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I don't think we should help people who live above their means.
All I said was that I understand how it can happen that someone making $250K can be struggling.
It's like when I was in college - going to Applebee's was an extravagance. Buying heady nugs instead of some downtown brown was a super rare occurrence. Now, I'm in a different situation where Applebee's is about the last place I'd have dinner and would rather have nothing if the good stuff wasn't available.
I *could* have racked up a huge credit card bill and lived life to the fullest, but I was frugal and lived within my $150 bi-weekly paychecks.
I don't think we should help people who live above their means.
All I said was that I understand how it can happen that someone making $250K can be struggling.
It's like when I was in college - going to Applebee's was an extravagance. Buying heady nugs instead of some downtown brown was a super rare occurrence. Now, I'm in a different situation where Applebee's is about the last place I'd have dinner and would rather have nothing if the good stuff wasn't available.
I *could* have racked up a huge credit card bill and lived life to the fullest, but I was frugal and lived within my $150 bi-weekly paychecks.
See - that is where my issue with welfare comes into play - "most" (not all) of the people that are on welfare - are living in government houseing, collecting a government check and food stamps. They eat better then I do - they buy steak and hamburger meat for their dog, they wear brand name clothing - not just brand name - designer clothing and drive cars that i cannot afford insurance on. How? because they are milking the system. The sit at home and sell drugs to make spending money - all the while collecting the govt. check because the drug money - of course - is an all cash business so they don't have to report it as income.
Post by strumntheguitar on Nov 13, 2008 17:54:17 GMT -5
As far as people making 250,000-300k a year struggling... that's just ludacris.
My dad doesn't make 300,000 a year, but close to it. He's really struggling with his BMW convertible and Jeep, his own gated community apartment complex, and playing golf 3 days a week along with his gym membership.
I want to "struggle." If that's struggling, what do you call eating ramen noodles for a week straight and drinking nothing but water and natty light for a month because you can't even splurge on a gallon of milk? And driving?? What the hell is that... walking is free. Cause that's about where I am...
As far as people making 250,000-300k a year struggling... that's just ludacris.
My dad doesn't make 300,000 a year, but close to it. He's really struggling with his BMW convertible and Jeep, his own gated community apartment complex, and playing golf 3 days a week along with his gym membership.
I want to "struggle." If that's struggling, what do you call eating ramen noodles for a week straight and drinking nothing but water and natty light for a month because you can't even splurge on a gallon of milk? And driving?? What the hell is that... walking is free. Cause that's about where I am...
Just wanted to pop in and say, while I am a huge supporter of Obama and the Dems in general, some small business owners may be considered to be making $250,000+, but a lot of that money isn't going in their pockets - its going to keeping their business running. And some people that make $250,000 may be putting 4 kids through college, paying for care for elderly parents, all while trying to save so they don't have to life a life in retirement that doesn't reflect how hard they worked their whole lives. They are certainly not poor, but those things could surely be a financial struggle. Just playing Devil's advocate.
Post by chicojuarz on Nov 13, 2008 22:05:39 GMT -5
If we're talking about small business owners they should not be using individual tax law if their business is making over a 250,000 profit. That would be insane. There's a big difference between taxable income and actual income. If you're self employed and you want to take home $250,000 in cash you're going to be screwed no matter what. You'd be much better off taking home a much smaller sum and contibuting to a SEP IRA before taxes!! You're still paying yourself. If you are actually making $250k and not self employed you can still find a lot of methods to move your cash around and reduce taxable income. And the vast majority of millionaires in this world dont ever make even $100,000 a year.
The majority of small business owners in America don't make $250K a year. If you do, then you're doing it wrong. As part of a family small business, I have learned about expense accounts, gas cards, company provided health care, etc that do not count toward your income. Those things are all part of the fringe benefits of owning a small business. So while I could see a cause for concern, its not a legitimate issue unless the business owner has the dumbest accountant ever.
I don't think we should help people who live above their means.
All I said was that I understand how it can happen that someone making $250K can be struggling.
It's like when I was in college - going to Applebee's was an extravagance. Buying heady nugs instead of some downtown brown was a super rare occurrence. Now, I'm in a different situation where Applebee's is about the last place I'd have dinner and would rather have nothing if the good stuff wasn't available.
