as upset with state party leadership this week as they did in June when we lost the recall. I'm not as gung-ho about cutting off the head as most I've talked to, but it's worth noting that most Dems here didn't even give themselves a night to relish the Obama/Baldwin wins and sleep on it before calling for the party chair's job.
I've heard there's a lot of strife between Obey and Feingold and that really weekend the state party during the recall campaign. Is that what you've been hearing?
I can't say I've heard of any strife between the two of them firsthand. Both had their names floated as potential candidates in that election, but of the two Feingold was (at least visibly) more supportive of the effort. I know Feingold signed it for sure - he made no secret of that - but Obey not so much. I can't find an entry for Obey on the iVerifyTheRecall site*. (A project of a Tea Party group, intended to catalog all the signers but ultimately left incomplete because it was certified before their work was done.) Obey made an endorsement (Mayor Tom Barrett) in the eventual recall election, but dodged the question of whether he'd signed it himself. For what that's worth.
* Being on the other side of the recall from the group who made it, I've got to say the site has proven quite helpful, whether it was finding high-profile and/or needed places to get yard signs out or (as I did most recently, on election eve) simply to find a friendly house in the neighborhood to take a bathroom break from canvassing.
I can't say that the party (or chances of recall success) was weakened by any conflict between the two of them. Feingold has gone on the record stating that even he would not have won the recall election against Walker had he ran. I tend to agree with that. I don't think those two marching in absolute lockstep would have won it for them, either.
On a rather unrelated side tangent... I do want to lay some blame at Obama's feet for how 2010 gubernatorial politics played out at the state level. A year to the day after he won election, he was in the state. There was a meeting with he & his people and Mayor Barrett. Within a week, Lt. Gov. Barb Lawton (who I liked better than former Gov. Doyle or any of the eventual recall candidates, and is more of a progressive than most of our state-level officials as of late) withdrew from the race despite being the presumed front-runner for the nomination. She didn't really give a reason. I think some backroom shenanigans were involved there. I'm not saying Lawton would have won either, but I feel that Obama was messing with our state politics then - but wouldn't touch our state politics for a year and a half between the budget protests and the final month of the presidential campaign. Barrett ran unsuccessfully for the Dem nomination when Doyle won, ran unsuccessfully as the Dem nominee in 2010 and again in this year's recall. I can't help but think that Obama had a hand in promoting the continued candidacies of a losing candidate before Walker and threw us under the bus once we did have Walker.
I'd love to see how those results would've been different had Obama actually manned up and fulfilled his "comfortable shoes" promise from his initial presidential campaign...
Anyone see what came out of Romney's post-game conference call with large donors last night? I'll throw out some quotes by way of the NY Times. Mr. Romney said Wednesday afternoon that the president had followed the “old playbook” of using targeted initiatives to woo specific interest groups — “especially the African-American community, the Hispanic community and young people.” “In each case, they were very generous in what they gave to those groups,” Mr. Romney said, contrasting Mr. Obama’s strategy to his own of “talking about big issues for the whole country: military strategy, foreign policy, a strong economy, creating jobs and so forth.” “With regards to the young people, for instance, a forgiveness of college loan interest was a big gift,” Mr. Romney said. “Free contraceptives were very big with young, college-aged women. And then, finally, Obamacare also made a difference for them, because as you know, anybody now 26 years of age and younger was now going to be part of their parents’ plan, and that was a big gift to young people. They turned out in large numbers, a larger share in this election even than in 2008.” “You can imagine for somebody making $25,000 or $30,000 or $35,000 a year, being told you’re now going to get free health care, particularly if you don’t have it, getting free health care worth, what, $10,000 per family, in perpetuity — I mean, this is huge,” Mr. Romney said. “Likewise with Hispanic voters, free health care was a big plus. But in addition with regards to Hispanic voters, the amnesty for children of illegals, the so-called Dream Act kids, was a huge plus for that voting group.”
I guess he's free from having to backpedal on "makers vs. takers" kinds of remarks now that he's no longer bound to making an electoral sales pitch. Me, I see this kind of stuff and can't help but think of W and his $300 rebate check promise which helped bring him into office.
