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Post by generalstore on Jun 30, 2009 15:45:10 GMT -5
yeah this popped up on pt earlier today, it still blows my mind that the orioles sucked so bad even with all of those cheaters on their lineup. there were a few more names on the list on pt though. I remember a lot more names after Matthews.
Garth Algar: Do you ever get the feeling Benjamin's just using us?
Wayne Campbell: Good call. It's like he wants us to be liked by everyone. I mean Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes everybody liked. They left that to the Bee Gees.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Jun 30, 2009 19:55:26 GMT -5
Baseball would honestly be 90% ruined for me if Pujols was on the list. I'm sad for Ryan Franklin being on there but not really disappointed. Frank Thomas was the only player not on the list that I thought he did. Other than that all those names are certainly believable non-roiders. I was happy to see Jeter off the list because that would also make me doubt a lot of others. It's nice to see those I had faith for weren't on it.
Edit: HAHAHAHAHA PEDRO MARTINEZ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ;D ;D ;D ;D
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2009 19:56:00 GMT -5 by theroo420 - Back to Top
nodepression
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Inforoo's Waffle Czar & Baron Von Hipster
Gah I was just about to post the same thing. Going to have to wear my Big Z jersey in shame now.
On another note, I'm pretty fucking happy about Pujols not being on the list. The best hitter of our generation can keep his reputation for now. This coming from a Cubs fan.
Post by nodepression on Jun 30, 2009 20:26:56 GMT -5
I was more surprised by Derrek to be honest, but when you take a look at his 2005 season and compare it to everything after, we should've thought harder about where that was coming from.
Post by rooconteur on Jun 30, 2009 20:56:42 GMT -5
this list is a fake. this would have been all over the major sports networks by now (hours ago). somebody has the list and has been slowly leaking names. if they did leak the whole list, it wouldnt be through pt.
this hasnt been mentioned anywhere, not even as a rumor. this has no credibility, other than it's a very believable list.
well most of the o's on it were already busted, not surprising at all, it's just another cruel reminder of how far mlb has fallen.
Someone is being over dramatic. The game has been tainted by some drug for years now, whether it be pills or steroids. If you think other sports aren't affected by ped's also you're crazy. We all like to think about baseball as a pure game, the green grass, the sound of the bat hitting the ball, but in the end it's a business to a lot of these players. It's up to fans to view it as we will, and if you want, you can even look past steroids.
Post by generalstore on Jun 30, 2009 21:40:14 GMT -5
the strike was the beginning of the end for me, like many, the home run chase b/t sosa and mac helped win me back a bit, but then that was all proven to be bs.
the ridiculous salaries, the uneven playing field for large market vs small market teams, the roids and the lying under oath, etc have all hurt mlb.
over dramatic? i don't think so, it's a pretty reasonable reaction to 15 years of one disappointment after another.
Post by nodepression on Jun 30, 2009 21:45:58 GMT -5
Ah ok, if you're talking about all that stuff than I could see where you're coming from.
The large market vs small market is the worst thing in baseball right now to be honest. I think we're just starting to get the dr*gs under control, but now we have to worry if teams like the Pirates can ever be a viable market again even with that beautiful ballpark they have. The game could use a salary cap.
the large v small market teams isnt nearly as bad as it was 8-10 years ago. Rays made it to the world series last year! The Rockies too. Small market teams that have recently won a championship include the Marlins (2), D Backs, and Angels. Guess the White Sox are in the middle.
Post by generalstore on Jun 30, 2009 22:10:38 GMT -5
* Small market teams always can get a 2-3 year run going with a skilled front office and a bit of luck. tampa bay's run will soon be over. they tripled their payroll from last year to this year in an effort to retain some of their homegrown talent, yet still had to watch a few of them leave.
* Also didn't the marlins do it (at least the first one) with one of the largest payrolls in the NL and then immediately dismantled the team in a firesale in the offseason? Going off memory here and my brain has been scrambled all day.
* I would consider the White Sox to be a large market team since they enjoy the 3rd largest television market in the country. The Angels enjoy the 2nd largest market.
The point is, the teams with a large revenue source from their tv contracts can afford to cover up their blunders with money, see the NY Yankees in the 21st century (although they certainly developed their own talent for their run in the 90's).
Post by nodepression on Jun 30, 2009 22:30:42 GMT -5
The Marlins always start winning with a bunch of good moves and homegrown talent, and then completely dismantle the team. Who knows what will happen when this bunch's contracts expire.
Bit of luck? Tampas run will not soon be over. Their pitching is young and deep and they are one of if not the most athletic teams in the league. Upton, Longoria, Crawford, Barttlet, and Pena. That group is YOUNG and Very talented. and i dont think luck can win or get you to a world series. It takes Pitching, Timely hitting, solid defense, and good coaching.