I *could* have racked up a huge credit card bill and lived life to the fullest, but I was frugal and lived within my $150 bi-weekly paychecks.
See - that is where my issue with welfare comes into play - "most" (not all) of the people that are on welfare - are living in government houseing, collecting a government check and food stamps. They eat better then I do - they buy steak and hamburger meat for their dog, they wear brand name clothing - not just brand name - designer clothing and drive cars that i cannot afford insurance on. How? because they are milking the system. The sit at home and sell NO NO WORD!!!! to make spending money - all the while collecting the govt. check because the NO NO WORD!!!! money - of course - is an all cash business so they don't have to report it as income.
excuse me but... Meg, do you actually KNOW any of these people??!!?
I doubt it. For your information, I've accepted food stamps. It was when me and my kid were just out of an abusive relationship. We had no choice. I didn't sell drugs, i didn't have a nice car... or anything I lived with my mom, my dog ate my leftovers I find your position offensive. the MAJORITY of people who take gov't help are desperate. Benifits are TINY compared to having an actual job.
You have NO IDEA... get over yourself
Oh, and BTW... Clinton (a Democrat) is credited with overhauling the welfare system so that it was more difficult to "abuse the system"... there are time limits and work requirements in place.
gain some perspective, especially in these times. The economy is CRAP. It's hard for a lot of honest hard working people. Just relax and go pay for another dance lesson
I voted for Obama for the same reason I voted for Clinton AND Gore... they KNOW I exist. (A single mom who struggles EVERY month)... McCain didn't have a clue about me... and like you, doesn't give a crap. You just focus on the "MYTH" that's been fed to you about the poor. Do you know what it's like to consider living in your car?!? I doubt it.
See - that is where my issue with welfare comes into play - ".
excuse me but... Meg, do you actually KNOW any of these people??!!?
I doubt it. For your information, I've accepted food stamps. It was when me and my kid were just out of an abusive relationship. We had no choice. I didn't sell drugs, i didn't have a nice car... or anything I lived with my mom, my dog ate my leftovers I find your position offensive. the MAJORITY of people who take gov't help are desperate. Benifits are TINY compared to having an actual job.
You have NO IDEA... get over yourself
Oh, and BTW... Clinton (a Democrat) is credited with overhauling the welfare system so that it was more difficult to "abuse the system"... there are time limits and work requirements in place.
gain some perspective, especially in these times. The economy is CRAP. It's hard for a lot of honest hard working people. Just relax and go pay for another dance lesson
I voted for Obama for the same reason I voted for Clinton AND Gore... they KNOW I exist. (A single mom who struggles EVERY month)... McCain didn't have a clue about me... and like you, doesn't give a crap. You just focus on the "MYTH" that's been fed to you about the poor. Do you know what it's like to consider living in your car?!? I doubt it.
seriously.
Get over myself - come on - I am not sure why you wanted to jump in here at the end of 4 pages other then to personally attack me for my veiws - this was a nice discussion with no one calling anyone else by name and all of us just putting our views out there until you posted.
AND yes I know these people
and yes - I have been on food stamps - I have lived in Govt. housing - I have depended on WIC and Medicaid when two of my kids were born -
so I have been there and done that also.
Come to Mississippi and you will find the people milking the system. The people that pull up in a Cadillac to get their food stamps while I am trying to explain that the only vehicle I own is not worth the $5,000 they say it is worth when they are trying to deny me food stamps.
You want to know the truth - I live in a house that is in my parents name because my credit is shot to hell from a nasty divorce - my parents pay for my kids dance and music lessons and up until 5 years ago - they were paying for their clothing and necessities also. Boz is driving his mothers car at the moment because we cannot afford to have my van fixed. Oh and she also pays the car note on the vehicle I am driving that she co-signed for because we just can't make the payment at the moment.
I live paycheck to paycheck and sometimes not even that - I worry each week about whetherI will have to write a hot check for gas to get back and forth to work - I survive by feeding my family with less then $75 a week. My light bill, gas bill and water bill continually run one month behind and I end up paying them when I get the disconnect notice. I have student loans that has been in default many many times - just wating for tax time to roll around so that I can apply my refund and get them caught up or request another forebearance.
