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Ok, thank you for the clarification. So I looked up Precepts of the Catholic Church.
You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor. You shall confess your sins at least once a year. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church.
So deliberately violating any one of these rules results in eternal damnation? Seems like a steep price to pay.
The other thing about religion is people's own interpretation. There are many "flavors" of Christianity as well as other religions. I don't understand how people can belong to a church if they don't believe everything that particular church teaches. For example: How many people here honestly believe that when they take the Eucharist, it has actually become the body of Christ and is no longer just a wafer?
One can always avail him or herself of Reconciliation.
While I do believe in the Eucharist, there are a number of teachings in the Catholic Church with which I do not agree. For me, living a life I believe is celebrated by God is infinitely more important than not missing Mass on Sunday.
the scary part of that article was that nearly half the christians in the country are evengelical or pentecostal - pardon my generalization - but they are the really dangerous ones.
I know you asked to be pardoned for the generalization, but geez! That is one HELL of a generalization!
Post by bluecadet3 on Mar 10, 2009 11:34:47 GMT -5
I all I can say is the problem with America is Godlessness. Let me say that again... Godlessness. It wasn't the war they started. It wasn't the plague they created. It was Judgement. No one escapes their past. No one escapes Judgement.
Yeah, but we can't change the fact that there are no gods.
I don't believe in a god, but I don't deny the existence of any god. I just don't know. That was a quote from V For Vendetta. However, I think if belief in a god makes someone a better person then I am all for it.
The problem with religion is humanity. Power corrupts, and I have seen it happen too many times in organized religion, so I swore off ever becoming a member of a church again. And I guess I'm focusing on Christianity here, but I'm sure we could twist any religion. I also see too many places where things just don't make sense. Some churches, I wont name names, believe in the literal reading of, for instance, Revelations. Please explain to me how a loving God, or his son for that matter, would rain such destruction on the creations he is supposed to love, the creations the son died to exempt from Hell in the first place? I believe Jesus was an extraordinary teacher, and I will go so far as to say he was truly Enlightened. But his words have been warped and twisted by men to control and dominate the masses. I try to live a moral life based on all the philosophies and religions I have studied. If "church" gives you what you need to get through, more power to you. I've known preachers who were wonderful men and women, and gave guidance and compassion to those in need. But it is certainly not for me. [steps off soap-box]
I wonder what the percentage would be if we werent raised to believe the fairy tales as fact? I mean, as young children into older children, if we new nothing of religion until we were old enough to learn that other people have different ideas, and then could make a decision based on what we have learned. I think people have such a hard time to let the idea of a god go because we have been 'brainwashed' since we were babies. People feel bad when they question it, and its really ridiculous, you shouldnt feel bad for having an independant thought.
I grew up going to church every Sunday. Then I get to college, take Ancient History 101, and BAM ---funny how all these other cultures share a lot of the same myths. Perhaps they stole them from each other. Hmm, maybe I better rethink my positions.
I wonder what the percentage would be if we werent raised to believe the fairy tales as fact? I mean, as young children into older children, if we new nothing of religion until we were old enough to learn that other people have different ideas, and then could make a decision based on what we have learned. I think people have such a hard time to let the idea of a god go because we have been 'brainwashed' since we were babies. People feel bad when they question it, and its really ridiculous, you shouldnt feel bad for having an independant thought.
But then there are also those of us that were raised going to church but not necessarily believing the bible as "fact" - I would not go so far as to call them fairy tales and think that many would find that offensive.
I was raised to question - I question my God on a daily basis - and I have learned over the years that there ae times that I just have to have faith.
I once asked a professor in my Old Testament class "What if Jesus was just some psycho who had everyone mesmerized and still does to this very day?" His response "That is where faith comes in - faith in a higher being - faith in God"
I choose to have faith. I choose to have God. Does that mean that I think people are going to burn in hell because they don't believe in my God or a god or anything? No - because the God I choose to believe in is an all forgiving God. He gave his Son for the forgiveness of my sins and your sins and their sins and on and on and on.
