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Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Aug 10, 2011 2:41:08 GMT -5
Apparently the ratio of TVs to household members and the availability of someone to give you CPR and Epi when you are dying of a heartattack are the hallmark signs of a civilized, "Christian" nation.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Aug 10, 2011 2:56:59 GMT -5
Also, I would like them to enlist a "voluntary" tax increase. Since my Pell grants and period of life living in Public Housing while in college and food stamps and medicaid paid off so well for me that I am just shy of clearing 6 figures, I would like to give back to government programs that could help others do the same with their lives so that they are not spending a lifetime in the system. (BTW, we have full time employed hospital workers who are still eligible for Medicaid etc because their low-tier wages do not lift them above the cut-off for being considered in "poverty"). Yet I digress.
I purchase bonds regularly, donate my time and money to non-profits, but I would like to give more to the government programs that I support. I think that we could provide a very nice percentage of funding if we like minded spirits could somehow pull this off. I can volunteer money to the presidential campaign while filing my taxes, so I would like to also be able to volunteer money to other programs of my choosing. I don't want my cash going to give some yahtzees at BP another golf outing or private jet. I want it to go to some poor families trying to make ends meet on government cheese and free canned goods from the local food bank. Hopefully they are blessed with a TV to ease their daily suffering and hunger pangs and the ego bruising they receive when they are made fun of for going to school wearing the same clothes they wore the day before.
Also, I think such a program would prove wildly successful, since there are a sect of the population who is always trying to "one up" everyone and because of the existence of "social nudges".
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Since the beginning of time there have been poor and rich.
Mankind existed before man-made economies existed. If you think the concept of currency is as old as the concept of fire or mankind itself, you are mistaken.
Poor vs. rich is a dichotomy that has been forced upon mankind by the strong upon the weak only after currencies and economies came into being. It was not created the moment that mankind was created.
Currency is pretty old concept though. It may have not been in the form of money or gold but there has probably always been those who had and those who did not. I only read Forwards post so I really dont know what the coversation is about. I think the whole concept of money is messed up. It is a system that only has the value we decide to put on it and we are too far to turn back. No one understands how a global economy works. There are those with money who can dictate the economy. If someone understood it fully we would not still be in the mess we are in. And with most of the US economy based on the financial and information industries it is more unpredictable than ever. I kind of went on a rant there
Lex-correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were making comparisons on who makes x, who gets taxed y, and who feels it more sounds to me of the democratic chant "tax the rich", or "the rich need to pay their fair share". Perhaps my message was lost, just as many of Pres Obama's messages, or maybe I didn't explain it right. No matter how much you tax the "wealthy", there will always be poor. I just don't understand this mentality that because someone is successful, that they should give more more and more away to the less fortunate.
I find it funny that a lot of liberals, not all, will scream bloody murder if there is a bible anywhere near a govt building, or cry because a child has the option to leave a prayer in a classroom, will sue to block a "national day of prayer", etc: however, when it comes to immigration, or "spreading the wealth", that's when all the talk of being a good "Christian" comes out. For all you religious scholars, doesn't the Bible say something along the lines of "you don't work, you don't eat"?
Lex-correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were making comparisons on who makes x, who gets taxed y, and who feels it more sounds to me of the democratic chant "tax the rich", or "the rich need to pay their fair share". Perhaps my message was lost, just as many of Pres Obama's messages, or maybe I didn't explain it right. No matter how much you tax the "wealthy", there will always be poor. I just don't understand this mentality that because someone is successful, that they should give more more and more away to the less fortunate.