So until you walk in my shoes - don't point fingers at me and say that I don't know what I am talking about. You don't have a monopoly on misery - you are not the only one that has struggled.
And I repeat again - most (not all) of the people that are on welfare - are living in government houseing, collecting a government check and food stamps. They eat better then I do - they buy steak and hamburger meat for their dog, they wear brand name clothing - not just brand name - designer clothing and drive cars that i cannot afford insurance on. How? because they are milking the system. The sit at home and sell NO NO WORD!!!! to make spending money - all the while collecting the govt. check because the NO NO WORD!!!! money - of course - is an all cash business so they don't have to report it as income
I have been in line with these people as they laugh and joke about buying steak and hamburger meat to feed their dog because the food stamps won't pay for dog food. I have lived in and stayed in the gov't housing with friends and watched the amount of NO NO WORD!!!! that flows in and out of the projects.
And notice I said most (not all) but the MAJORITY of people on welfare in the state of Mississippi are there because they don't want to get out and work! And unless you live here - you would not know that.
Last Edit: Nov 14, 2008 7:44:29 GMT -5 by Meg - Back to Top
I have to say as someone who has had a hard run and used both welfare and food stamps I am very, very offended. How can you even begin to defend a claim that the majority of people using these are bad people? How on Earth can you claim that you see them all pull up in their Cadillacs and brag about how they feed their dogs steak? That is beyond comprehension!
Lets be serious how many people have you heard say and do this in order for you to argue that the majority of the people are drugdealers abusing the system? 50? 150? 10,000? How many have you personally heard say and do this? Who are these people?
Then you attempt to justify all of this by explaining how you have used the system in the past. So by that logic you know how the majority of us live.
Now I am not trying to make this personal at all. I dont even know you in the slightest. I am merely responding to personal attacks on people like myself which are entirely unfounded.
But seriously you go to concerts, right? You have at the very least one computer, right? So how then can you claim to have it so rough? How can you complain about not having the money to tkae care of your own kids in one thread and then talk about going to see the black crows in another? How are you not doing the very same thigs you are talking about? Because I am sorry but for someone to attack how poor people spend their money and then talk about how hard they have it yet they can go to all types of concerts and whatnot is hypocrisy at its finest.
I have to say as someone who has had a hard run and used both welfare and food stamps I am very, very offended. How can you even begin to defend a claim that the majority of people using these are bad people? How on Earth can you claim that you see them all pull up in their Cadillacs and brag about how they feed their dogs steak? That is beyond comprehension!
Hmmm - I can claim that because that is what I have seen and experienced - and as I said in previous posts - this is what I have encountered in Mississippi and this is how it is for the majority of the people I have encountered that LIVE on welfare - I am not talking about people that use it when it is needed. I am talking about 2nd and 3rd generations on welfare. How it can be beyond comprehension for you to believe that it is something I have seen and heard, I don't know.
Lets be serious how many people have you heard say and do this in order for you to argue that the majority of the people are drugdealers abusing the system? 50? 150? 10,000? How many have you personally heard say and do this? Who are these people?
I have heard this more then once and witnessed people pulling out their EBT cards to pay for this as they joke around with the cashier about it. as to who these people are - they are the normal strangers that you encounter in the grocery store
Then you attempt to justify all of this by explaining how you have used the system in the past. So by that logic you know how the majority of us live.
I in no way attemped to justify anything to you or anyone else - Alyroo was the one that came out and attacked me saying I don't know what I am talking about and indicating that I have never been in that situation. All I did was clarify that I have been in that situation.
Now I am not trying to make this personal at all. I dont even know you in the slightest. I am merely responding to personal attacks on people like myself which are entirely unfounded.
How was it a personal attack on you? Do you live in Mississippi? Are you LIVING off of welfare without trying to better yourself and find a job to support yourself? Do you sit in government housing and sell drugs for cash so that you don't have to report the income?
But seriously you go to concerts, right? You have at the very least one computer, right? So how then can you claim to have it so rough? How can you complain about not having the money to tkae care of your own kids in one thread and then talk about going to see the black crows in another? How are you not doing the very same thigs you are talking about? Because I am sorry but for someone to attack how poor people spend their money and then talk about how hard they have it yet they can go to all types of concerts and whatnot is hypocrisy at its finest.