Also in some post-game on my home front: We've got a state senator here in Wisconsin who's catching some heat over a recent remark. Alberta Darling, a state co-chair of the Romney campaign, went on one of the Milwaukee Sunday talk shows and basically said that had our Voter ID bill been in effect Romney would have won the state.
The way I see it, there's only one of two implications to be read between the lines:
1. Obama won Wisconsin due to fraudulent votes. 2. Romney only would have won Wisconsin by disqualifying legitimate voters from casting their ballots.
Thank God bills like this have been suspended and/or thrown out here and elsewhere.
They're still counting votes in our congressional race. The repuglicans redrew (read jerrymandered) the district so now with 335,927 the lead is held by about 500 votes. Don't get me wrong the Democrat is a DINO but the republican option was really awful. Hopefully they'll finish this before the New Year.
Just stare at it for a bit. Let the awesomeness of this sink in.
Mr. O'Reilly is on a roll!
Not sure how many people heard about this, but my Alma Mater was the latest target for that surly out c*nt to irrationally hate on during one of his monologues.
Long story short, Fordham is a very divided school when it comes to political ideologies. The Fordham Republicans club extended an invitation to Anne Coulter to be their annual speaker. This club has a history of seeking out divisive figures to spark controversy on campus (this pre-dates my attending the school). Father McShane (one of the genuinely nicest people on this planet, and the President of the school) wrote a letter saying he was not happy with the selection, but defended the student's right to make it. Before this letter was released publicly, the Fordham Republicans rescinded the offer because even they couldn't take Coulter seriously.
Then...O'Reilly found out (probably from Coulter) and whoever gave him the details gave him incredibly inaccurate ones.
I looked for a video clip, but I can't find it anywhere (shocking). He disrespected Father McShane (by saying "Mr. McShane? Doctor McShane? It doesn't matter"....yeah, Bill, the guy dedicated his entire life to living a Jesuit lifestyle, the least you can do is show him the respect he would show you even if you spoke like this directly to his face), the school, the students (big 'ol tough guy that he is) and all because he was misinformed.
He won't correct himself, and it'll get swept under the rug. Just an embarrassing misuse of power by a public figure.
Oh, and my friend at Fordham interned for Bill, said he's the biggest p.o.s. to the "little people" that work for FoxNews that works in that building. Not that you needed me to tell you that, but consider it confirmed.
First: Mr. Forward I vote you just change the name of this thread rather than start a new one.
Is that an actual second? I would prefer any of my fireside ramblings be confined to their own thread. Forty pages in is too late to pull that about-face.
In regards to South Carolina... is Nikki Haley going to nominate herself? I don't know the state politics there so well.
One last note, since I didn't see it mentioned here... has anyone seen/heard anything about Anonymous claiming they prevented Karl Rove's gang from hacking the Ohio results and thus preserving the Obama win?
One last note, since I didn't see it mentioned here... has anyone seen/heard anything about Anonymous claiming they prevented Karl Rove's gang from hacking the Ohio results and thus preserving the Obama win?
No, but Anonymous claims a lot of things.
(now all my credit cards are all going to be mysteriously canceled)
Bonnaroo 2008-2013
0ct 11 Pearl Jam
Oct 12 Pearl Jam
March 16 Arcade Fire
April 29 Arcade Fire
Sept 4 Wilco
Sept 9 The Hold Steady
Oct 16 Pearl Jam
Oct 17 Gaslight Anthem
why bother to steal when in this digital age all you have to do is alter the key stroke and guess what you've voted for the one money wants you to vote.
why bother to steal when in this digital age all you have to do is alter the key stroke and guess what you've voted for the one money wants you to vote.
That was happening in Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania
why bother to steal when in this digital age all you have to do is alter the key stroke and guess what you've voted for the one money wants you to vote.
That was happening in Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania
Bonnaroo 2008-2013
0ct 11 Pearl Jam
Oct 12 Pearl Jam
March 16 Arcade Fire
April 29 Arcade Fire
Sept 4 Wilco
Sept 9 The Hold Steady
Oct 16 Pearl Jam
Oct 17 Gaslight Anthem