I find it funny that a lot of liberals, not all, will scream bloody murder if there is a bible anywhere near a govt building, or cry because a child has the option to leave a prayer in a classroom, will sue to block a "national day of prayer", etc: however, when it comes to immigration, or "spreading the wealth", that's when all the talk of being a good "Christian" comes out. For all you religious scholars, doesn't the Bible say something along the lines of "you don't work, you don't eat"?
and i'll scream bloody murder if a koran, or any other religious text, is near a government building or in a school too. the reason christians feel so persecuted on this issue is because they're the ones trying to push it where it shouldn't belong.
in regards to taxes, when you factor in sales, gas, property, payroll, and other taxes, the rich pay a lower share of their worth in taxes than the middle class and poor. i guess someone pointed this out already, so what's the response to that? of course there will always be poor people in this country. i am very liberal and had discussion with liberals from all across the country, and no one ever believed things like, 'we should just give all the poor people millions of dollars!'
bush blamed clinton for not getting bin laden and for high oil prices, among other things. he also said the projected surplus was the people's money and that it should be returned to them. so we get his tax cuts and find ourselves with a huge deficit now. so if i'm clear, when there's a surplus, we need to cut the taxes to give people money back. when there's a deficit, we need tax cuts to give people incentives to what, buy yachts, jets, or mansions? does anyone else see the absurdity in this?
trickle down economics still doesn't work, but keep opening wide, maybe it will get to you someday. i sure do admire all the middle and lower class conservatives who are fighting for the right of the rich to pay less in taxes so they can buy more mansions, yachts and jets. that's should provoke some cognitive dissonance but i guess it doesn't. and it's very sad.
oh, and long term, obamacare reduces the federal and private spending on health care. fact.
and from another thread, howard dean is not a billionaire, not even close. but i see you didn't respond to that either, so what do i expect.
For all you religious scholars, doesn't the Bible say something along the lines of "you don't work, you don't eat"?
Proverbs 20:4“A sluggard does not plow in season; so at harvest time he looks but finds nothing”
Yeah, the Bible speaks about laziness and warns about the consequences of it. Just as it speaks and warns about the consequences of greed and materialism. I honestly don't even know what you are trying to say. A know plenty of people that work their butts off and are below the poverty line. Surly you realize life is much more complicated then you sometimes make it out to be in your post.
Since you want to bring up Bible versus to try and make some misguided attempt at proving something. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about helping the poor.
Matthew 25:41-45 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me."
Ezek. 16:49. "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."
Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Prov. 31:8ff. [Commandment to kings.] Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.
Mt. 19:20ff. The young man said to Him, "All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
I could go on and on. The Bible is very very clear on the subject, so it's very relevant to bring this point up when anyone regardless of political affiliation professes to be a Christian but has no interest in the betterment of those less fortunate then him.
This is important in politics because many elected officials profess to be Christians(some are, some feel forced to say it to get elected), but do very little to follow what the Bible clearly states over and over again. It's the height of hypocrisy. God commands us to take care of the poor and love the dregs of society. It's plane and simple.
And as to the Bible in the courtroom and all that jazz. I've never heard a single left winger say a thing about it. I think you are blowing that way out of proportion. Plus, this nation was founded on a separation of church and state, so it's not like people don't have a right to speak out about those issues. I personal don't care either way. Kids could read a lot worse things then the Bible.
Edit for clarity: I've never heard a left-winger that I personally know "cry" or get bent out of shape about the Bible being here or there.
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2011 2:23:42 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I just don't understand this mentality that because someone is successful, that they should give more more and more away to the less fortunate.
It's called compassion. It's a feeling not a mentality. It's called Catholic guilt or Christian guilt for some of us. It is what most of us in this nation were taught from our Genesis. It is also what happens to a species that has lost most of our natural instincts. In order for our species to survive we must form communities and care for one another. It is also what anyone who is not a certified sociopath has SOME desire to do. And it should be done whether you are successful or not. There are always those less fortunate than you.
Also, I <3 SFA so hard. And I think bluelikeshail rocks. And, even though I don't agree with jigawig on this topic, I think he is a cool guy. And if he was ever in need, he can come and sleep at my house and I'll feed and clothe him.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Aug 11, 2011 23:37:55 GMT -5
Also, who can rail on people wanting to help the poor? Really? Isn't there something better to be fighting against in this world than people wanting to help those with less? Really? Has all perspective been lost?
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
For all you religious scholars, doesn't the Bible say something along the lines of "you don't work, you don't eat"?