I get to go to concerts once or twice a year and alot of the time it is because it was a special occasion and someone else bought the tickets - yes I am going to see The Black Crowes - the tickets were a birthday present for Boz and I have scrimped and saved over the past 4 months in order to pay for the gas and the hotel.
Yes I have a computer AND internet at home - I also have two school age children that do have the need for a computer for schoolwork as well as access to the internet. But also - I have the money to take care of my kids now - my parents pay for the extras that they want the kids to have. My MIL pays the car note so that I do have the money for the two older kids and the money needed for daycare for the youngest so that I can work. Boz does not make alot of money because he is a cop and -in case you did not know- they don't exactly make alot of money if they are honest cops.
You stated that you don't know me and you are right - you don't know me so I am not sure why you decided to jump in here and make the two posts you made in this thread as your first posts on this board and decide to start off by attacking someone you know nothing about.
I'll say it again - this was a nice peaceful discussion up untilthis point. I was enjoying reading other peoples views on a variety of things and I tend to have an open mind and can be persuaded to change my mind about things given enough information.
My issue with welfare if the people that milk the system and LIVE off of welfare not the people that truly need it and - fact is - the majority (which last time I checked only had to be more the 50%) of people on welfare in Mississippi are milking the system.
If that makes me a racist - then so be it - I disciminate against people that LIVE on welfare - whether they are black, white, blue, red, purple - I don't care - if you are LIVING off of the system and not trying to make a better life for yourself without a handout from the government - then I have no use for you.
This word also has a underground meaning once you break it down. Let’s take “Bonn” for example and it actually turns into the word “Bone”. We all know gays use this word to describe the action of when they are fecal fisting their Cuban cabana boy at their sex bath house parties. Now let’s look at Roo, “Roo” is short for “Kangaroo”.So put the full true message together and you get“Bone a Kangaroo
You still do not explain how or hwere you came up with the figure that "the majority" of people on welfare and using food stamps are drugdealers that abuse the system. Be it in mississippi or anywhere. You have said that you see them in line joking with cashiers, and getting out of their cadillacs. But you havent given even one source of how you can speak for the majority of people.
There are 20,000 families in Mississippi on Welfare and over 45,000 individual recipients. There is just no logical way that you can claim to speak for the majority based off of what you saw in line at a cashier or the number of people you have seen pulling up in their Cadillac.
This state website has a welfare fraud hotline that you can report those that abuse the system to. IMO it would be much more proactive to do something about those people than to hinder all the people not abusing the system. www.mdhs.state.ms.us/
I never said you were attacking me, I said it was an attack on people like me. As in people that use or have used government assistance. To answer your question, no I am not one of the people that are abusing it. But I find it hard to believe that you have firsthand knowledge that over 10,000 families in Mississippi are.
Once again not attacking you personally in anyway. I am just responding to what you wrote before I even joined.
i know this is an extremely heated and very personal topic, but we have to try to keep it civil and reign in the personal attacks all around.
let's keep it on topic without directly pointing fingers, so we don't have to lock it up!
thank you
I apologize - I'll bow out so that you don't have to lock the topic - it has been a pretty informative thread
^^^see above
as a side note - I am disappointed and saddened at the turn this thread has taken and for my part in it - it was a nice calm discussion on lots of subjects. So now - I will go back to lurking and just replying to messages here and there in order to stay out of the drama that some people just cannot help but start and be a part of.
To say the majority of a group does something needs evidence to back it up. Hearing 1 person in line at the grocery store doesn't cut it. And even if the majority of people in a given area do something, that in no way represents all of America. Based on the 3 people that have come forward and said that they have received government aid, ALL have used the system the way that it was intended. So I find it difficult to say with any accuracy that the majority abuse the system based on your encounters with the people in your immediate area.
I apologize - I'll bow out so that you don't have to lock the topic - it has been a pretty informative thread
^^^see above
as a side note - I am disappointed and saddened at the turn this thread has taken and for my part in it - it was a nice calm discussion on lots of subjects. So now - I will go back to lurking and just replying to messages here and there in order to stay out of the drama that some people just cannot help but start and be a part of.
I hope your not refferring to me as I am new and you seem to have been around for a long while.