As to the Eucharist - do I actually believe it has turned into the body and blood of Christ - no - but I do believe that it symbolizes this and it gives me a sense of peace to remember Christ in this way.
I think life and the world would be so much better if everyone respected each other and repected the fact that no one believes in the same way as anyone else. Even in the same religion there will be different beliefs. Who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in - but don't chastise me for my beliefs.
^^^that last sentence was not directed at you Mike - it was just directed generally to anyone that chooses to judge because of someon'e beliefs
Last Edit: Mar 10, 2009 13:06:00 GMT -5 by Meg - Back to Top
I wonder what the percentage would be if we werent raised to believe the fairy tales as fact? I mean, as young children into older children, if we new nothing of religion until we were old enough to learn that other people have different ideas, and then could make a decision based on what we have learned. I think people have such a hard time to let the idea of a god go because we have been 'brainwashed' since we were babies. People feel bad when they question it, and its really ridiculous, you shouldnt feel bad for having an independant thought.
But then there are also those of us that were raised going to church but not necessarily believing the bible as "fact" - I would not go so far as to call them fairy tales and thing that may would find that offensive.
I was raised to question - I question my God on a daily basis - and I have learned over the years that there ae times that I just have to have faith.
I once asked a professor in my Old Testament class "What is Jesus was just some psycho who had everyone mesmerized and still does to this very day?" His response "That is where faith comes in - faith in a higher being - faith in God"
I choose to have faith. I choose to have God. Does that mean that I think people are going to burn in hell because they don't believe in my God or a god or anything? No - because the God I choose to believe in is an all forgiving God. He gave his Son for the forgiveness of my sins and your sins and their sins and on and on and on.
As to the Eucharist - do I actually believe it has turned into the body and blood of Christ - no - but I do believe that it symbolizes this and it gives me a sense of peace to remember Christ in this way.
I think life and the world would be so much better if everyone respected each other and repected the fact that no one believes in the same way as anyone else. Even in the same religion there will be different beliefs. Who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in - but don't chastise me for my beliefs.
^^^that last sentence was not directed at you Mike - it was just directed generally to anyone that chooses to judge because of someon'e beliefs
I agree with you 100% even though I am athesist/agnostic-still on the fence. My problem falls when I get chastised for my beliefs. Like Sam Harris said for every reason you can give me that you think a God exists, I can give you one why I dont believe it. While I find many, many things wrong with organized religion/Christianity/the Bible, who am I to say whats right and wrong? Someone once told me if you're gonna live like there's no God then you better be sure you are right. Can anyone be so sure? But Ive learned to accept those that believe differently than I do and as long as you arent pushing your beliefs on me then we'll get along just fine
^^^^and this is how life should be - no one should push their beliefs on anyone else - the world would be much more peaceful if we all lived like this.
Well, I guess there isn't too much wrong with not having organized religion. The risk of blind faith and bigotry will lessen. But then again, there's a few reasons why I see religion is necessary. I'll get into a couple of them.
1. Religion teaches ethics and morals. Moral codes are necessary in society. Without a code to govern what's right and wrong, who's to stop an "eye for an eye" or "life for an eye" mentality? Now you can say the government can. However, the basic fundamentals of most governments (if not all) are deeply rooted in local religious beliefs. If you look at what the main crimes and taboos are in the States (theft, murder, adultry, etc.), they're extremely similar to the the 10 Commandments. Now although the constitution calls for the seperation of church and state, the two are undoubtly bound together. The church supplies basic human rights which the government takes as laws, and the government doesn't create too many more laws going against these basic principles. Now if we were to take away religion, ethics and morals would be governed by the government. Personally, I'd rather live in a society whose basic ideals revolve around good-intentioned teachings, than one run by corrupt, power-hungry politicians.
2. There are many philosophers and arguments showing that God exists. There are many events, miracles, etc. (how incredible is it that the universe, the planet and humankind exist? The chances just seem too improbable to be purely coincidence.) that show people that there is probably a God up there. Even great logical and analytical minds such as Einstein believed in God. With the belief in God, there needs to be some kind of spiritual community for believers to voice their ideas, ask and answer questions, etc. This is in turn the formation of a sort of religion.
