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Post by monkybunney on Dec 13, 2012 11:11:30 GMT -5
CSB: So the other day I'm jamming with my shitty band that noone cares about our singer tells me he got a cryptic Christmas card. The envelope didn't have a return address and their was no postage mark or stamp. Someone had hand delivered it to his mail box.
The card itself was a generic holiday card, it had a decorated wreath on the front and underneath it said "Happy Holidays". The inside of the card was blank except for a single sentence written in pencil - "You are the reason we are here!"
I reminded him he has a wife and kid DURRR. He said his wife swears that she never saw it before (the kid's only 2 so that rules her out). I told him that's fucking awesome! I'm totally going out and buying a box of generic but pleasant season's greetings cards and delivering them to random mailboxes around my neighborhood.
In my mind they bring a doctor with them who can confirm the DNA.
"In my mind"... are you thinking this out that deeply? Is there something you need to tell us?
Haven't we all thought deeply about castrating and plotting to murder Justin Beiber? I thought that was a normal thing.....maybe I need to shut up now.
I know I am coming into this topic late, and I am not trying to rekindle it but I feel the need to share my opinions on the race argument that flared up yesterday.
Before I go into it I want to make sure that everyone knows that I am absolutely not racist in any way.
I grew up bouncing back and forth between Massachusetts and Florida. In Mass, I first lived in a roughish area heavily populated by Puerto Ricans. In the early 80's in West Springfield, it was a very us vs them attitude coming from them. I didn't understand it at the time, all I knew is that I used to get jumped by one or more of them at least once a week walking home from school (I was in elementary school at the time). However, even though I heard whisperings from my mom and her friends I never really bought into it because I just wasn't that way. My 2 best friends were Anthony and Raymond, 2 Puerto Ricans who lived next door.
Then I moved to Florida for 5th grade, into a VERY rough, black neighborhood called Arlington in Jacksonville, Florida. Jacksonville has a nickname. JacksonKILL. Per capita I bet it is pretty high on the list of murders, maybe even tops? I don't feel like looking it up, its beside the point. The point is, this is the roughest neighborhood in the roughest town in Florida. My best friend was black.
HOWEVER, this is where I started to recognize what racism really is. When I was around my mom and her friends, and my uncle and especially my grandmother, I heard the n word thrown around like candy. With hate. Not from my mom, but her friends, and others in my family. My grandmother bragged about how my grandfather was involved in some really bad things when it came to that department (Im not going to detail it out, but its the worst kind of bad). This is also where I started distancing myself from my grandmother because I was so disappointed that such a loving wonderful woman could be that hateful towards anyone. True racism coming from her.
I experienced a very palpable conflict between 2 particular groups of people. Mostly angry blacks vs ignorant whites living in the past, but it bled from there. Even non angry blacks were affected by their "peers" and smarter whites were affected by theirs. Its like dropping a stone into water. The waves start to dissipate the farther the get from the point of impact, but the still stir the water up a long way from it.
All of this has a point, I swear.
Then I moved back to Massachusetts for high school. I moved into a small, rich, Irish Catholic town. There was one black person in my entire high school. He was elected class president of our senior class. He was (and still is) very well respected and liked. It wasn't fake. He is a likable, kind, smart, charismatic person. That has nothing to do with his race, at all. That is his person.
That is when it hit me. In the south, there is racism. Blacks and whites do not, in general, get along as a whole. One side is angry and the other is ignorant. Actually, both sides (at the point of impact) are angry and ignorant. I am not saying any of them are stupid or stupidly angry. I am making a generalization. Please understand that most of this is generalizations that DO NOT apply to every case, and I am not trying to pigeon hole ANYONE or ANY GROUP. Simply stating observations and making comment about my opinions of what I saw personally.
SO: The point of some of that is to point out that some of you THINK you see racism, and know what it is, but really you don't. Juggs, with all due respect, you are a lawyer living in Connecticut. I went to college at UHa. I have been down scenic Albany Ave multiple times, and what goes on there isn't racism. Its groups sticking to themselves. Its not HATING another race. Yeah, I felt uncomfortable because I didn't really fit in, not because I felt hate coming from anyone.
There is a MASSIVE difference between the "racism" that goes on up there and watching 3 semi toothless smelly white tobacco spitting 30 year old men call a black man names and spit at him at the gas station (seen it more than once). The racism down here is AWFUL. It is truly despicable. It really makes me sad.
Making a comment that someone doesn't like hearing a hip hop artist rap about bitches, money, guns etc is not racism. It doesn't even come close. What that is is someone who can't relate to what is being shared in that song, and not liking the type of music. Just because someone relates to a particular type of music, or a particular sound doesn't come close to racism. It has to do with what they grew up listening to, and a narrow view of music. Having a closed mind to hearing other forms of expression. And to me, thats ok. Music is a lot about personal taste. Having a narrow view and preference about music is each individual person's prerogative.