I wasnt trying to start any drama I was just responding to something you had already posted. I thought that it was a healthy debate and was only attempting to add another line of thinking. Wasnt trying to piss in yer cornflakes. And I thought the links I posted might help show that I was only trying to discuss the issue instead of just arguing. Sorry
Post by elusiveboz on Nov 14, 2008 10:11:28 GMT -5
fresh, have you ever lived in mississippi ??
have you grown up here ???
let me say this there are some people in this state that believe the government owes them everything and that they shouldn't have to do anything but sit home and collect checks.. i have had several friends that did abuse the system...said thaqt it was owed to them because they were black...one friend a white boy collected welfare,unemployment and foodstamps for 6 years ...said if the blacks can do it he should be able to also... now unless you've known these folks down here and or been around them shut the F.U.C.K. UP
This word also has a underground meaning once you break it down. Let’s take “Bonn” for example and it actually turns into the word “Bone”. We all know gays use this word to describe the action of when they are fecal fisting their Cuban cabana boy at their sex bath house parties. Now let’s look at Roo, “Roo” is short for “Kangaroo”.So put the full true message together and you get“Bone a Kangaroo
let me say this there are some people in this state that believe the government owes them everything and that they shouldn't have to do anything but sit home and collect checks.. i have had several friends that did abuse the system...said thaqt it was owed to them because they were black...one friend a white boy collected welfare,unemployment and foodstamps for 6 years ...said if the blacks can do it he should be able to also... now unless you've known these folks down here and or been around them shut the F.U.C.K. UP
Why are you talking to me like that? Have I been disrespectful in anyway to anyone? Is this the general attitude of this site? Because if so then I can go ahead and peace out.
But to answer your questions... Yes I have lived in Mississippi, near Gulfport and lost most everything in Katrina so myself and my Aunt, Uncle, and cousins had to move. I lived there from 99-05. They went up north and I moved back to SC. A state that has more people on welfare than Mississippi(its in the links I posted).
But what does any of that have to do with what has been discussed? And why are you telling me to shut the fuck up?
the general attitude is about 180 in the other direction of this thread....
the general attitude of this thread was nice and peaceful discussion until I logged on thismorning and found that I was being personally attacked by someone that I thought was a friend. I think that is what smacked me in the face the most and caused me to lose my temper. Anyway - ya'll go back to your discussions
getfresh - thanks for the links - I'll check them out later when I get a chance - right now work is calling
Post by elusiveboz on Nov 14, 2008 10:43:08 GMT -5
fresh,the people of the coast are a different breed than in the center of the state.. all the people i have ever met from the coast are hard working and i do know a lot of folks down that way..my best friend and his mother lost there house in katrina ... sorry i told you to shut the quack up...but these folks here around thye central part of the state black and white alike can be sorry as hell.... like i said the majority of folks i know using the system abuse it... if you read what i posted yesterday about the little old man that collected welfare and foodstamps for 15 kids...13 of which turned out to be hunting dogs
This word also has a underground meaning once you break it down. Let’s take “Bonn” for example and it actually turns into the word “Bone”. We all know gays use this word to describe the action of when they are fecal fisting their Cuban cabana boy at their sex bath house parties. Now let’s look at Roo, “Roo” is short for “Kangaroo”.So put the full true message together and you get“Bone a Kangaroo
fresh,the people of the coast are a different breed than in the center of the state.. all the people i have ever met from the coast are hard working and i do know a lot of folks down that way..my best friend and his mother lost there house in katrina ... sorry i told you to shut the quack up...but these folks here around thye central part of the state black and white alike can be sorry as hell.... like i said the majority of folks i know using the system abuse it... if you read what i posted yesterday about the little old man that collected welfare and foodstamps for 15 kids...13 of which turned out to be hunting dogs
Well then maybe you should report some of these people that you know are abusing the system rather than assume everyone does.
And if you have friends that abuse the system then maybe its time to think about changing friends.
But dont get jaded and look down on everyone that uses welfare because of some of the people you know that live in one part of the state. And I am not saying that you are or do look down on everyone, I am just saying dont. I can see how it would be easy to get burnt out because of the people you see around you and to start and assume that everyone else in the state would be that way as well.