Proverbs 20:4“A sluggard does not plow in season; so at harvest time he looks but finds nothing”
Yeah, the Bible speaks about laziness and warns about the consequences of it. Just as it speaks and warns about the consequences of greed and materialism. I honestly don't even know what you are trying to say. A know plenty of people that work their butts off and are below the poverty line. Surly you realize life is much more complicated then you sometimes make it out to be in your post.
Since you want to bring up Bible versus to try and make some misguided attempt at proving something. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about helping the poor.
Matthew 25:41-45 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me."
Ezek. 16:49. "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."
Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Prov. 31:8ff. [Commandment to kings.] Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.
Mt. 19:20ff. The young man said to Him, "All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
I could go on and on. The Bible is very very clear on the subject, so it's very relevant to bring this point up when anyone regardless of political affiliation professes to be a Christian but has no interest in the betterment of those less fortunate then him.
This is important in politics because many elected officials profess to be Christians(some are, some feel forced to say it to get elected), but do very little to follow what the Bible clearly states over and over again. It's the height of hypocrisy. God commands us to take care of the poor and love the dregs of society. It's plane and simple.
And as to the Bible in the courtroom and all that jazz. I've never heard a single left winger say a thing about it. I think you are blowing that way out of proportion. Plus, this nation was founded on a separation of church and state, so it's not like people don't have a right to speak out about those issues. I personal don't care either way. Kids could read a lot worse things then the Bible.
Well said SFA. One thing i like to point out is what you said about the hypocrisy of religious politicians. There's a great quote I heard related to that topic. "They care about the profits but not the prophets".
Messages like those exampled above and "the meek shall inherit the earth" really exemplify why religion can be a great basis for morality and ethics. Used in the right way, it can be used to help better our moral compass i.e Pastor Martin Luther King. Unfortunately, in the wrong way it can be used to solidify power and force a status quo based on an intolerance of non like- minded individuals i.e Jerry Falwell.
Good to see you are someone enlightened by the good message in the Bible. I too love you but not as much as LLL....okay maybe a little.
All excellent answers...I really do enjoy reading them. Perhaps I am coming off as someone who doesn't give a sh*t about people, which is as far from the truth as possible (hard to believe, I'm sure). I'm all for helping out those in need, just with a different mentality than most on here.
My main beef is "how much is enough?". I know most don't like talking about taxes solely by INCOME tax, but be honest, the people paying for the majority are having more and more taken from them. Is it right that the economy gets worse, many ILLEGAL citizens taking advantage of social services, families having more kids (even when they know they can't afford to take care of themselves), etc, and them same percentage of people have to cough up the bill? S&P noted that major entitlement reform must occur in order to get our credit rating where it was...yes, they also said increased revenue. However, when you have minds like Harry Reid, who has stated he won't touch entitlements under his watch, well you have to wonder if the left will budge on the "things they're owed". Also, don't we already have Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, housing, food stamps, unemployment benefits? Are those programs not signs of compassion? I get it...it's not enough. We need more Robin Hood bills so everyone can be equal...right?
I'm still not convinced as to why libs take of compassion, and trying to be like Christ was with the poor/immigrants. For the most part, we all lead secular lives...some more than others. People lie, cheat, steal, sex before marriage, overconsume, live with each other before marriage, destroy life (abortions...which I support, but would never go through), etc etc. However, when it comes to playing Robin Hood, that's when libs want to be Christ-like. Hell, there's no such thing as Merry Christmas anymore, it's Happy Holidays. Airports can't even hang Christmas decorations because someone will get offended. So don't give me this "wwjd to help the poor" because it's a cop out for demanding more money. Basically, it is libs that are killing God...abortions, gay rights, taking God out of military funerals, schools not allowing the Pledge of Allegiance because of it's last verse, and the list goes on.
I know there are people that work their asses off, and below poverty level, but that's life. No one ever said life was going to be fair, or easy. However, that's what Bertha Lewis (high-up for ACORN) wants...a level playing field for all.