Now I completely agree that there's no need for big time religion. It is easy to see how Christianity and Islam have become tools for mass control. Also, lots of the dumb little practices (going to church, celebrating holidays, fasting, etc.) are pretty useless. However, there needs to be a spiritual aspect to humanity.
I think 1 Corinthians 15:19 sums up my disagrement with this attitude. It says (International Standard Version) that "If we have set our hopes on the Messiah in this life only, we deserve more pitty than any other people.
Religion apart from truth has no value for me. It acutally would have negative value.
but how can you have only truth in religion? At some point, you have to go off of faith.
Meg - I totally agree with your professor. Believing is all about faith. Because there is no way to prove without a doubt that there is God (or gods) of any sort. Believing despite doubt = religion.
And I say this as someone who has too many doubts to believe. But I totally get why others do. I also totally get why people like the rituals of organized religion, be it Catholicism or paganism. Heck, I have a friend who was pescatarian for years and years because she liked having limits on her diet. Why shouldn't one find the same comfort in limits on how to behave?
I don't have a lot to say other than I believe in God (and logically, I think it is absolutely illogical to not believe in some form of godhead), I believe in the separation of Church and State (both tend to corrupt each other), and I think if you're going to base your atheism at what Bill Maher has to think, your viewpoints will end up being entirely shallow and based on a man who's views on the world outside of religion are batshit insane. Don't believe me? Just listen to him rant sometime about how the food companies are all conspiring to kill us with toxins in the food...
I don't have a lot to say other than I believe in God (and logically, I think it is absolutely illogical to not believe in some form of godhead), .
That is very interesting to hear, becuase i think its absolutely illogical TO believe in some sort of godhead . . . .haha.
So you don't believe in an origin to life? It is highly illogical to say life came from nothing at all, whether or not you believe that origin is a conscious being.
Last Edit: Mar 10, 2009 16:08:12 GMT -5 by dudezer47 - Back to Top
it's more illogical to attribute the explanation of the origin of life to an unknown being that exists outside of all measurable scientific principles.
besides, i agree with you. it's completely illogical to believe life suddenly came into existence rather than a series of evolutionary events over a looooooong period of time.
That is very interesting to hear, becuase i think its absolutely illogical TO believe in some sort of godhead . . . .haha.
So you don't believe in an origin to life? It is highly illogical to say life came from nothing at all, whether or not you believe that origin is a conscious being.
I honestly think it all just happened. We are just beings of circumstance, who are lucky enough to have this life and conscious. When we are gone we are gone, so i say enjoy it!
I believe in things I can touch and feel--things that I can prove and see with my own eyes. Im a big believer in science and evolution, but again I dont see the point in arguing since noone can actually prove their side of the argument concretely. Just like the Bible...its a cool story. Jesus was probably a cool guy. Other than that I got nothing
The Big Bang Theory only accounts for how life was set in motion. It cannot account for the origin of matter. The same applies to evolution.
People fundamentally make the mistake in assuming that evolution or the astronomical study of the origins of the universe can in anyway explain anything other than the process by which things occurred.
I wonder if the decline stems more from apathy, or people decidedly choosing they do not believe in any religion for whatever their particular reason may be.
"There is an ancient celtic axiom that says 'Good people drink good beer.' which is true, then as now. Just look around you in any public bar-room, and you will quickly see: Bad people drink bad beer. Think about it."
Also, I noticed a couple people were saying they were raised Catholic and became atheists which really doesn't surprise me because looking back after studying things at a higher level, the Church doesn't really seem to educate kids very well.
You'd think at some point in CCD classes they would tell you little tidbits such as not to interpret the Old Testament literally or as historically accurate.
"You mean Adam and Eve weren't really the first people?" No, sorry Johnny.
"There is an ancient celtic axiom that says 'Good people drink good beer.' which is true, then as now. Just look around you in any public bar-room, and you will quickly see: Bad people drink bad beer. Think about it."