The marins roster wasnt one of the largest payrolls when they won the seires in 97..(it was about to be). The reasn of the dismantling is cuz they had no other choice.
P.S im a diehard METS fan and yes we suck
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2009 22:37:02 GMT -5 by theroo420 - Back to Top
strumntheguitar
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Sir Strum, Master of Rum
Post by strumntheguitar on Jun 30, 2009 22:46:33 GMT -5
So I guess I'm in the minority when I think steroids in baseball really isn't that big of a deal? Seriously, everyone takes some form of performance enhancements when they play a professional sport. There isn't a single professional athlete out there who only hits the weight room and doesn't drink a protein drink or some other chemical booster to increase their body's recovery time so they can workout twice as much. Granted, some of these steroids are "legal" and others "illegal" but they're never going to catch everyone with the illegals. They can try, and it's only gonna tarnish the league's reputation. There's still gonna be people doing whatever they can to give themselves an edge without getting caught. To me, that's what professional sports have always appeared to me. How far will an athlete go to give themselves an edge over the next professional athlete.
I'm not saying I encourage, or really even support so much, the use of HGH or whatever other injections are floating around these days. What I am saying is that to deem these athletes as cheaters because they choose to sacrifice their credibility and body to improve their performance and the performance of their team is ridiculous. They're not cheaters. They're just fully dedicated to being better than they could ever be.
If I was the commissioner, which I never would or could be because of my stance on this issue, I would immediately cease any drug testing or investigations whatsoever, and focus on the game and the fans. Let the players do what they feel they need to. They're really only hurting themselves if they choose to take it to the extreme. I say either ban everything - protein shakes and all - or just let the players play. Steroids in and of themselves are not what's tarnishing the league. The league's actions against steroids is what can tarnish the league.
Post by generalstore on Jun 30, 2009 22:53:05 GMT -5
How is Tampa Bay going to afford all of those young and athletic players when their rookie contracts are up?
Even after winning the AL their avg attendance is half of the league avg, and after tripling their salary costs, they're still at the bottom of the pile in terms of team salaries.
One by one they'll be going to Boston, NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, etc. I'm sure TB will keep a few, but it's impossible to keep a championship caliber team together when you can't afford (or otherwise are unwilling) to pay their market value.
btw, the luck i was referring to was more about timing and development of players coming through the farm system, not in terms of getting lucky in individual games (although that never hurts either ).
Post by generalstore on Jun 30, 2009 23:39:50 GMT -5
that's an interesting take there strum. i totally disagree with it, on just about every point you made, but i appreciate your thought process behind your stance.
So I guess I'm in the minority when I think steroids in baseball really isn't that big of a deal? Seriously, everyone takes some form of performance enhancements when they play a professional sport. There isn't a single professional athlete out there who only hits the weight room and doesn't drink a protein drink or some other chemical booster to increase their body's recovery time so they can workout twice as much. Granted, some of these steroids are "legal" and others "illegal" but they're never going to catch everyone with the illegals. They can try, and it's only gonna tarnish the league's reputation. There's still gonna be people doing whatever they can to give themselves an edge without getting caught. To me, that's what professional sports have always appeared to me. How far will an athlete go to give themselves an edge over the next professional athlete.
I'm not saying I encourage, or really even support so much, the use of HGH or whatever other injections are floating around these days. What I am saying is that to deem these athletes as cheaters because they choose to sacrifice their credibility and body to improve their performance and the performance of their team is ridiculous. They're not cheaters. They're just fully dedicated to being better than they could ever be.
If I was the commissioner, which I never would or could be because of my stance on this issue, I would immediately cease any NO NO WORD!!! testing or investigations whatsoever, and focus on the game and the fans. Let the players do what they feel they need to. They're really only hurting themselves if they choose to take it to the extreme. I say either ban everything - protein shakes and all - or just let the players play. Steroids in and of themselves are not what's tarnishing the league. The league's actions against steroids is what can tarnish the league.
Just my 0.02c on the topic
i have slowly been leaning towards this line of thinking. baseball players have been cheating since the game was invented. it's part of the culture of the game, practically. guys have been doing speed ("greenies") since the 70s if not ealier. and threr was enough blow in baseball during the 80s to make tony montana blush.
i think bonds (and to a lesser degree mcgwire and sosa), by becoming cartoonishly muscular ad obliterating records, ruined it for veryone. they got greedy and pushed it too far.
that said, you gotta have some respect for the player who kept it clean.
AND THIS LIST IS FAKE (in case anyone is confused. this is NOT the list).
).