I respect all your opinions, and am enjoying this little debate. Lacklove, your offer would apply if you or anyone from here, the other boards i frequent, someone needing a helping hand showed up at my door.
All excellent answers...I really do enjoy reading them. Perhaps I am coming off as someone who doesn't give a sh*t about people, which is as far from the truth as possible (hard to believe, I'm sure). I'm all for helping out those in need, just with a different mentality than most on here.
My main beef is "how much is enough?". I know most don't like talking about taxes solely by INCOME tax, but be honest, the people paying for the majority are having more and more taken from them. Is it right that the economy gets worse, many ILLEGAL citizens taking advantage of social services, families having more kids (even when they know they can't afford to take care of themselves), etc, and them same percentage of people have to cough up the bill? S&P noted that major entitlement reform must occur in order to get our credit rating where it was...yes, they also said increased revenue. However, when you have minds like Harry Reid, who has stated he won't touch entitlements under his watch, well you have to wonder if the left will budge on the "things they're owed". Also, don't we already have Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, housing, food stamps, unemployment benefits? Are those programs not signs of compassion? I get it...it's not enough. We need more Robin Hood bills so everyone can be equal...right?
I'm still not convinced as to why libs take of compassion, and trying to be like Christ was with the poor/immigrants. For the most part, we all lead secular lives...some more than others. People lie, cheat, steal, sex before marriage, overconsume, live with each other before marriage, destroy life (abortions...which I support, but would never go through), etc etc. However, when it comes to playing Robin Hood, that's when libs want to be Christ-like. Hell, there's no such thing as Merry Christmas anymore, it's Happy Holidays. Airports can't even hang Christmas decorations because someone will get offended. So don't give me this "wwjd to help the poor" because it's a cop out for demanding more money. Basically, it is libs that are killing God...abortions, gay rights, taking God out of military funerals, schools not allowing the Pledge of Allegiance because of it's last verse, and the list goes on.
I know there are people that work their donkeys off, and below poverty level, but that's life. No one ever said life was going to be fair, or easy. However, that's what Bertha Lewis (high-up for ACORN) wants...a level playing field for all.
I respect all your opinions, and am enjoying this little debate. Lacklove, your offer would apply if you or anyone from here, the other boards i frequent, someone needing a helping hand showed up at my door.
Let's talk about social services. I don't like how Democrats really do not have a plan to the long terms costs of these entitlement programs. It's the biggest part of our budget and it needs reform, unfortunately it can only get reform if we reform the healthcare industry first. Which is where my beef with Republicans lies, they ONLY want to get rid of progressive policies. Yet they always turn a blind eye to minor tax increases to create equity. I mean really, Estate tax renamed the Death Tax. BS I mean really, I want to tax the estates of people who are 8 times removed from the Vanderbilts. They have done nothing to earn that money besides being a seed. They are just as worthless as illegals who don't file income taxes. That and conservatives never want to go after tax shelters abroad. They always say cut out Medicaid, but refuse to reform tax policies regarding offshore accounts in the Caribbean and Swiss bank accounts. Which average Americans don't have acces to, which by the way should be more rewarded on our taxes for supporting an American business. Fiscal conservatives are limp wristed and sackless when they try to go after corporations who are trying to undermine democracy, so they instead go to bed with them. As long as we have a GOP president, healthcare industry will never be reformed. You need an example, Gov. Rick Perry whose policies in Texas have made cuts in education and social services, while maintaining an unemployment that's only .5% off the national average. Did he make any fiscal reform to revenue and taxes, nope. So our knowledge and the concept of helping others is marginalized but GREED STAYS GOOD. That is really the credo behind the GOPs mask while Democrats are idealist without being practical with spending. (I.e Obama trying to get a high speed rail while we are in two conflicts and in debt, really?!)