"In my mind"... are you thinking this out that deeply? Is there something you need to tell us?
Haven't we all thought deeply about castrating and plotting to murder Justin Beiber? I thought that was a normal thing.....maybe I need to shut up now.
"Third suspect found on internet message board..."
Post by chicojuarz on Dec 13, 2012 12:20:05 GMT -5
I dont think it's appropriate to judge someone else's experience of racism. Just because you have a different frame of reference doesnt invalidate what someone else has experienced.
I live in an area where the N word is almost never used, but that doesnt mean that my city and the people here dont oppress other races economically and attempt to drive them out of "up and coming neighborhoods." Systematic oppression is just as disgusting.
And not speaking for other people here, but I hate it when I hear non-minorities say "I'm not racist in any way." Usually it's a nice way to cover racial generalizations that are going to be made, be they hateful or just plain old stereotypes. I know what's coming next.
1) Im not judging anyone elses experience of anything. Just trying to show the difference between hardcore racism that happens down here and what happens up there. Neither are ok, at all.
2) any kind of oppression is disgusting, but it is human nature. If it isn't about race, it is about economic stature, who you socialize with, what you look like, or a multitude of other things. That isn't always related to race, although that is the most obvious to those who look.
3) I only put that up there because I didn't want any of my thoughts to be misunderstood (which happens a lot with me here because I tend to say stupid shyt a lot). Hopefully what came after that initial statement proves that I am not racist. To the point of alienating my (still living) grandmother.
SO: The point of some of that is to point out that some of you THINK you see racism, and know what it is, but really you don't. Juggs, with all due respect, you are a lawyer living in Connecticut.
In conclusion, directly attempting to invalidate Juggs' experience.
nope. And Im not going to argue with you about it. You obviously missed the overall point. Anything quoted alone can be taken out of context. I was sharing an overall idea and thought. If you take that one line, yes, it looks that way. Thats not what I was trying to get across, chico.
nope. And Im not going to argue with you about it. You obviously missed the overall point. Anything quoted alone can be taken out of context. I was sharing an overall idea and thought. If you take that one line, yes, it looks that way. Thats not what I was trying to get across, chico.
I guess you figured out a way to fix that "not enough negative points" problem.
nope. And Im not going to argue with you about it. You obviously missed the overall point. Anything quoted alone can be taken out of context. I was sharing an overall idea and thought. If you take that one line, yes, it looks that way. Thats not what I was trying to get across, chico.
I guess you figured out a way to fix that "not enough negative points" problem.
Making a comment that someone doesn't like hearing a hip hop artist rap about bitches, money, guns etc is not racism. It doesn't even come close. What that is is someone who can't relate to what is being shared in that song, and not liking the type of music.
His point wasn't that it's racist to not like their music. His point was that it's a deeply entrenched, subtle kind of racism to hold rappers to this MORAL standard (that they not be "too dumb" or rap about bitches, money, NO NO WORD!!! or guns) when we don't hold white artists like The Beach Boys or The Beatles or The Doors (all of whom sing songs that are clearly about doing NO NO WORD!!! and chasing women) to these same moral standards. His point was that saying you "don't like the music" and saying "you don't like thug rappers who rap about dumb sh*t like b*tches, money, or drugs" are two very different things, and the latter places a moral judgment on the artist in addition to stating that you simply don't like their music.
You almost never, ever hear somebody say, "I don't like The Beatles because they sang too many songs about doing NO NO WORD!!! and chasing women." Almost never. When someone has the particular brain malfunction where they don't like The Beatles, they express it as, "I just could never get into them." Juggs' point is a good one that's absolutely worth considering: that maybe we should reconsider what we say and the judgments we place on rappers that are perceived as "dumb" for these reasons.
And, as chico pointed out, it's foolish to disregard someone else's experiences of racism just because you think you've experienced worse racism. These things lie on a spectrum, and each person's experience is unique and should be valued, not dismissed because they don't fit with your personal spectrum of experience.
Post by A$AP Rosko on Dec 13, 2012 14:04:41 GMT -5
Additionally, I'd like to point out that anybody who is quicker to jump to "I'm not racist" or "racism no longer exists" than to examine or explore subtle ways in which racism might still manifest itself in society or in individuals should do some serious self-evaluation (and I am in NO WAY making any accusations or talking about anybody in particular). To immediately deny any racism is to show a lack of concern for the very serious and very deep-rooted problems racism poses.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Dec 13, 2012 14:11:43 GMT -5
I'd just like to clarify my original point. I sorta started this whole mess by saying (or at least intending to say) "When people say X, I think Y about them. I probably shouldn't but I do." I said that both as a way to talk about experiences I HAVE observed, as well as admitting the stereotype I've developed as a result of it that I'm sure is far from universally true.