As far as liberals "killing" God. An exaggeration but they do condone more secular ideas. It is statistically true that atheists and agnostics tend to vote more liberal. But isn't social beneficial policies that are not tied to religion (housing reform,social security) more in spirit to God's message then a Jerry Falwell (Baptist Evangelist) who claims feminism, homosexuals, Islams, and Hindus are "devilish". Yeah he's a religious figure but he spouts hatred and intolerance that goes against the message of love spread by Jesus Christ. Taking God out of military funerals does annoy me because death requires a spiritual presence. Gay rights does not go against the bible in my opinion. Bible states love for everyone who wishes no harm and frankly a happily married gay couple is better for the sanctity of marriage then an Elvis Chapel in Vegas. Religion in schools I'm against, because you create that foothole for religion to be used as a conformity tool and power base rather than spiritual guidance. I say keep it as private worship so it keeps the message pure.
Well Acorn is no more. An organization that asked for better urban housing, voter registration, and healthcare for low to moderate income people. How dare they undermine democracy? Another progressive idea stamped out by conservatives. Did anybody else felt offended when Fox News once broadcasted a story that it was a front for gang activity during Obama's campaign?
I respect to disagree with you jigawig. But unless the Republicans really make an honest effort to reform themselves, they are just a bunch of greedy b-astards. I also agree to offer a hand to help or to shake.
Last Edit: Aug 17, 2011 15:32:36 GMT -5 by Jury - Back to Top
...Taking God out of military funerals does annoy me because death requires a spiritual presence.
I'm just pickin' this one bit out as it's your only point I disagree with. Death does not require any spiritual presence. It's a fact of life. If the family wants some kinda spiritual/religious presence then by all means allow it on an individual basis maybe.
...Taking God out of military funerals does annoy me because death requires a spiritual presence.
I'm just pickin' this one bit out as it's your only point I disagree with. Death does not require any spiritual presence. It's a fact of life. If the family wants some kinda spiritual/religious presence then by all means allow it on an individual basis maybe.
You are right. Require is bad wording. The family and the wishes of the deceased must be honored and respected upmost, whether they want religious presence or not. Society should honor personal freedoms.
I admit, personal bias slipped because I'm a big believer of the soul and its transference to the spiritual realm. Whether it be heaven, the universe, the planet...who knows? I believe the words of religious text or a spiritual guide (ie pastor) have importance to the soul as it leaves for the afterlife. It's what I would want at my funeral. These are ideas deeply influenced by my Christian upbringing and overall philosophy. I did not wish to make it look like it should be required for everyone.
Jury, I agree with a lot of what you say. There is a need for all kinds of reform; taxes, immigration, entitlement, etc. However, until laws change, the law is the law.
Just a thought, and not really anything to do with Obama, but why are most libs so quick to use the federal govt powers as a reason to not enforce immigration, and yet they are okay with states allowing medicinal pot? Does the same logic not apply across the board, or just what libs know will get them votes? Btw, all for people coming to America to have a better life, from wherever, as long as it's LEGAL, and pro NORML
Edit...wow, speaking of immigration, radical news!! Turns out "You Lie" Joe Wilson was right when he shouted you lie. The comment was in regards to Pres Obama stating that illegals WOULD NOT be covered under the healthcare law. Turns out clinics in the areas where illegals are known to live will not be checking the immigration status of it's clients. Oh wait, compassion. Also, they will not be deporting many that are here illegally, just ask Janet Napolitano. To boot, those not deported will also be eligible for work visas! Our current national unemployment rate is 9.1 or 9.2%, now, you will have illegals competing with Americans for jobs. Oh wait, compassion.
As stated, all for immigration reform, but until that happens ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL!!! I know it is unrealistic to deport everyone here that has broken immigration laws, and I would not mind the whole "backdoor amnesty", only if the border was sealed. With that open border we will be having this same discussion in twenty to twenty-five yrs from now. Oh wait...wait for it....compassion.
Great way to try to get reelected...appease more that don't pay INCOME TAXES.
Jury, I agree with a lot of what you say. There is a need for all kinds of reform; taxes, immigration, entitlement, etc. However, until laws change, the law is the law.
Just a thought, and not really anything to do with Obama, but why are most libs so quick to use the federal govt powers as a reason to not enforce immigration, and yet they are okay with states allowing medicinal pot? Does the same logic not apply across the board, or just what libs know will get them votes? Btw, all for people coming to America to have a better life, from wherever, as long as it's LEGAL, and pro NORML
Edit...wow, speaking of immigration, radical news!! Turns out "You Lie" Joe Wilson was right when he shouted you lie. The comment was in regards to Pres Obama stating that illegals WOULD NOT be covered under the healthcare law. Turns out clinics in the areas where illegals are known to live will not be checking the immigration status of it's clients. Oh wait, compassion. Also, they will not be deporting many that are here illegally, just ask Janet Napolitano. To boot, those not deported will also be eligible for work visas! Our current national unemployment rate is 9.1 or 9.2%, now, you will have illegals competing with Americans for jobs. Oh wait, compassion.
As stated, all for immigration reform, but until that happens ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL!!! I know it is unrealistic to deport everyone here that has broken immigration laws, and I would not mind the whole "backdoor amnesty", only if the border was sealed. With that open border we will be having this same discussion in twenty to twenty-five yrs from now. Oh wait...wait for it....compassion.
Great way to try to get reelected...appease more that don't pay INCOME TAXES.
Wow you sound like a conservative jacktool. So your faulting Obama because free clinics are not checking citizenship to illegals? I'm pretty sure that's a state issue there buddy. You have to qualify as a citizen to get Obamacare. So if you found anyone illegal in this country they get deported. You sound like Tancredo and he was an embarrasment. So what do we do, round them up, put them on planes, and ship them to Mexico. It would cost waay more money to the money they do generate through property taxes and their pay checks that get the usual deductions from where they work. Now if there not getting pay checks from where they work but only cash, then the business is not doing this legally. Which leads to my next point.
Meanwhile, you totally ignore the fact companies are complicit in hiring them. Walmart did it and so do all the big Farm Co-ops. On a small business scale, you got contractors hiring guys in front of Home Depot not asking if they are immigrants. You also act so pissed off about work visas, that is a step on them becoming legal. It's a way for companies to get workers quicker than waiting around the mess of bureaucracy that is USCIS. Work visas are great way to deal with the constant wave of immigration. Now there are conservatives I've met who have said "Well, we managed immigrants just fine at Ellis island. It wasn't nearly as bad as Mexico".it's easier to stop people if they are on a quackin boat, Mexico is huge land border that stretches from California all the way to Texas. They are going to get through. So instead of getting all nativist bullhonkey and say we need to hunt them down. We integrate them and get them to contribute to society. As for the unemployed person who lost a job to a Mexican. If you lost a job to someone who is poorer than you, from a worse education, and cannot speak English. Come on, Man. One more nugget of knowledge for you. You know who wanted to create more work visas. George W Bush! Yeah, but don't worry the Republicans in the Senate said no to that. And I HATE how you fiscal conservatives always blame the government or the people. But never the quackin companies that finance all this poop. It's quackin ignorant.
Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011 2:07:49 GMT -5 by Jury - Back to Top
Post by LoveLuckLaughter on Aug 20, 2011 4:18:30 GMT -5
I'm going to ignore your silly "compassion" remarks that are clearly mimicking what I had said about helping the less fortunate, since nothing I was speaking of had anything to do with immigration laws and I don't see the connection at all.
However, I would like to point out that illegal immigrants are entitled to, under law, emergency care. When someone walks into an emergency room requesting care, regardless of how non-emergent the request seems (ie sore throat), they are very rarely turned away. This is because every Dr has to cover his ass to avoid being sued. If someone comes in with a sore throat, is refused assessment and care due to it being "non-emergent", and it turnes out to be, say obstructing epiglottitis, and the person dies....... Therefore, most hospital systems have a policy of seeing anyone who walks in the door, regardless of ability to pay or reason for visit. This is actually the reason I have lost my job. Our hospital was 13million dollars in the red because we are in the poorest community in Cleveland and a HUGE percentage of our patients have no insurance whatsoever (including no Medicaid or Medicare). However, due to the ever increasing number of lawsuits brought against Drs and hospitals (some completely frivolous, some legitimate), no one gets turned away.
The average emergency room visit costs around 1200. The average clinic visit costs under 200 bucks. Factor in those with a chronic illness that requires subsequent hospitalization that could have been prevented by routine clinic care and we are talking HUGE savings by allowing those who are entitled to emergent care to also have access to clinic care. HUGE savings to you and I and other taxpayers and buyers of insurance because hospitals do manage to recoup part of that money by increasing the price that we pay, or by tapping into federal dollars set aside for indigent care.
In this matter, and any time we are talking about medical care for the uninsured, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
I am sick of having had, on multiple occasions, my To Catch A Predator preempted by news footage of people spontaneously celebrating outside the White House. Damn you, Obama!
We're all a mess of paradoxes. Believing in things we know can't be true. We walk around carrying feelings too complicated and contradictory to express. But when it all becomes too big, and words aren't enough to help get it all out, there's always music.
Seeing as the past week has seen the third anniversary of his election and passed the "one year until Election 2012" mark, I think this thread deserves a bump.
Election 2011 was today. Plenty of interesting races on the scorecard.
Ohio: Two ballot initiatives tonight served as a preview of things to come regarding a couple of controversial topics. Voters repealed SB5, Gov. Kasich's bill restricting collective bargaining rights, by a margin of twenty points. Voters chose to prohibit individual mandates for purchasing health insurance, by upwards of thirty points.
Mississippi: A proposed constitutional amendment to grant personhood and its according rights from the moment of conception was surprisingly shot down by sixteen points. Both candidates for governor had supported the measure. Republican Lt. Gov. Phil Bryant was elected to succeed outgoing Gov. Haley Barbour.
Arizona: State senate president Russell Pearce, author of the controversial SB1070 immigration law, lost his seat to a fellow Republican in a recall election.
Kentucky: Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear won reelection against the state senate president by twenty points.
Maine: Voters overturned a law recently enacted by state Republicans which would have eliminated same-day voter registration.
Iowa: Democrat Liz Mathis won a special election by sixteen points. The race had the potential of creating a tie in the senate, where the governor and state's lower house are already Republican.
Virginia: Control of the state senate rests on two races too close to call tonight. Republicans need to gain three seats, had ten races pegged as "winnable," and have only decisively gained a single seat.
Wisconsin: Democrat Jen Billings defeated her Republican challenger by a margin of 72-27 for a seat in the Wisconsin Assembly. She will take the seat vacated by (now-) Sen. Jen Shilling as a result of this summer's recall elections.
With the exceptions of the Mississippi gubernatorial race, the undecided Virginia races, and the individual mandate referendum being a wash in partisan terms... it looks like a pretty good night for Democrats.
Post by Dave Maynar on Dec 12, 2011 20:15:07 GMT -5
Honestly, the presidential race reminds me a lot of 2004 except with the sides reversed. The Democrats have a very beatable incumbent in the White House, but the best the Republicans can come up with is Newt Gingrich, seriously?!?
I figure this is as good a place to post this as any. I pay attention to Arizona politics but I really had no idea how bad it is. I am truly disgusted by the actions of Sheriff Joe and his goons in Maricopa County. At least it looks like this investigation will mean things will be getting better.
"The report also said he and some top staffers tried to silence people who have spoken out against the sheriff's office by arresting people without cause, filing meritless lawsuits against opponents and starting investigations of critics."
"The civil rights report said Latinos are four to nine times more likely to be stopped in traffic stops in Maricopa County than non-Latinos and that the agency's immigration policies treat Latinos as if they are all in the country illegally. Deputies on the immigrant-smuggling squad stop and arrest Latino drivers without good cause, the investigation found."
"Detention officers refused to accept forms requesting basic daily services and reporting mistreatment when the documents were completed in Spanish and pressured Latinos with limited English skills to sign forms that implicate their legal rights without language assistance. The agency pressures Latinos with limited English skills to sign forms by yelling at them and keeping them in uncomfortably cold cells for long periods of time."